In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Adam Greco discuss:
- Having the data in order to know how to improve.
- Evolution of web (now digital) analytics.
- The analytics you want to track on your website.
- Working with someone best understanding your analytics.
Key Takeaways:
- Digital analytics is not digital advertising, but digital analytics can be used to understand how your digital advertising is working.
- Advertising on LinkedIn is becoming more common as it can be more targeted to specifically who you are trying to reach.
- Analytics and testing can be used to gain more tract and to get more people to take the action you want them to take.
- If you have the right web developer, they can add a couple of lines of code on your website to make it easy to pull the analytic information.
“Every click that people make is a way that they’re communicating to you, as a firm, what they’re interested in.” — Adam Greco
Connect with Adam Greco:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamgreco/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/adamgreco
Blog: https://amplitude.com/blog/author/adam-greco
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Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
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Email: Steve@Fretzin.com
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Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
lawyers, website, people, law firm, analytics, ads, firm, digital advertising, track, companies, digital, form, business, spend, listening, steve, mobile app, marketing, fill, helps
SPEAKERS
Adam Greco, Narrator, Steve Fretzin
Adam Greco [00:00]
Every click that people make is a way that they’re communicating to you as a firm what they’re interested in.
Narrator [00:12]
You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Jeff episode, your host, author and lawyer, coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin [00:34]
Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I am Steve Fretzin. If you’ve haven’t heard the show before, this is all about helping you to be your best self be your best lawyer marketing, business development, time management, health, wellness, you name it, I’ve got the guest, we’re 200 shows plus at this point, and so if you haven’t heard a show before, check it out. You know, and if you have great, keep listening, don’t be afraid to like us thumbs up us. Share with whomever, whatever, you know, digital, you know, platform you’re listening to this on, you know, give us a nice, a nice review. Appreciate it. And let’s keep things rolling along. I’ve got one of my oldest hope it’s the oldest or one of the oldest friends I’ve ever had in my lifetime and 52 years waiting in the wings. How’re you doing, Adam? I’m good. Glad to be here. All right. All right, we’re going to euro euro euro sort of a weird guest for me to have on the show to some degree because we just had to work out like the angle but I think we’ve got it totally figured out and I’m excited about it. I want to take a moment to thank my sponsors, legalese marketing and money penny, two terrific partners, not only for me, but most importantly for you, the lawyer, the law firm, that needs to make sure that you’re not only answering phones with money, Penny, but that you’re marketing yourself and staying up as a recession is bound to hit your marketing is generating traffic. And that might be a great lead in for you, Adam, because you are a superstar. I’m not gonna say the godfather of digital analytics, but but we could call you that you’ve been doing this a lot. How long? Have you been doing this stuff?
[02:07]
Yeah, probably about the past 2530 years now. Pretty much most of my career.
Steve Fretzin [02:13]
Yeah. You’re old like me, man. We go back to kindergarten or first grade. What’s the matter? I moved, moved in your neighborhood in first grade. Okay. And your earliest memory is of I think my mom chasing you around a parking lot or playground or something trying to get you in the car.
[02:29]
Yeah, my first memory of Steve Fretzin is a new kid at school. And we just moved to a new house. My mom was busy. And somehow I get Steve Fretzin coming up to me and saying, Hey, are you Adam? Yes. My mom is supposed to drive you home today. So get in the car. And I’d always been told if someone tells you to get in a car. You know, you don’t do it. So I took off. And then I was I was pretty fast back then. And I remember you and your mom like driving and circling around the town of Highland Park to try to find me and eventually found me probably crying on a curb somewhere.
Steve Fretzin [03:02]
Oh my god.
[03:03]
I didn’t know because I didn’t know where I lived at that point. Yeah, yeah.
Steve Fretzin [03:09]
Yeah, if we only had some candy, we might have got you in that car. Right? That’s yeah, for sure. At least that’s the that’s the model of how you take a hostage or how you take you know, you kidnap somebody. So yeah. Wow. That’s really funny. And then years later in high school, I think we played a lot of soccer together. And then I think we took my my dad’s car out and we got busted on that. For some reason. We I just had my dad on the show. And he actually checked he had a flat tire and he had the spare on the donut and a check the mileage so that my sister wouldn’t drive the car think I was 15. We were 15 at the time. And you and I took the car out and tooled all around our neighborhood, my son’s not going to hear he’s 15 he’s not going to hear this episode. So I don’t have to worry about him like following in my footsteps. But we made it back without a problem and totally scot free. And then my dad walked up and he’s like, do you take the car out? I don’t know. I just I just totally like admitted to it because he just totally busted me. And it was because he had checked the mileage hit my sister up. She didn’t do it. So anyway, he was an astute lawyer, you know, but he was a very astute lawyer. And when he wasn’t questioning about that he was grilling me about other things in my life. But we had quite a childhood together and some really fun times. So alright, so the reason I mentioned that you’re a little bit of an outsider coming to this show, and I think you and I had to figure out like where the connection is, but there’s actually a tremendous connection in the sense that lawyers are continually looking for ways to get business and do better in bringing in clients, especially the big firm lawyers, you know, they firms, they need to understand consumer behavior and how people are thinking about using their services in your quote that you submit it to me is you can’t improve what you don’t track and I think that’s a good lead in to so why why that quote and then let’s lead into your background in digital analytics.
[04:55]
Yeah, so and I was also a little nervous about coming out here because I don’t work with them. lawyers that often you know, but just to let you know, kind of my background. So the last 2025 years, I’ve worked in digital analytics and in digital analytics is really like tracking how people are using digital properties that could be a website or a mobile app, I worked for one of the leading vendors that ended up getting acquired. And basically every website that you go to that anyone goes to, there’s code on the website put by people like me to basically see where are you clicking? Where are you going? What are you doing? And basically, the people who invest in some companies spend millions of dollars on this technology, because they want to figure out how do we improve conversion? How do we get new customers? How do we get someone who comes from digital advertising and so on. But you know, what’s interesting is the law profession from what I’ve learned from you, is that it’s really, you know, traditionally kind of more of an analogue business where, you know, it’s very relationship driven. I think a lot of lawyers get customers through, you know, techniques that you help them and so on. But it still is sales, you still have to market yourself is just that if you’re very different as a lawyer than say BestBuy, you know, bestbuy.com is the majority of the sales that they have. And so they have to understand how are they doing it, it’s like, if you had a store for Best Buy, there’s someone who’s looking at how people are walking through the store and optimizing it, the same thing happens digitally, it’s just it’s a website. So that’s kind of the world that I’m in is helping companies to get better. I work for a new company now called amplitude. And we actually started in Mobile App Analytics. So all those apps you use, like DoorDash is a customer of ours, peloton is a customer of ours. So like every time you’re on a peloton bike, there’s someone who’s trying to understand what are you doing? How do they get you to come back and exercise the next day and so on. And they’re all using data for that. And as you know, you know, data is huge. And so my quote is, you know, you really can’t improve things if you don’t actually have the data behind it to understand, do I suck right now? Am I doing okay? How do I get more people to do things that I want them to do?
Steve Fretzin [07:09]
Yeah. And honestly, the people listening to this show, are scratching their heads, because they may never have thought about asking their web person or anyone for information about how their website is performing. Now, they may know that it’s performing because they’re getting forms filled out, and they’re getting leads through it. But that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s being optimized, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s, it’s, it’s really performing at an optimal level. So let’s, let’s, we’re gonna get into that. But I want you to take it back a step and talk about the evolution of digital analytics, because I think it used to be called web analytics, and it changed to digital analytics. So talk about that and a little bit, and then I’ve got a more specific question once we get past it.
[07:52]
Yeah. So here’s how our industry has started. So way back when, when the internet first came about, in the old days, no one had a website. And then suddenly, somewhere in the early 2000s, everyone decided we need to have a website. And you know, for the lawyers who listen to this, like, I’m sure at some point, their firms said, What’s a website, and then all of a sudden, the next year, they’re like, We have to have a website, because our and by
Steve Fretzin [08:15]
the way, Adam, some of them have the same website from 2000, they might see I see my post them up on my screen ago, it takes up like this, like, I’m shaping out, like, you know, four inches of a 20 inch screen. And that’s their website, it’s still that old model.
[08:28]
Yeah. And so once websites were there, the reason that digital analytics really took off is because people started buying things like Google keywords and putting display ads out there. But they needed to have somewhere for them to go. And so if they bought a Google keyword, then someone would click on it, they would come to the website, they would learn a little bit about the firm. And honestly, in the first couple of years, it was like those old PDF brochures that every law firm probably had, basically up as a file on a website as a PDF. But then someone said, you know, what, what if we give them a form to fill out, and that way they can reach out to us, even if it’s after business hours, at their convenience, and then a form would get filled out, and then someone would call them? Eventually, I’m sure most of your lawyer clients and people listening this probably have for every lawyer, there’s probably a page on the website where they have like a profile about their history so they could learn about their credentials. And then eventually, what happened is people started writing blogs, and a lot of companies like maybe some of your lawyers do this, where they write articles or blogs to kind of show thought leadership. And basically what started as a way to track how many people were clicking on ads evolved into well, let’s see which popular which lawyer at our firm is the one that people are looking at the most, which blog posts are people looking at? What are we doing on our website that’s getting people to fill out a form. And then that was all web analytics. Now the reason it turned into digital analytics is probably not for lawyers, but for a lot of companies. The world is moved to mobile apps and You can’t call doing analytics on a mobile app web analytics. So our industry changed the term from web analytics to digital analytics, because websites and mobile apps are all digital. So that’s why we became a little more all encompassing. And nowadays, for many companies who have a website and a mobile app, the mobile app traffic is starting to surpass the website traffic. So if you’re like Walmart, more people are actually buying things from Walmart’s mobile app than they are going to walmart.com. And that trend, continuing to take off. And I’m
Steve Fretzin [10:31]
doing that with Amazon, I’m on Amazon, almost every day, and I’m on my phone ordering stuff. And they’ve made it so quick and easy to do it. And then the website, you know, maybe I’ll just do that if I have to, you know, it’s something that’s gonna be a little bit more involved or whatever. But so I totally get that the mobile machine is the function. And so you mentioned earlier that that there are some lawyers and others that that that plays ads, right, we do ads on Google, and we do ads on various different websites as a way to drive traffic to our website to convert and to get business. What’s the difference between digital analytics and digital ads? Yeah,
[11:10]
good question. So digital advertising is basically anytime you buy a Google keyword, or if you’re watching like a YouTube video, and there’s like a roll ad that goes for maybe 30 seconds. That’s all digital advertising. And most of that is run by Google, they have kind of a monopoly here, Facebook is the other big player, people are starting to advertise on tick tock. And basically, what you’re doing is you’re saying, I’m going to spend $1 $2, whatever it is per click, so that if someone searches on a search engine, they’ll find me. And you know, it’s those ads at the top that are sponsored. There’s a whole industry of people, it’s called Search Engine Optimization, which are trying to get their website so that they show up right underneath those paid results. But if you’re in a video ad, someone clicks on video ad come to your site, but the goal is to figure out of all the people who are coming to my website, and I know how much I’m spending, is it worth it? Because no law firm wants to waste a bunch of money. So especially if you’d like you might be like a personal injury lawyer, you might have to pay five bucks for someone just to click on your ad. Now what you want to do is quantify Hey, last week, we spent $5,000, on digital advertising, and we got 13 people to fill out a form on our website. So what you basically do is you divide that and all this happens in the digital analytics product, you would divide 13 by 5000, figure out what is your cost per lead? And then you’d later figure out do those leads turn into customers? And if you get a million dollar customer like yeah, then that $5 Seems really cheap. But if you’re getting no customers, then you could literally sink 60, you know, $70,000 into digital advertising get nothing from it. But the other thing, that’s the difference between analytics and advertising is I’m sure many of your, your listeners have had that thing where they go and they they look for a product on a website, and then that product follows them all around the internet, no matter if they go to CNN, they see the shoes, they see this. That’s really digital advertising. That’s not what I do. I’m more helping companies make their own websites and apps better. But there are a whole host of companies out there ad agencies that will literally track you to a deserted island. If you ever look at a pair of shoes, every website you go to they’ll follow. And lawyers might like that because they want to always be in the face until someone actually converts. legalese marketing is not your traditional marketing vendor. Instead, we’re a true fractional cmo that helps you save time and spend your money the right way to build a practice of your dreams. We help through the entire process from customizing your intake system to driving leads, and even getting more reviews afterwards, schedule your free call at legalese marketing.com.
Steve Fretzin [13:52]
Hey Steph, tell everyone what mani pedi does for law firms
[13:56]
where the call handling and live chat experts and Moneypenny receptionist can ensure that your calls are directed to the right person seamlessly saving you time and money. Steve, did you know that 69% of people don’t like to leave a voicemail.
Steve Fretzin [14:10]
I did not know that. That’s a lot of business going away right there. Let’s cut to the chase. What are you prepared to do for my listeners?
[14:16]
We’re offering an exclusive two week free trial. If you’re interested in hearing more, you can call me directly on 470-534-8846. I mentioned that you’ve heard this ad on Steve’s podcast.
Steve Fretzin [14:30]
Very cool, thanks. I used to do a ton of that. And I’d walk around wherever I was and people that knew me. We’d be like, You’re everywhere. I go to Dick’s Sporting Goods here there. I go to LinkedIn, you’re there, et cetera, et cetera. And I stopped doing it I think because it’s expensive. Now it used to be super cheap. And like it was basically free unless somebody clicks something and now I think they’ve changed that. So it’s it’s more but I didn’t I did enjoy that for a little while and I don’t know if I need to bring that back or not. But
[14:57]
it helps you with your branding and also LinkedIn has become Have a really big place to advertise. That’s where I’ve had the most success because you can be much more targeted. And what’s interesting is a law firm could say, Listen, if we do an ad on LinkedIn, then the odds are the people who will see those ads will be lawyers. And you can even specify, I only want, you know, if you’re trying to recruit a lawyer, you could do that. Or if you’re looking, if you specialize in automotive or law, then you could just really target automotive people on LinkedIn. So that’s the one that I think could be the most targeted.
Steve Fretzin [15:29]
Yeah, and I think if we, if we just walked back to websites for a minute, I think the biggest misstep that lawyers make with their websites, and this is happening, probably more at the mid market, small firm level, I would hope that the big firms are looking at this the same way Best Buy does and in peloton that they’re not looking at the data, they’re not asking for the data, they’re not looking at the data, and they’re not evaluating it to make changes. So their website just is, and it stays and they let it ride for a long period of time eventually, so we got to redo it or whatever. What should they be looking for in in asking their web. So they’re listening to this now and they’re saying, I need to go back to my web guy or gal, and I need to hit them up. Because they’re not setting me up on Google Analytics. They’re not setting me up to understand the data. And I think that’s a big mis mistake that lawyers and law firms are making.
[16:20]
Yeah, and I think a lot of firms would they do is they’ll just put like the bare minimum out there like a ghost though Google Analytics out there, but it’s just tracking how many pages are viewed. So a couple ideas that I would give you is, first of all, keep in mind that the number of people who land on your homepage could be a really interesting what we call a KPI key performance indicator of your your firm’s brand. And that’s something that you might want to track over time. Because if you’re doing radio spots, if you’re doing TV advertising, ultimately, if people are hearing you, even if it’s just word of mouth, if you’re not steadily seeing an increase of traffic, your homepage, then that’s like a good barometer of like, do people are people talking about you? Do they know about you? Are they looking you up, it’s kind of like the old yellow pages, then I would make sure that you you have an implementation of analytics that at the bare minimum is tracking, if you let’s say you have five service offerings as a law firm, you should definitely track that and call that something like service offering view and then track a dimension, which is what is the name of that offering that will let you see which of your offerings are the most popular, and see if that ever changes. If all of a sudden people start looking at one that used to be number three, and that shoots up to number one, like every click that people make is a way that they’re communicating to you as a firm what they’re interested in. So that would be another thing that’s really easy to do, just see which of your services are most popular, maybe even that helps you to decide, maybe we should kill off on these services. Because no one’s interested in that. I also, I would also make sure that you have an identifier for every lawyer, because you probably want to see which of your lawyers are the most popular, like viewed, because that’s a good indicator of like, you don’t want to like Bhoot, one of your lawyers if there’s like the number one lawyer that people are coming to, but most importantly, I would definitely track those form completions, and try to figure out if you’re doing any digital advertising, which digital ads, are you wasting money on? Because they’re getting people to the site, but they’re not filling out the form? And which ones are getting them to fill out a form? And lastly, I would say what are the barriers and look at the path flow in, say, an analytics product to see what are they going from the homepage? And what’s stopping them from getting to the form? Are you making it too difficult to find the form. And some companies even do this thing called a B testing? Will they’ll say, hey, we have a button to the form, but it’s buried underneath the fold of the screen. Let’s do a test. If we move the button to the top nav, how much does that increase? People filling out a form and you always want to kind of use analytics to kind of refine that and see if you can improve the number of people fill out forms. And obviously, if people do fill out the forms follow up with that.
Steve Fretzin [19:07]
I mean, the number of lawyers that that take, like I said at the very beginning that understand about where a button should be placed on a website, how you’re tracking from the homepage to the form to be filled out how you’re driving traffic to the things that you want, you know, that you want people to take action on, it’s just not done. It’s just not done. And I don’t know that the website, people and companies are pushing it because maybe it means they have to do more work or they have to make changes. I don’t understand why that isn’t at the forefront of the conversation. If I spent $20,000 on a website, and there might be some ongoing work and changes and updates. Why Why wouldn’t they want to make it the most efficient way possible for that firm?
[19:50]
Yeah, but normally every law firm probably has someone who’s in charge of marketing and this would be the person who would be responsible and if they don’t know how to do this, then there’s agencies they’re probably using to buy the ads, who will also help them with some of this. So I think there just has to be someone and I don’t expect lawyers to know how to do this. I have had one large law firm I work with many years ago, they actually did send a report to each lawyer each week that said, Here’s of all the blog posts that you wrote, here’s the number of views that you got, because some of the lawyers want to just know, like, is it worth it for me to blog, but they were just the recipient of a report? I wouldn’t expect lawyers to know how to go in and pull reports and run data, right? Probably not their core competency.
Steve Fretzin [20:35]
Right. So it needs to be explained like it would be to a child. And that’s how I like things to see weight, especially when it comes to stuff that’s it can be just a rabbit hole of information. And in anytime someone’s talking to me about coding and all that the specs of it, I’m just lost, I’m done. So like, you know, talk to me and talk to lawyers, like we’re children and just give us the Reader’s Digest version, here’s what’s going on, here’s what you may need to change. Do you have an example. And this could be from a big corporation, you don’t have to give a name, but whatever, have some things that you were able to identify through the tracking that allows you to make better decisions where the company ended up doing much better after the fact.
[21:15]
Yeah, so a couple of things there. The first thing is, yes, it’s really complicated. But the good news is, nowadays, the technology has gotten so modern, that one of your developers, whoever makes your website, they know how to do some of this. And they can put literally a couple lines of code on the site, and boom, you start getting data. So that’s the good news. In your second part in terms of an example, if you think of like a retailer, and I’ll use a Best Buy, let’s imagine that they have a million people a week who are putting items in a cart. And this is a real story that happened to me. I had a retailer who was really struggling to improve their bottom line, like get more things sold. So what I had them do is I said, every time someone puts something in the cart, you know how much money that product is worth? And they’d like, Of course we do. So I said, Well, why don’t we capture that in a metric. And they would basically multiply, if I had a product for $50, they would say, Okay, we have one cart addition, and it was $50. Well, over a week, that company had about $20 million added to the cart. So then once people add things to the cart, they would go to checkout. And we would ask them to put in the dollar amount that was in checkout, so maybe 10 million, made it from cart to checkout, then they would only sell about 1 million in the actual revenue. So they went from 20 million to 10 million to 1 million. And so I said to them, now you can see how much money you’re potentially losing. All we have to do is look at the paths that people are taking and look at which products are most often added to the cart, but not purchased, and do some testing that says like, Hey, you left this in the cart, are you sure you don’t want to buy this one little promo like that? Help them get up like 5% of their revenue. And so looking at where people are kind of diverging. And there you saw the opportunity cost of where analytics can tell you so they spend a million dollars with a firm like, like ours or vendor to figure out how to save 10 million like, yeah, that’s worth it for them. I know that example doesn’t really pertain to the lawyers. But that’s just an example of how people use data is a really easy way to see how you can invest and save money and make money.
Steve Fretzin [23:31]
But it absolutely does add them because at the end of the day, what most lawyers and look, there are lawyers and law firms that just want to have a pretty website, because that’s their brand. And that’s that’s how they want to be seen professional. It’s just a way of, you know, letting people know, hey, we’re real, and we’re professional. There’s a lot of other lawyers that would love to get their conversions out, meaning people go to their website. And they’re actually there for a reason. They’re looking for a lawyer and they want to convert that to so but they’re losing people they don’t realize it’s like your I’ll give you another example. I have a client, this is a plug for money, Penny, okay, one of my sponsors. There’s a lawyer that I refer to money penny, and he didn’t realize through his phone tree that he was losing about 50% of the actual calls that were coming through. Because he didn’t have live reception. Now he’s got live reception, his call volume doubled because people kept getting his voicemail and hanging up. Now they’re dealing with live reception, taking messages, getting callbacks, actually directing them to him. And I don’t see this as two different that when we put something in place, and then we can figure out how to improve that conversion. Well, that could change the game for a law firm that wants to get
[24:47]
a lawyer, lawyer example. Oh, great. One of the things when you first started your business that I told you is hey, why don’t you put testimonials on your website and one of the things you did is you put you videotape. People talking about your services. So a great AV test for a law firm would be we have a website, we benchmarked it, we know how many people are coming, looking at content filling out a form. Now, let’s throw on when someone looks at a particular service offering a client of ours, talking about how great our law firm was to help them. Now what I’d like to do is let that run for a couple of weeks and see, do we get more people from that product page to go directly to fill out a form, and that says something that doesn’t have to be very complex, but that’s something any law firm can do, and then come up with a next idea. Maybe there’s another thing besides testimonials, but that’s a perfect example of you could do it and just hope for the best. Or you can do it and quantify it. And if it works, let’s say it costs 10,000, to do a nice production of that video, they may not want to do a second one or third one. But if you can prove that we just got $500,000 worth of new bookings, because of that video, then yeah, that helps you make the business case for it.
Steve Fretzin [26:00]
Yeah. And if you’re a smaller firm, and you’re looking to do something on the cheaper or whatever, you know, and I’ve done it, I’ve paid top dollar, three camera shoots, lighting, the works. And recently what I did was I had my clients interviewed on Zoom. And so they’re answering questions about about me, my programs, their benefit, the results, things like that on Zoom, people are so used to zoom now that you may not have to do a full production. And then that gets edited very easily and put into a video and it’s on my services page. So people that want to hear people talk about my full like training and coaching program, there’s a video for that there’s a video for my peer advisory roundtables. And then does that lead to conversion? Exactly. And you
[26:40]
probably are, you probably can see how many people are watching each video. And then when you get more sophisticated, you can then try to figure out do people who watch that video within the next 30 days come back and fill out a form or become a customer? And that’s that’s the field I’m in?
Steve Fretzin [26:53]
Yeah, really interesting stuff. Adam Greco, one of my oldest friends with amplitude and your game changing book as we wrap things up is rework talk about that. Why is that your game changing book?
[27:06]
Yeah, so rework is an interesting read. It’s written by a Chicago company, they’re actually all over, but their headquarters Chicago, they used to be called 37 signals, then they were called Basecamp. Now they’re, I think they’re back to 37 signals, but they’ve written a couple of books. And the whole idea that is I read this book one time, and it talks about how much time professionals like lawyers spend in meetings, and how much time they really waste. And it’s really an interesting read, it’s a quick read, but it kind of gives you a new way of working that was way ahead of time. And actually, it talked a lot about working remotely that we’re all kind of doing now. But it’s just a great way for you to think about how am I best using my time. And there’s some things like an anecdote from the book I’ll tell you is they did some research that the minute someone walks up to you at the office and ask you a question, it can take you up to 30 minutes to kind of reengage and get back in the zone. Yeah, and one of the things that tips they give is to block off your calendar. And even as a company, maybe try to think about having like days where no one can bug you. And what they found is that people really get so much more work done. But it just seems like nowadays everyone wants to meet all the time, that’s just one tidbit. There’s tons of them in that book. And so if you’re a professional reading that book really kind of get you to rethink the way that you work. And that’s why it’s called rework.
Steve Fretzin [28:26]
There you go. And I think the pandemic really helped from a standpoint of people understanding their true efficiencies when they don’t have the commute time, when they don’t have the Hey, how’s it going at the you know, at the watercooler are walking into your office, how much you can get done. And then of course, balancing that with the distractions of being at home with, you know, family and all that kind of stuff going on. So it’s interesting book and check it out rework and Adam Greco body. So good to have you. I’m glad we’re able to work this out. Because we I think we went back and forth a little bit to try to figure out like, how would this benefit the people that listen to my show? And I think you nailed it, man.
[29:01]
Yeah, well, hopefully it helps. Yeah, we were we were struggling to figure out on the podcast, because I love talking to you. But I also wanted to make sure it was relevant to your lawyer. So if nothing else, they learned a little more about a field digital analytics that might help them some way down the road. Yeah. And again,
Steve Fretzin [29:17]
if you said, if you can’t improve what you don’t track, and I think one of the things I’ve said for years is you can’t measure it, you can’t manage it. I think it’s saying the same thing. But I don’t know that lawyers and small law firms in particular, are taking advantage of tracking and knowing and getting information that can be crucial to the decisions you make to improve things over time. And that’s really what it’s all about. Whether it’s business development, marketing, websites, it’s all about incremental improvement. And you’re covering an area today Adam that most of them maybe haven’t even thought about but should be.
[29:49]
Yeah, and like it or not, the world is going digital so they’re gonna have to deal with this down the road. So better to start learning about it. Now suck
Steve Fretzin [29:56]
it up. Deal with it. All right. Listen, everybody. Thank you. We’re spending some time with Adam in AI today, man to 30 minutes just flew by. I don’t know what you’re up to. But for me it was it was brilliant and just how we, you know worked out how you can get value in real benefit from looking at the data and looking at the analytics to understand what’s going on. And it’s all about helping you to be that lawyer someone who’s competent, organized and a skilled Rainmaker, so take note be well be safe. We’ll talk again soon.
Narrator [30:29]
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for drilling a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website fretzin.com. For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes