Paul Furiga: Standing Apart in a Field of Sameness

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Paul Furiga discuss:

  • Sharing your Story with the decision makers.
  • Understanding your Story, not just your story.
  • Where to start in understanding what your Story is about.
  • How your Story affects your marketing and business development.

Key Takeaways:

  • The most important marketing asset an attorney owns, a law firm owns, is their story – the one thing that really sets them apart.
  • Partner with those who can reliably and accurately share your unique story to help you drive your business.
  • Your deep expertise is important, but it needs to be married with your Story.
  • The new technologies being used and sharing your story will allow you to recruit outside of areas you had previously considered.

“The big s Story is just that, because it answers four fundamental questions that stand the test of time. Those questions are: why would somebody buy from you ? Work for you? Invest in you? Partner with you in the legal field?” —  Paul Furiga

Connect with Paul Furiga:  





Reference: Simon Sinek TedX Talk:

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Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.



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Narrator, Paul Furiga, Steve Fretzin, Jordan Ostroff


Paul Furiga  [00:00]

Why would somebody buy from you work for you invest in you and partner with you in the legal field? Why would a client hire you? If you’ve got a firm of any size, small, medium or large? Why would somebody come to work for you? Right?


Narrator  [00:20]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer, coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.


Steve Fretzin  [00:42]

Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer, I hope you are having a terrific day. You probably used to be saying having a lovely day. But I changed it up today just to make sure I’m keeping you on your toes. Everything’s groovy here in Chicago, we, you know, look, we’re all trying to make it happen. And one way or the other, we just had the legal the ABA, legal tech show. And that was kind of fun. You know, hanging out with some of the people I’ve had on this show. And then people recognize me because they remember, you know, being on the show or listening to the show, but really good stuff. And if you’re a fan of B, that lawyer podcast, don’t be shy, tell your lawyer friends about it. let others know. Don’t be afraid to leave a kind comment or a five star review on Amazon or whatever your Google wherever you’re listening to this. So before I introduce my my guest, Paul today, I just want to take a second and thank our sponsors, legalese marketing, and money, Penny both helping me to get more business, build my brand, just generally, you know, make sure that I’m not missing anything off my website. So thank you to those guys. And then Paul was so kind to submit a quote for today. And it’s a good quote. Most of them are good, but this one’s really good. People don’t buy what you do. They buy, why you do it. And that’s a Simon Sinek quote. And Paul Perrigo, welcome to the show. And before we get into your background, why why did you submit that quote?


Paul Furiga  [02:04]

Well, Steve, first of all, thanks for having me. And why is a question that we learn to ask when we’re very small. Anybody who in the audience who has small children, why, why course I have a daughter, who’s a writer, she had asked for what reason? Because why not use four words, instead of you know, one? Maybe she was a future lawyer? I don’t know. But it’s the most fundamental question that we can ask. That’s why I picked that.


Steve Fretzin  [02:33]

And I think it also represents that people, what people actually care about, I mean, they don’t care about what you do. They care about why you do it. And I’ve heard another quote, you know, it’s about how do you make them feel? Right. So maybe the why is it driving the feeling? Right? Yeah. Okay. Very cool. So So Paul is the founder of word right. And he’s, he’s just literally 30 minutes before we got on air today, I blow open my mailbox, and boom, here’s his book, finding your capital S story. And then he shows me he got my book in the mail. So we’re book brothers now. Yes, we are awesome, awesome. And I can’t wait to read it. And you know, it’s interesting lawyers really do struggle with not only telling their story, but finding their unique differentiator in the marketplace. They’re, they’re loaded in a sea full of other lawyers doing the same types of things. And they’re, they really struggle with that. I know, we’re gonna get into the into the weeds on that in a minute. But do my audience a salad and give a little bit of your background? So we know what led you up to being on the show and writing the book and having this great business word. Right?


