Andy Hite: Clearing the Head Trash to Be The Change

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Andy Hite discuss:

  • Practicing the change you want to see now.
  • How leadership done right can change the world.
  • Emotional intelligence and its role in leading a team and developing a strong culture.
  • Building a strong culture.
  • Uncovering the stories we tell ourselves, and challenging those stories.

Key Takeaways:

  • Do it now. You don’t need to wait to see the changes that you want to see in the world. Try now and make changes every day to be closer to what and who you want to be.
  • Emotional intelligence is the true distinguisher between management and leadership. Leaders do need to manage, but managers don’t need to lead. Cultivating both skills creates impactful organizations.
  • Releasing control will allow you to practice things that will allow you to be an effective leader. You only have so much capacity.
  • Your values need to be more important than revenue.

“A business is a macrocosm of individuals living out values. If someone really wants a strong culture, they have to define ‘Who do we want to be as an organization? What values do we want to espouse?’ Then filter every decision, action, and way of being in the world through those values.” —  Andy Hite

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About Andy Hite: Andy Hite is a recognized executive coach who supports entrepreneurs, executives, and their teams as they navigate the world of building businesses and lives filled with prosperity, meaning, & freedom.

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Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.


[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hey, everybody, before we get to the show, I just want to share another amazing event we’ve got coming up called Mastering the Legal Clock and Thriving. And that’s happening on the 29th of February from noon to one central time. It’s me and my friend, Sarah Reeth Hecking, and we are going to help you reclaim control of your legal practice in one hour.

[00:00:18] Steve Fretzin: So if you don’t have time to come and join us, maybe you need to come and join us. I enjoy the show. Everybody.

[00:00:28] Narrator: You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

[00:00:50] Steve Fretzin: Well, Hey everybody. Welcome to be that lawyer. I hope you’re well. I’m Steve Fretzin as the announcer mentioned. And. I’m just so happy you’re here today. Again, another episode twice a week, uh, learning how to be that lawyer. Someone who’s competent, organized, and a skilled Rainmaker. We are helping solos. We are helping the mid market, the large firm lawyers who want to break out and really be their best selves.

[00:01:11] Steve Fretzin: Um, they want to scale, they want to delegate, they want to, you know, biz dev, they want to market everything. Um, so I’m continually trying to work on bringing great guests. I’ve got one today for you guys and Andy, how’s it going, Andy? Good morning. Good to see you, man. Good to see you too. And, uh, for you guys learning about Fretzin for the first time, there’s only two things I do, uh, ladies and gentlemen.

[00:01:32] Steve Fretzin: And one is. I work with future rainmakers, people that are really dedicated and motivated to making the best use of their time to grow business and, and get that control and freedom that comes with a book of business. And I also am working with existing rainmakers, folks that are running firms and that are working at firms and, and their, their thing is to just bring in as much business as possible, but they’re feeling a bit isolated and they, they want to be a part of a group of other ambitious attorneys who are doing between, let’s say one and 10 million.

[00:02:03] Steve Fretzin: Uh, to learn all the soft skills of business development, management, leadership, et cetera, et cetera. And so check out my website, frets and. com to learn more about either of those two deliverables. And that’s enough about that. Andy, we are going to start off with the quote of the show. And, uh, I think this is a Gandhi and there’s a long version, a short version.

[00:02:22] Steve Fretzin: I’ll give you the short that you can do the longer and explain it, but be the change. Is that like, be the ball in a happy Gilmore?

[00:02:30] Andy Hite: I love it. Um, in some ways, yeah. I mean, we could make that, that comparison. Yeah. Gandhi said, be the change you want to see in the world, right? Like, don’t just wish it, go be it, do it, create it.

[00:02:41] Andy Hite: Right. And which I’ve always loved that quote, but I also use it in my work, uh, when it comes to. Self development, professional development, leadership. If there’s something you want, someone you want to be, don’t wait to grow into it. Be it now. How we create quick transformational

[00:02:59] Steve Fretzin: change. Yeah, that’s really interesting.

[00:03:01] Steve Fretzin: And I, I think it’s, it’s difficult for people to see or to make that transition. Is there, is there something that. The switch that you flip, or you got to hire a coach. What do you got to do to

[00:03:12] Andy Hite: change? Well, let’s plug, you must hire a coach. No.

[00:03:16] Steve Fretzin: Um,

[00:03:16] Andy Hite: so oftentimes we, we all have goals, right? Some, we want to grow a business.

[00:03:21] Andy Hite: We want to become a better leader. We want a better team. And we can look off into our world and see people that are doing it. And oftentimes we can identify qualities, traits, ways of being that these people are doing that we’re not, I say, step into those shoes today. Practice being that dynamic leader practice being that person that is very honest, whatever that thing is for you that you’re not doing, um, don’t wait, just practice now be that change now,

[00:03:52] Steve Fretzin: I think that’s a good idea for everybody in life is just do it now and again, that doesn’t mean.

[00:04:00] Steve Fretzin: You know, cliff diving because of a whim. I mean, it’s, it’s really about, I’m going to lose weight and I’m going to start in Q2. That’s what I’ve decided. I’m going to lose weight in Q2. That’s never going to happen. It’s never going to happen because I didn’t do it now. I’m still eating the Twinkies and the Ho Ho’s and the McDonald’s every day.

[00:04:17] Steve Fretzin: I’m not everybody, but like, that would be the hypothetical. The, so it’s, yeah. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, I just want to put that out there, except, except health and wellness, except health and wellness, but um, but the do it now, really, you know, just, we just came full circle on something else, but anyway, the point is, is like, what you’re getting to is like, you know, kind of fake it till you make it, do the best you can to be that, be who you want to be, and then work on it as you go.

[00:04:42] Steve Fretzin: Well, it’s like,

[00:04:42] Andy Hite: you know, you draw the analogy of dieting, right? Well, we’ll start on that. Well, then you in your basically what you’re saying is you’re not a healthy eater. You’ll do that later, but if we’re healthy eaters, we do that now. And what I’m saying is whatever that thing is for you, be that now.

[00:05:01] Andy Hite: Say, I am this. Practice being that.

[00:05:04] Steve Fretzin: It’s like a, like a, also like a self, like a self talk as if self talk as well. Andy, Andy Height, founder of Scaling Minds, give us a little background on, uh, on your voyage and, and delving into being a coach, helping with management leadership, you know, and all those, all those aspects of, of executive coaching.

[00:05:24] Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

[00:05:25] Andy Hite: Well, I’ve always been a devout student, very passionate about personal and professional development about, you know, using myself as a guinea pig, working to grow and, and to become the best person, the best father, the best leader that I can be. Yeah. I learned leadership the wrong way by working with people that really sucked at it and created terrible environments and places where no one felt safe to be themselves and, you know, just no way to run a business.

[00:05:53] Andy Hite: Fast forward several years ago, I started just helping people become better. How do you become a better person, a better leader, a better father? And then I fell in love with this thing called coaching that I didn’t even know really existed. And so I just decided to leave my prior career where I was working with a bunch of crappy leaders and then work on making an impact in the world on individuals and, and organizations through the lens of leadership, because I do believe leadership can change an individual’s life, uh, and it can change an organization.

[00:06:28] Andy Hite: And in fact, it can change the world. I

[00:06:30] Steve Fretzin: mean, was that a challenging move for you to sort of leave up? Page, you know, paycheck and a regular job to be an entrepreneur.

[00:06:38] Andy Hite: Yes. I forget. That’s scary as hell, man.

[00:06:41] Steve Fretzin: What are you talking about? It’s easy. Just, you just say, no, I mean, literally just be the entrepreneur, be the change.

[00:06:46] Steve Fretzin: That’s what I had to practice. Yeah. Yes.

[00:06:49] Andy Hite: Yeah, it’s really, really, really scary, but, but I am a firm believer in like trusting gut trusting intuition, like being real and finding a way and what I knew at one point that this was what I was going to do that I needed to do. It was one of those things that just pulled me and so my job then was to just find the way to do it and we created some runway.

[00:07:11] Andy Hite: We said bye bye on a shingle and here

[00:07:14] Steve Fretzin: we are. And here we are, okay, so what, what I really, what I wanted to get into today is so many different aspects of leadership and culture and, and maybe a starting point is, you know, people have heard of the, of the, the, the term emotional intelligence, and I think that plays a role in.

[00:07:35] Steve Fretzin: Human beings leadership and how they also just play with others. I mean, what, how do you define emotional intelligence and how does that play a role in our ability to lead a team or, or develop good culture? Things like that.

[00:07:47] Andy Hite: Excellent. Excellent question. The best of the best leaders are incredibly emotionally intelligent individual.

[00:07:54] Andy Hite: You know, those are people that. That know who they are, they know how they tick, they know what their strengths and shortcomings are, they know how to, uh, read people, engage with people, they’re both, um, empathetic, and also, uh, strong, you know, these are, these are qualities that people grow into. And aren’t always just innate and so my big belief in the work that I do is helping leaders become more and more self aware and emotionally intelligent because that will inform the level of their leadership.

[00:08:30] Steve Fretzin: So in there’s probably more, uh, there’s a lot, there’s less leaders who are emotionally intelligent than there are. Leaders that are,

[00:08:40] Andy Hite: there are less that are less than most are

[00:08:43] Steve Fretzin: there less, less, less leaders. Okay. So, so it’s just, so we know where we’re going. A lot of our leaders typically more emotionally intangible or intelligent or less.

[00:08:54] Steve Fretzin: That’s where I was going. Very,

[00:08:55] Andy Hite: very, very good question. So I see a lot in business. A distinction between true leadership and manage. And what I find is most people in a position to be able to be a leader are just manager. They are kind of overseeing a department or an organization. Are we doing it right?

[00:09:16] Andy Hite: Are we doing it on time? Are we doing it or quality? Which has nothing to do with actual leaders. So I do see oftentimes that there is a lot of room for growth and emotional intelligence and leadership in. Almost every organization that I, I work with, because we are not taught leadership, leadership is not innate, but management is like, let’s crack a whip.

[00:09:40] Andy Hite: Let’s make sure that things are getting done and we’re making money. Very different than

[00:09:43] Steve Fretzin: leadership. I think my problem, because there was a time where I had, you know, 13 employees and multiple businesses, and I was doing everything like I didn’t know. I didn’t delegate anything to anybody. Um, and I ran myself in the ground, but I think, I think I was a better leader and I think I was not a very good manager.

[00:10:00] Steve Fretzin: And I think that’s why things didn’t get done and why things, you know, people would follow me to the end of the earth. Except that they couldn’t because they weren’t really being managed properly.

[00:10:10] Andy Hite: Uh, leaders do need to manage and managers don’t need to lead, but if you have the quality, the both skills, um, you can typically create very prosperous, very enjoyable, very, um, impactful businesses.

[00:10:26] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, that’s really interesting. So how does, um, so we’ve got management, we’ve got leadership. And what does a leader need to go through to become a like, okay, leaders, good leaders and great leaders. How does someone go from being an okay leader to a great leader?

[00:10:41] Andy Hite: Um, good question. Typically, that is doing a lot of work on themselves, right?

[00:10:47] Andy Hite: Getting into the gym of leadership. Um, and practicing, you know, the things that get in the way of people being good leaders is typically their own ego. And I don’t mean ego from an arrogant standpoint, but their own need, right? For example, some of the clients that I work with, they can become the, how they navigate their world of businesses through control, they’re very good at like dialing in dials and controlling the, the environment, well, that’s not leadership because that’s them doing the thing.

[00:11:17] Andy Hite: And so in order to become a great leader. That person is going to have to practice doing things that they don’t typically do by releasing control. Same thing could be in perfectionism, could be in all different kinds of realms where they get in their own way of becoming an effective leader. I always.

[00:11:37] Andy Hite: Draw a parallel between really good leadership is like good parenting, because a really good parent, their job is to help that kid grow up and be self sufficient, um, self motivating, achieve, have a lot of belief in what, who they are and what they do. Um, and I think that’s what really good leaders do, which is very distinct from management, right?

[00:12:03] Andy Hite: Um, if we can be a leader that pulls out the very best in everybody in our organization, that’s an organization that’s going to thrive.

[00:12:10] Steve Fretzin: And do less stupid things. Do less stupid things. You know, if we’re going to

[00:12:14] Andy Hite: boil

[00:12:14] Steve Fretzin: it down, don’t be dumb. So, all right, here’s a concern. We’ve got law firm owners. Manage it.

[00:12:23] Steve Fretzin: So they’re, they’re leading the firm. They’re managing a team or two or three. They’re doing business development and they’re also managing clients and doing thousands of hours of legal work. Yep. Not a good idea.

[00:12:38] Andy Hite: I think it really depends on the person, right?

[00:12:40] Steve Fretzin: Okay. Okay. We only have

[00:12:41] Andy Hite: so much capacity. Right.

[00:12:43] Andy Hite: And so if we’re trying to be a superman or superwoman, and we don’t actually have the capacity to execute all those things, which very few people do, you’re probably going to shoot yourself in the foot.

[00:12:55] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. You know, Leader, leaders probably need, if they’re going to leave, if that’s their thing is to lead and grow a firm, for example, there’s some things they have to let go

[00:13:02] Andy Hite: of.

[00:13:03] Andy Hite: Yes, absolutely, and that’s part of being emotionally intelligent and self aware is understanding strength weaknesses being able to look at what is possible and what isn’t and being able to identify, Hey, what, what resources do I need to bring in to support me and the organization?

[00:13:21] Steve Fretzin: I think if I had worked with a coach or really focused on my leadership, someone would have come to me and say, you know, you’re.

[00:13:30] Steve Fretzin: People, you know, people think you’re great. They’re going to follow you and lead and you’re bleeding. Great. Your management is terrible. You need to hire someone or bring someone in that can manage all of these things that you’ve got going on may have changed the course of my life, but I really didn’t, I just didn’t think of it that way.

[00:13:44] Steve Fretzin: You know, here’s a coach that didn’t think that I needed a coach. You know, I I’ve had coaches before, but not on. Leadership and management, particularly, and I think that may have been a big misstep for me, you know, it’s not

[00:13:56] Andy Hite: required, but the best of the best realized that they need some that they’re going to accomplish more if they have that, that outside perspective and that I, uh, helping identify strengths and weaknesses, right?

[00:14:08] Andy Hite: You know, a lot of times when you have a rainmaker, they can be the visionary. It sounds to me like you’re a rainmaker and a visionary. But typically what’s missing in that profile is the OPS person, the person that can just make the stuff happen. Yeah. Right? And that is as important as having that missionary or rainmaker.

[00:14:29] Andy Hite: You gotta have somebody that knows how to make the sausage once you create the recipe.

[00:14:33] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And you know, then, then the other part of it is, is finding good talent and, and bringing them up. And I, and again, I, I think I do an amazing job with, with coaching lawyers and working with them. From where they are to where they’re going to be, uh, however, that’s a different skill than managing a team.

[00:14:52] Andy Hite: Very, very different, right? Because it sounds like, and correct me if I’m wrong, what your zone of genius is, it’s pulling out the very best in them as a, as an attorney.

[00:15:01] Steve Fretzin: As a, as a, as a rainmaking attorney, right? As someone that can grow business and make them a better attorney too, you know, you know, they can’t, they can’t win a, they can’t win a trial without me.

[00:15:10] Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

[00:15:11] Andy Hite: Not necessarily as a lawyer, but as an entrepreneur who isn’t a lawyer. Yeah. Yeah. And that is the foundation, right? Without that, there is no business. But to grow beyond that, they do then have to become great leaders of team and growing an organization beyond just the biz dev or their own individual pursuits.

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[00:17:28] Steve Fretzin: The idea that I brought up earlier was, you know, someone that’s, you know, wearing like five different hats and the emotional intelligence would dictate, you know, Hey, you need to probably pick that.

[00:17:39] Steve Fretzin: Like you said, vision for me, visionary and rainmaker. Those are my two main hats. And then everything else needs to be delegated. And I don’t think law firm owners do a very good job with that. I think they feel like they need to control everything and they need to do everything and Then it makes it very difficult for them to get out of that, out of that, out of their, all the roles that they’re, that they’re facilitating.

[00:18:02] Andy Hite: Well, that in and of itself is sort of a, I’m going to use some coach speak, like a survival mechanism, right? I’m really used to controlling everything and doing everything myself. And there’s a little bit of unknown fear, maybe scarcity of being able to identify and bring in people to support that. That can be very nerve wracking for some folks.

[00:18:22] Andy Hite: But that’s required in order to grow in scale.

[00:18:26] Steve Fretzin: So let’s say that you’re talking with someone who has that problem, that they’re just doing too much and they’re not able to get where they want to go because of it, it’s been clearly defined that way. What are some things that you would suggest the law firm leader who is doing too much, or even an attorney that’s listening that.

[00:18:42] Steve Fretzin: You know, let’s say it’s a solo that’s doing his or her own books, that’s doing his or her own admin, doing his or her own, everything is falling on that one person. How do you help them to start to isolate what they should do and what they shouldn’t do?

[00:18:57] Andy Hite: Uh, good question. First and foremost, you know, most people are just putting out the fires.

[00:19:01] Andy Hite: So what I like to do with whomever I’m working with is understand what their long term goals are, and then we start to map out, well, how to get there. One thing that becomes very evident is this one person or small team can’t do it all. So then we start to look at, well, okay, well, then how do we do it?

[00:19:20] Andy Hite: And then once those say, for example, it is the one that that is a little fearful or, or uncomfortable with bringing an outside people, we start to look at that. Well, why, what stories are behind it and how do we practice being the change now? Like, let’s just hire the person. Let’s see what comes up when, when we’re in that scenario, because nine times out of 10.

[00:19:44] Andy Hite: The thing that we’re uncomfortable with is the thing that we think might happen or like pasteurizing that we’re, you know, playing into doesn’t happen. So that’s how we grow.

[00:19:54] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. There’s a lot of head trash out. I call it head trash, but you know, where, you know, people in my, I’m not going to pick on my wife too much, but she’s, she’s home today from school, but she has a lot of head.

[00:20:03] Steve Fretzin: She’s listening right now. She doesn’t list the podcast. I could say whatever I want about her. She may someday. Just like worrying about the future and worrying about things mostly that are out of her control and that, and I’m the opposite. I don’t worry about pretty much anything that isn’t, uh, that’s out of my control.

[00:20:20] Steve Fretzin: You know, I’ve got, you know, family health issues or I’ve got weather or I’ve got whatever, you know, clients that are, you know, difficult. Well, that’s not me. That’s them. I just have to, you know, work off of that. So, uh, you know, how do you help people get through some of that head trash that comes in that, that keeps them from being the change?

[00:20:38] Steve Fretzin: It’s really

[00:20:38] Andy Hite: what I do most in my work. Um, it’s first identifying that it’s head track. Most people don’t even know because it’s kind of this operating system that’s running underneath that isn’t aware. So we kind of bring that to awareness. Oh, you have a scarcity mindset or you believe, you know, X, Y, or Z is going to happen first.

[00:20:58] Andy Hite: Let’s just put that out there and say, yes, this has happened. And then we practice being something different. We practice in the face of that trash, doing the thing that isn’t natural. And that’s how we grow, right? That’s getting into the gym of life, gaining new skills, getting new muscles, and that’s how we just create change.

[00:21:17] Steve Fretzin: And what happens when someone isn’t willing to change if they’re just stuck and there’s no coaching in the world that’s going to help them, they don’t change then. Good luck. Right? Right. Well, I mean, and

[00:21:28] Andy Hite: here’s the thing, like, none of this is, is required, but it does. If that is something that you want, you kind of have to step into the ring, right?

[00:21:37] Andy Hite: Was it Teddy Roosevelt? Famous speech, the man in the arena. Like to really accomplish and to really get to the end of our, our, uh, professional life and life and, and feel great about it, we kind of have to get in there, um, and as he said, risk being bloodied and marred. For those that take on that challenge, big things are available

[00:22:00] Steve Fretzin: and the leaders that are working on themselves and working towards, you know, being the best at growing their law firm and in a place where people want to work.

[00:22:13] Steve Fretzin: And like you said, when you, you know, we’re working with some bad and I’ve had some really bad managers and really bad leaders. You know, working off of fear, not off of, of leadership and an energy that is positive. What are, what are two or three things that leaders that are, that are working towards that they also want to build a strong culture.

[00:22:29] Steve Fretzin: They want to have an environment where people can be themselves. And that’s also very difficult in the law firm environment and the business environment to, you know, feel comfortable to be yourself and to, to be at a place where you feel. Everyone’s out there to help you, not out there to hurt you.

[00:22:44] Andy Hite: A business is, is a macrocosm of an individual, right?

[00:22:49] Andy Hite: We are, as people, we’re made up of value. And if we choose to live out those values, typically good things, business can be the same thing, or is the same thing. It is living out value, oftentimes just not the ones that they want to be living out. So. Someone really wants a strong culture. They have to define who do we want to be as a, an organization?

[00:23:11] Andy Hite: What values do we want to espouse? And then what’s required is to filter every decision action, um, way of being in the world, uh, through those values. When that happens, amazing things can happen. We see it all all over the place. Microsoft in the late nineties, Zappos, which used to be Shoesight, you know, these are organizations that doubled down on organizational culture and it literally transformed, um, their organization.

[00:23:44] Andy Hite: Um, they were able to attract great talent. They were able to double, I think, uh, Microsoft tripled cap market capitalization. When, when they doubled down in the late nineties. So all of this is possible, but it does take discipline, organizational awareness, um, and choice and what’s really top, sorry, um, to jump on is it has to be more important.

[00:24:10] Andy Hite: Than revenue. Hmm.

[00:24:12] Steve Fretzin: Okay. That’s hard. Yeah. Yeah. ’cause that’s the almighty dollar. That’s the

[00:24:16] Andy Hite: almighty dollar.

[00:24:17] Steve Fretzin: So let’s, let’s get a little bit more, ’cause I think there’s a lot of people who don’t understand coaching maybe the way you or I do. And do you have a, a either like a case study or an example of a client who came to you, what they were dealing with at the time, what you worked on, and kind of where they came out.

[00:24:33] Steve Fretzin: The other side, just so people can get a flavor for the potential of coaching and what it can mean. When somebody is really committed to the process. Yeah.

[00:24:43] Andy Hite: Um, I mean, I have a bunch of them work, uh, work with a client still working with her running, uh, an organization. I think her team was maybe 18 or 20.

[00:24:54] Andy Hite: Okay. She long story short, very much a people pleaser. And what happened as a result is she had some really bad culture fit in the organization that was, uh, stopping the organization from growth. Part of the work that we did was helping her become aware of it. How she shows up in meetings and throughout the organization and how it’s getting in the way.

[00:25:15] Andy Hite: And then we kind of had to get rid of some of those folks that were terrible, terrible culture fit. Today, happily, she is surrounded by amazing people that she feels are almost family, all working towards the same thing, and she’s seen growth in her organization as a result. Yeah,

[00:25:33] Steve Fretzin: and it, I’m, I’m a bit of a, a people pleaser myself and I, I don’t like conflict and I like, you know, when everybody is happy and I want to be like, that’s just a part of my makeup.

[00:25:42] Steve Fretzin: And so in order to keep that up, like I try not to rock the boat, but, but in coaching and in light, we have to. Uh, but I just, uh, you know, had to end a relationship with a vendor I’ve been using and, you know, we’re friends and we’re friendly, but I, I needed to do it. And so I also have the ability to be very direct and, and very sort of, I don’t want to say self deprecating, but do it in a way where I, it’s like a break, it’s like breaking up with someone in a relationship, but you do it in such a way that people have a hard time making it into a fight.

[00:26:13] Steve Fretzin: And part of

[00:26:13] Andy Hite: the work in coaching when, because I’m a card carrying people, pleaser, like I know it

[00:26:19] Steve Fretzin: well, I see your code there. Yeah, that’s the same as mine. Okay.

[00:26:22] Andy Hite: Um, is uncovering the stories that we have around. Well, if they’re not pleased, then what? That feels dangerous that feels because we’ve created it was probably created for us in you right we had to become a certain type of person to feel safe and we’re we’re continuing that in adulthood so we we kind of uncover the story and challenge and when we do that we can see that oh good things happen.

[00:26:50] Andy Hite: When we’re emotionally intelligent and responsible and not just people, please.

[00:26:54] Steve Fretzin: Well, and there’s, uh, there’s the other side of it. Someone isn’t a people pleaser there. They’re just, you know, they’re the tyrant running around. They completely lack empathy. Yeah. Well, or, or yes, that might be part of it. And part of it is just such a big ego.

[00:27:09] Steve Fretzin: They can’t be wrong. And everybody needs to do things in lockstep with that individual. And there’s still a number of law firm owners that are working that are running like that. And I don’t know how they keep people, but they may be because they were, they’re paying them well, or because of they’re just too afraid to leave.

[00:27:25] Steve Fretzin: I’m not sure, but that’s, that’s still happening too. Yeah, a very

[00:27:29] Andy Hite: autocratic, very, you know, domineering and that too, just like the people pleasing is a way that they’ve learned to get results in the world and it can be very frightening to release the rain and to not be domineering. Because they’re afraid if they don’t be that, um, that they won’t get their same result.

[00:27:48] Andy Hite: And that’s just not true. So there’s all, all of these ways we can grow as leaders, as humans, that will help us get to the next level.

[00:27:59] Steve Fretzin: Really, um, really interesting, Andy, and thank you for being so open about what you’re doing and how, how. You know, important leadership is and, and how it develops culture and it develops people and all that.

[00:28:12] Steve Fretzin: Um, let’s move on to, um, your game changing podcast, which is diary of a CEO. And now I have not heard of that one, but I’m intrigued by it. Tell us a little bit about that podcast.

[00:28:21] Andy Hite: Ah, it’s so awesome. Steve is a British entrepreneur. I don’t know his businesses, but he brings on, it’s a long format podcast.

[00:28:31] Andy Hite: He brings on amazing thought leaders from all over the world, many names that, that we all know. And he really pulls out like their genius in a way that we can digest it as listeners. Um, he’s a very, very good interviewer and it’s everything from health and wellness to leadership to entrepreneurial ism.

[00:28:52] Andy Hite: I just think he’s a. A really smart, intuitive and intentional interviewer. And every time I listened to it, I learned something

[00:29:01] Steve Fretzin: highly recommended. Yeah, I’ll have everybody check that out for sure. And as we wrap up, I want to take a moment to thank our wonderful sponsors, all whom, which I’m doing business with and, and using every day.

[00:29:11] Steve Fretzin: So lawmatics, uh, for. You know how I’m automating, uh, the way that I manage my leads and relationships and, uh, in an automated way, which is phenomenal. I’ve got, of course, green cardigan marketing who’s vamped up my website and really made it focused on, you know, not only helping people figure out what I do, but are we a good fit and should they take action?

[00:29:33] Steve Fretzin: And then, of course, get staffed up where I’m getting all my marketing help and they help with full time admin. Full time marketing, full time, you know, whatever you need, um, for, you know, a fraction of the cost of locally. So you don’t need people in your office, get staffed up. I just came up with that, by the way, that was a new tagline for them.

[00:29:51] Steve Fretzin: So Brett, if you’re listening, yeah, right. Not too bad. Andy height if people want to get in touch with you and they want to become a great leader and and you know get some executive coaching what’s the best way for them to reach you i’m pretty active

[00:30:04] Andy Hite: on linkedin um easily searchable whatever the linkedin slash andy height um i try and share a lot of thought leadership there and then our website scalingminds.

[00:30:14] Andy Hite: com uh find out a lot about about us what we do um tons and tons of uh very proud to say this testimonials you Um, and reach out, love to

[00:30:26] Steve Fretzin: have a conversation. Yeah, very cool. It’s in a last name is spelled H I T E everybody. And the check that out in the show notes. Well, thanks, man. I’m, I’m glad that we are, um, you know, having breakfast and you’re part of my provisors network now, and, um, there’s just a lot of opportunities for us to, you know, build a friendship and network and help each other.

[00:30:44] Steve Fretzin: And I’m excited about the future for us. Appreciate

[00:30:47] Andy Hite: you, man. Yeah, appreci, thanks for having me

[00:30:49] Steve Fretzin: on Appreci. Yeah. Thanks for coming, sharing your wisdom and helping everybody kind of understand more about what a coach does and how, how impactful, impactful it can be. And thank you everybody for, for continuing to be an active listener, uh, with our podcast twice a week and to be that lawyer podcast.

[00:31:05] Steve Fretzin: Um, don’t be shy about telling other lawyers about it. Don’t be shy about giving us a thumbs up or a five star review or whatever the heck you got going on in your phone. Uh, but we want to continue to bring on great guests and help you to be that lawyer. Someone who’s confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker.

[00:31:19] Steve Fretzin: Take everybody. Be safe. Be well. We will talk again soon.

[00:31:26] Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, Fretzin. com, for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business developments. Development and marketing trends for more information and important links about today’s episode check out today’s show notes