Paul Furiga  [03:39]

You got it, Steve. So I’ve had several careers in in my life. The first was in journalism. And I figured it out one time, over 20 years in journalism. I wrote about 10,000 stories and edited another 10,000 They covered everything from murderers to the White House. And, you know, that’s a lot of beginnings, middles, and ends, Steve and what you learn is you’re with people in the best moments in their lives, and the worst moments of their lives, and you really come to understand the arc of his story. for about 20 years now, I’ve been in the marketing agency business, I first was at catching public relations, which is the fifth largest PR firm in the world. And I worked with lots of great big companies, Alcoa, Bridgestone Firestone, Rutgers University Delta, and I could go on and on. It was like getting advanced degree and how to tell your story. When I started our firm two decades ago, that commitment to story that came from being in journalism, and came from being at a place like Kachin was baked into the foundation of everything we did. What we do at our firm is all about your story. We exist quite simply to help providers of complex services. Hello, are you a lawyer, and you provide complex services I better share their story with the decision makers who hire them. And I think a theme for our time, in this episode, Steve is going to be that most people who hire lawyers really don’t understand what they do.


Steve Fretzin  [05:14]

Yeah. And then lawyers try to explain to them what they do. And that just maybe gets makes things worse.


Paul Furiga  [05:18]

Absolutely. So, so so


Steve Fretzin  [05:22]

it’s not necessarily about dumbing things down, I think it’s about about how we how we tell a story, how we differentiate ourselves how we come across authentically. And it’s just a challenge for people to do that. So why, why do you think lawyers are so challenged by sharing their story, telling their story and coming up with something unique about themselves, that’s going to resonate with an audience. Maybe they’re the general counsel’s of the world that are CEOs of the world, the people that they’re targeting, or just consumers? I mean, people that get in accidents and the divorces, things like that, right?


Paul Furiga  [05:57]

If they’re in family law, or if they’re representing plaintiffs in the case, everything that a lawyer learns in their training is about certificate certifying themselves in obtaining credential Steve. So the ultimate, of course, is taking the bar exam early in your career. And getting that that license that says, I’m an attorney, right? So it’s a quest for an appropriate kind of sameness, if you will, which is the opposite of differentiation, right? And throughout their careers, lawyers, and frequently, and most lawyers work in firms of some size, small, medium, or large, the firm culture is driven towards obtaining more degrees of sameness. I’m certified to do this, I can do this in bankruptcy, I can do that in real estate, you get continuing legal education credits, right. So what’s happening here is, in order to get the work that a lawyer really wants to get, they need all that. And believe me, I respect all that. But that’s not what people are looking for when they’re hiring an attorney. Because if you’re in the conversation to be hired, you have to have those certifications. You got to have that law degree, the table stakes. It’s exactly right. I say that all the time. See, those are the table stakes. So how do you set yourself apart in our philosophy at our firm, which led me to write the book, finding your capitalist story, while your story drives your brand, is the most important marketing asset an attorney owns a law firm owns is their story is the one thing that really sets them apart.


Steve Fretzin  [07:54]

Yeah. And so that’s a great segue to answer the question, right? So a lawyer has a story. Yeah, maybe it’s even a good story. But what separates a story from a capital S story as you put it, because that’s the title of your book. And that’s kind of your jam. That’s what you’re into. So what what makes the capitalist story better or more effective than a traditional


Paul Furiga  [08:15]

story? So if you think back to the way most of us consume news, and the old days, those of a certain age actually read a new thing called a newspaper that was on paper. The saying used to be today’s news is tomorrow’s birdcage live, right. Well, on social media. I mean, most people can’t remember what they read in their social media feed yesterday. Right? So those are the smallest stories, the the biggest story, the capitalist story is just that, because it answers four fundamental questions that stand the test of time. And those questions are, why would somebody buy from you work for you invest in you, and partner with you in the legal field? Why would a client hire you? If you got a firm of any size, small, medium or large? Why would somebody come to work for you? Right? The investing piece is not always as relevant in the legal field. But the partnering pieces?


Steve Fretzin  [09:19]

I don’t know about that. I think partnering Yeah, investing. I don’t think people understand that, that when you hire a lawyer, it is an investment because you’re investing in that risk protection. You’re investing in the litigation to limit the exposure. So I think all four really rang true. And again, in some areas, legal, maybe less so than others, but I totally get it. I totally get it.


Paul Furiga  [09:45]

Yeah, I think about the partnering in particular because the way so many attorneys drive their business is through networking and referrals. They have to have those relationships. And if somebody who might be a highly skilled professional, say an accountant As an estate planner, you know, you think about a lot of folks who work with lawyers on a daily basis, but are not lawyers themselves. If they can’t reliably and accurately share your unique story to help you drive your business? Well, then that’s a missed opportunity. Yeah. So it


Steve Fretzin  [10:18]

sounds like that answering those questions really helps to define the capitalist story and but I don’t know that it’s something sometimes like we’re we’re in it, right? Like I’m in my business, if I had to bring in experts to help me come up with be that lawyer, they say they question my clients, they looked at the industry, they, they went through, and I just I was too close to it to understand that my brand was be that lawyer, it took some professionals to come in and help me so it’s it’s not that unusual that lawyers struggle with coming up with with their s capitalist story. But what what are some things that they can do? What are what are some steps that they can take? And I know, there’s the four questions, but what are the steps they can take to say, alright, so I need to do this, I want to do this, and maybe I want to try it on my own. Maybe I want to call Paul have him come in and help the firm helped me. But give giveaway, giveaway, some some some of the goodies.


Paul Furiga  [11:14]

So Steve, you know this because you talk about this all the time, and it’s in your books, start with talking to your clients, your best clients understand why it is that you have long term relationships with some of your clients understand why certain people in your client set or your network refer you over and over again. Because when they’re referring you that when they’re recommending you, when they’re hiring you, they’re not saying, you know, this person went to the Loyola College of Law. So therefore, I gotta hire that person. It’s about who you are, as an attorney and member of the bar or your firm, it’s back to that unique asset that you own your story. So that’ll help you. The other thing is, you know, in terms, so that’s the external piece of it, Steve, the internal piece of it is, I know very few attorneys, who became attorneys, because they wanted to regale people at cocktail parties with case citations. Right? Either as a


Steve Fretzin  [12:23]

talking about I thought that that’s the best part. I want to hear I want to hear all of them right now. Nothing else going on in my life,


Paul Furiga  [12:30]

my friends who’ve been there, your time and indentured servitude and large firms, where they worked 80 hours a week, in windowless airless rooms. Of course, we don’t do that as much anymore because of COVID and technology. But there used to be these things called law libraries. And if you wanted to find the associates, you’d go in there, you know, late at night, and there they were pounding away. My point is, that’s not the attractive part of being being a lawyer. There, there, there is a passion that drives people to become members of the bar. And so for yourself, connecting internally, with what that is for you. And externally, with those who know you best, your clients, your network, your referral sources, should help you start that process of identifying your unique, compelling and memorable story.


Steve Fretzin  [13:23]

So is it is it more about the why? Or is it to some degree about something that makes that lawyer unique in the space? So obviously, lawyers have been looking at niching down and owning an industry owning a particular niche of a niche with it. So it’s not just litigation, it’s labor and employment litigation, not only as a labor and employment litigation, you know, maybe there are specific industries like the hospitality industry. So this is sort of what’s been defining how a lawyer is building a brand more so than maybe the why but how did that how do they intertwine or interconnect?


Paul Furiga  [14:00]

Well, they very much do interconnect. In our in our work. We we use sociology, biology and psychology to understand the storytelling process. Simply put, Steve, there’s a lot of research a lot of history that shows that human beings and our minds we tell the same stories over and over again, those are known as archetypal stories. If I say to you, that I’m representing a new client, and it’s a David and Goliath story, and a patent case, you don’t need to be a biblical scholar to know that it’s the underdog. Right? So that’s half the equation. And then your point is extremely valid, an archetypal story plus the specifics of what it is that you did, and today with the way the law is evolving, thanks to technology, it you, you really can’t get business just by being in the niche of the niche of the niche. There’s rare Are we just one guy or one gal? Who is the expert? Now there might be a small community of 10 or 20 or 30. It may or


Steve Fretzin  [15:10]

may be based on location exact someone in Chicago that also competes with someone in Cleveland, but not so much because they’re focusing on an area. And then now we’re even niching down further by geographics.


Paul Furiga  [15:22]

Right, right. So you know, it’s kind of like, I think about, like, when I go see the eye doctor, you know, and they’re having me look at the eye chart, and they’re messing around with, you know, they change the lens. Now, how about this now, how about that. So these are all factors in that process, right. So definitely, your expertise, your very deep expertise is a part of the equation that has to be married with your story.


Jordan Ostroff  [15:50]

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Steve Fretzin  [16:41]

okay, so you’ve got a story of of your how you built your practice, how you how you work with clients, or whatever the story might be, intertwining then with the niche, intertwining with your geography, intertwining with, you know, your, you know, your why, you know, why are you bothering to practice this kind of law? So, and I hope I’m not putting you on the spot, but I kind of am. Long dramatic pause, then, what’s an example like, you’ve worked with lawyers for years. So what would be an example of and you’d have to give a name unless you want to, but like a lawyer that you work with that had essentially no story, or no ass right capital last year. And now that lawyer has the capital S and is using and utilizing that story on the website, LinkedIn talking about presenting the way clients, you know, perceive or believe in that individual? Do you have a you have a one that just stands out? Yeah,


Paul Furiga  [17:39]

I’m worried. So we’re in the midst of working with a firm right now. So in the United States, and I know a lot of your audiences in the United States can go to pretty, pretty much any major city, in the legal field, Business Litigation is going to look like this, there’s going to be three or four well known national brand names that have a presence in the city, probably not always the same. But you know, out of the top 10 firms for your form will be there. And then this is gonna be this huge chunk of mid sized law firms, you know, maybe 50 to 100 lawyers, and their websites all say the same dang thing. They practice in the same areas, it’s impossible to tell them apart. Those are the kinds of firms that we typically work with, because they really do have a story. They just don’t know it yet. The firm that we’re in the process of working with right now 100 year old, firm, 75 attorneys focused on the areas of law I just described. When we started working with him, Steve, they said, Look, our best business is working with inside counsel, General Counsel in C suite leadership on legal matters that they’ve never dealt with before, when they get a legal matter where they say to themselves, Oh, we’ve never dealt with this before. What are we going to do? They want to be the first call, this firm wants to be the first call. So we went through our process that’s described in the book. And we identified an archetype that we called legal path fine. Because, you know, if you’re a business law client, and you come across a legal problem you’ve never dealt with before. You don’t want to step on the landmines. You want to work with somebody who’s been there before and done that before. So that is the archetypal story that we’re working with, for them.


Steve Fretzin  [19:32]

And then does the imagery on their website and the way that they talk their infomercials, everything that has to align and fighter, they can’t they can’t go in halfway. Right.


Paul Furiga  [19:43]

That is so true. And you know, Steve, you discuss this in your most recent book, legal business development. You know, I’m in the midst of working on a talk right now, where I’ve got the about description from three different law firms, and I’m going to challenge the audience to pick the law firms that they Can’t. That’s great. It’s, you know, just


Steve Fretzin  [20:03]

how are these different?


Paul Furiga  [20:05]

They’re not, we’re not, it’s, and not only are they not different, they also don’t say what any one of these three firms does, it’s impossible to tell. So, you know, to your point, once you know what your story is, as a firm, or as an individual practitioner that needs to infuse your marketing and business development, that’s how people are going to remember you.


Steve Fretzin  [20:28]

Well, this is a shift, because I think in the in the old days, and by old days, I mean, 10 years ago, or 20 years ago, it was just about professionalism. Can we look on our website professional? Can we can we show that we’re, you know, dressed up, and we’re standing in front of buildings, and we look like we can handle whatever’s coming our way. And now, that sort of outdated, antiquated, so we want to move to what’s going to stand out what’s gonna make it unique? What’s gonna, what’s gonna give someone a feeling about it, that’s going to drive their drive their belief may be in that we’re great, not just the visual of, you know, three white guys in front of a, you know, a tall building.


Paul Furiga  [21:08]

Exactly, exactly. And, you know, there are a lot of reasons for that, Steve, why it’s been like that. But you know, you start with that, not too long ago, lawyers weren’t able to advertise their services. And you know, so things have kind of moved in a fashion over the last three or four decades or so. And this is where we are now,


Steve Fretzin  [21:27]

let me let me add something to this as well, because we are we are still in this great resignation that is occurring. And I’m talking to lawyers, obviously, all day, every day. And the hits keep coming. I mean, that the business is there for many of them. But but they’re also like, desperate for for, for talent and all this. Yeah. And one of the things that I find interesting is that many of these law firms that are trying to recruit talent and bring over laterals, and woo people over, don’t have a story, they don’t have a cause or purpose. They’re just another law firm, it’s just a business that’s set up to handle the law. How important is it today, maybe more than ever, for law firms to really consider their story, their purpose, as a way of driving culture as a way of driving interest from these laterals that they can work for are a group that has a common common direction or a direction that that that looks good to go.


Paul Furiga  [22:21]

It’s critical. As knowledge workers, one of the things we’re seeing with our law firm clients, Steve, is that, you know, work can be done at distance, there’s a firm we’re working with right now. And they’re in a major city, in their state. And they had some some talent gaps. And by sharing their story, they were able to recruit some talent in smaller cities in the state, people who didn’t necessarily want to, you know, relocate. But if, you know, a trial matter, or a big conference required, they could, you know, in a couple of hours be in the city, right? for that. And, I mean, let’s face it, pretty much everybody in the audience knows, most of the work is done at distance these days. We’re on video, email, the internet, right? All all court filings are electronic, practically everywhere in the United States. So I mean, this is the way things are done. And to your point, in that environment. That’s the story of the firm that’s going to make the difference. What is the culture like, is story is the first thing that people are going to come to know about your culture, especially if as the legal field evolves, we’re seeing what we just talked about, the people are working at distance, more often, maybe if it’s hybrid, then in the past, right, and maybe they’re working at distance, you know, 75 or 80% of the time, like the story I just shared about that one fun.


Steve Fretzin  [23:47]

It just just I just curious for about for myself, I mean, I’ve got a number of different angles and stories about how I sort of came to be and working in this industry. And I also have this tagline be that lawyer, which is for many, you know, the I want to be the lawyer that everyone’s talking about at the watercooler back when there was a water cooler I want to be the one that everyone knows is like the top Rainmaker at the firm, that’s be that lawyer, it’s like, Stop, you know, just billing hours and just doing the minimum, let’s, let’s go out and build a book and build your future. But then I’ve got all these stories from plane crash survivor to how I got pulled into the industry and kind of where I am today, as sort of a guy who, you know, I’ve limited capacity. So, you know, my whole gig is like, How can I add value in the industry, knowing that out of the million plus lawyers in the US, you know, I’m gonna work with 30, you know, 30 or 40 a year, and that’s kind of it, which is great. I mean, I’m loving the 3040. But I also don’t want to I want to impact the industry, like I want the industry to change because I’m adding, you know, business development and other topics into it, so that people can figure this stuff out.


Paul Furiga  [24:55]

Right, right. So two things about stories, even if you’re not a great writer. either and you know, most lawyers, they have to read. Books have chapters, right? So, you know, Steve, this story that you’ve lived in your life, you’ve had many chapters, right? So that’s great. You’re the sum total today, of everywhere and everything you’ve ever done, right?


Steve Fretzin  [25:21]

And you ever take for it four to six years in, in and after college, we won’t call it those, I just, I’ll just discount right off the bat, we might resemble that remote. I’m just hoping there’s no pictures or videos available. That’s all I’m saying. I’ll leave


Paul Furiga  [25:33]

that up. There weren’t that many pictures, so that we didn’t have social media back then? Hey, got it. Yeah, you know, the other thing is, though, joking aside social media, there are way more ways to share your story today. And to have an impact on an industry than than ever before. You know, one of the things we’ve done with some of our law firm clients, the the idea of present presenting through webinars, is just grown exponentially, it’s become a lot more comfortable to deliver thought leadership authority, leadership at distance. And that can really up the game maximize the opportunity for somebody who lives at least for part of their life from the billable hour, if you don’t have to travel. Now, granted, there’s some things you missed by not being in person with people. Right. But if, you know, I, one person is, you know, I knocked out two conferences in one day, two different timezones. You know, maybe not everybody wants to do that, for that person. That was right. It’s possible today to do those kinds of things, YouTube channels, videos, there’s a lot of opportunities in the legal field that didn’t exist even five years ago.


Steve Fretzin  [26:46]

Well, it sounds like you know, getting the story aligned with your mission and the direction you’re taking your firm. And then how do you get it out? Right, then it’s about messaging and getting it out there. So so the branding and the marketing working together, maybe in tangent than with the business development, because you know, networking, somebody says, Hey, Paul, tell me about yourself. And then you just wing it, and you just say, whatever. Yeah, you know, I’ve got five kids, and they’re living through you, okay. But, again, it’s not like something structured that’s going to actually get someone’s either attention, or get them to buy in or get them to ask questions, things that are going to really help with that interaction. So I think, you know, that’s, that’s where what you’re doing can help on so many different levels, that lawyers just start thinking, for the most part, aren’t thinking that way. They’re just kind of business as usual, just keep cranking in those hours, and not really considering their story, the brand, etc.


Paul Furiga  [27:38]

Yeah, well, you know, it’s interesting, Steve, because in terms of practicing in your area of law, you’re a strategic thinker. A lawyer is a strategic thinker, right? You just don’t walk into court one day to represent your client. And you got to think about your story the same way. There’s three words I used to describe, describe our process, which is called Story crafting, uncover, develop in share. So most of what we see, no matter our profession, it’s true for lawyers too. Is the share part. Am I on social media or not? What’s my website look like? Well, that’s the third step in the process. First of all, you got to uncover your story. And then you have to, to your point, develop a plan to share that story. You know, not everybody belongs on social media, right? So don’t just start a Facebook page or start trying to improve your LinkedIn when maybe that’s not how you get business, you need a plan. So it’s uncover, develop, and then share your story in. And while lawyers don’t think about this, frequently, in terms of marketing their own expertise, if they think about it, the way they would approach their work, the way they would represent a client, the way they would strategize on a matter, it might be a little bit more easy for them to think about the the kind of the steps in the discipline that go into this. Yeah,


Steve Fretzin  [29:09]

well, I think we’re gonna wrap up on that pollinate again, just so appreciate your wisdom and advice. And in coming on the show and sharing that. Before we wrap up formally, though, I do have a new segment, everybody. It’s called Game Changing books, or book in this case. So Paul, you hadn’t set a quote at the beginning or send me a quote at the beginning. And the book that you are, that you submitted as sort of like your, like, number one favorite book is also Simon Sinek book. It’s a start with y, which kind of falls right into line with everything. You’ve kind of been sharing. What why that book,


Paul Furiga  [29:43]

because just a real quick story. He gave a TED Talk and it was a TEDx talk, like in 2009. And this was the name of the talk. And it just blew up. Maybe maybe we can put the link in the show notes. Yeah. It led him to write this book is phenomenal. But he talked about companies like Apple. And he talked about why the Wright brothers were the first to succeed at flight and other people who had more money and resources did he really crystallizes the importance of understanding what gets you out of bed in the morning every day, and drives you to do the great things that you do? versus what you do? And that comes back to that, quote, people don’t buy what you do they buy why you do. And so think about


Steve Fretzin  [30:29]

that. If you’re if you’re an attorney, and you’re just kind of going through the motions every day, that how much happier Could you be? How much more successful Could you be in your profession in your career, if you had a real cause or real, why to get up every day? I know I do. And so I, I shoot out of bed early in the morning, and I’m like, I’m like, shot out of a cannon. And I have, you know, a big beautiful day where I get to do podcasts, and I get to work with clients and help them solve problems and meet new people and new prospective clients. I mean, every day, it’s just, it’s fun. It’s fun. And it’s interesting. And I think it’s because I have a really good why. So anyway, everybody listen to Paul, he’s got some some great nuggets he shared. And if people want to reach out to you, Paul, what’s the best way for them to find you?


Paul Furiga  [31:16]

Give you two URLs, www dot capital S knows Bryce, and our firm website, word, right forward slash story crafting. Those two URLs will get you to lots of great content sample chapter, the book, links to the book, and the work that we do for our clients.


Steve Fretzin  [31:38]

Yep. And that’s all in the show notes, everybody. So if you need the details, that’s where they are. Paul, thanks so much, man. I appreciate I know you and I are going to be keeping in touch we’re gonna be doing some stuff together moving forward. And just again, you know really, really great having you.


Paul Furiga  [31:52]

Thanks so much for having me Steve and great to be with your audience. Lots of great smart people who deserve to share their story


Steve Fretzin  [31:59]

as we go i love it and Hey, everybody, thanks for spending some time with Paul and I today hopefully, you know I’ve got my page notes how about you hope so you know this is an opportunity for you to pick up something some nugget that is going to help you figure out your why whether it’s talking to clients whether it’s looking at you know uncovered develop, share, I mean, I you know, just reading all the stuff I have here is this is what it’s all about when I talk about be that lawyer someone who’s confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker, knowing your why and having that story is a big part of it. So listen, take care be safe be well, we’ll talk again soon.


Narrator  [32:37]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes