In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Bob Green discuss:
- Bob’s experience in stopping a murder trial and how it lead to his current professional role.
- Making progress by solving at least one problem each month.
- Who are you when you’re not famous?
- Connecting with peer networking groups for personal and professional growth.
- Be willing to do things you have never done before. If you don’t, you’ll never achieve something you’ve never achieved.
- As a leader, you want to help everyone to bring their superpowers to the table because that is where your company will shine.
- You should understand what you want from this life, not just to be famous and well-known. What is it that you want to do and how you want to serve?
- It isn’t just about the grind. There is a way to build your business where you can have both the money and the freedom. Working with peers who have done it already can assist you in seeing what you are missing on your own.
“Let’s help people rise up! Let’s develop the processes that you learned along the way so somebody else can learn it with you and it may take him even less time because you’ve made some of the mistakes that you can help people avoid.” — Bob Green
Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: http://www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling
Thank you to our Sponsors!
- Theory of Constraints by Eliyahu Goldratt: https://www.amazon.com/Theory-Constraints-Eliyahu-M-Goldratt/dp/0884271668
About Bob Green: I help business owners grow companies from $1 million to $25 million in value without giving away their lives in the process. I work with owners and organize them with like-motivated owners in strategic board meetings to build great companies together. We focus on every aspect of the company, one priority at a time.
Connect with Bob Green:
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
[00:00:00] Bob Green: And, uh, Graham Nash asked him, who are you when you’re not famous? Because when you’re not famous, you’re kind of, you’re kind of a mess. And, uh, but in a good way, I asked people, you know, who they are when they’re not famous, because. Again, you know, why should you be a teacher? Because you want to do other things.
[00:00:20] Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
[00:00:42] Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody, welcome to Be That Lawyer, I hope you’re having a lovely and wonderful We’re in the, uh, the middle of, uh, well, beginning, middle of summer here in Chicago. And it’s just beautiful. We don’t have tornadoes. We don’t have fires. We don’t have, you know, big, uh, storms. So, you know, Chicago gets a bad rap because of the, the winters, but even the winters have been mild.
[00:01:03] Steve Fretzin: This show is all about weather in case you haven’t listened before to the, be that weather podcast. I’m joking. Be that lawyer. But do you agree with that bob like chicago is pretty damn good.
[00:01:12] Bob Green: I think it’s awesome. I I love I love the sunshine I’m a buffalo guy and there’s way too much overcast skies there.
[00:01:17] Bob Green: So I love the sunshine no matter what the temperature
[00:01:20] Steve Fretzin: All right. All right. Well, we’re all good. We love it here in Chicago. And, you know, as you guys are tuning into this show, whether you’ve listened to hundreds of episodes and we have over 300 now, or you’re, you know, brand new to the show, welcome and thank you for being here.
[00:01:32] Steve Fretzin: And, and this show is to help you, the lawyer, whether you’re at a big firm, a solo or anything in between to be that lawyer, someone who’s confident, organized and a skilled rainmaker. And what I’m looking to do is every single week twice a week is to bring in guests that are going to add value to your life that are going to give you tips and takeaways and ideas things you never thought of.
[00:01:52] Steve Fretzin: Uh, or things that maybe you have thought of, but hadn’t really taken action on. And this is about helping you start to, to take action and change your life for the better and in whatever way that we, uh, you know, whether that’s, you know, health and wellness, whether that’s, uh, marketing, you know, business development and today, you know, talking a little bit about peer advisory and, and getting value from your peers.
[00:02:11] Steve Fretzin: But I’ve got Bob Green with the quote of the show, by the way, Bob, that’s where we like to start. And this is a Thomas Jefferson, uh, and I’m a big Hamilton fan, so I don’t think he, he had a really good role in that, but he kind of got, kind of was like one of the bad guys in that a little bit, but if you want something you’ve never had, you must be willing to do something you’ve never done.
[00:02:30] Steve Fretzin: Which is pretty, pretty fricking smart, you know, for the 1700s. But, uh, why is that? First of all, welcome to the show. And second of all, why is that your, your quote of the show? What, what does that mean to you? You know, thanks,
[00:02:41] Bob Green: Steve. I was thinking about all I’ve done over the course of years. And it, it, it began working with attorneys when I was in college.
[00:02:48] Bob Green: But I thought about everything I’ve done that’s led me to do what I do now is, I guess I, not to be esoteric, but. All I’ve ever done are things I’ve never done before, and it’s been with a lot of people helping me along the way, so it’s never been alone, it’s always been an us kind of
[00:03:02] Steve Fretzin: experience. Yeah, I mean, when I hear that, I think, I mean, it directly relates to sort of the services I provide, because Lawyers want freedom and control and they want money and they want, you know, what money represents that could be security and safety and, you know, having that vacation, you know, or extra vacation or whatever it might mean.
[00:03:22] Steve Fretzin: And, but they’re not willing necessarily to do something they’ve never done, like hire a coach or be on an advice, you know, be in a peer advisory group or. Or or try to do more business development marketing and really become a student of that so they want something but they’re not always willing to put in the work or put in or try something new they’d rather just sort of either ignore it or they’d rather kind of for now not everyone that’s listening to this show folks on this that listen to this show they’re you know they’re actively you know pursuing growth and that destiny that lawyers dream of the be that lawyer kind of theme but that’s really what it means to me and I think that’s such an important quote for a People that, that recognize, yeah, if you just do the same thing over and over again, right, similarly with Einstein, you’re just not going to get where you want to go.
[00:04:05] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I just botched the Einstein quote, but that’s okay.
[00:04:08] Bob Green: Yeah. Right. But it really comes down to that freedom. See, like you said, you can, you can have the freedom without compromising success. That’s the point. Yeah,
[00:04:14] Steve Fretzin: exactly. Exactly. Bob Green, you’re the owner of the tab, which is the alternative board North shore.
[00:04:20] Steve Fretzin: I’ve known about tab for a long, long time and always been a fan of the concept. And I’ve been running my own peer advisory for a number of years now and can totally appreciate the value of it. But give us a little bit of your background leading into, into tab and. And, uh, obviously want to hear your kind of that be let be that lawyer tipping point that I always enjoy pulling out of people.
[00:04:42] Bob Green: Yeah. So, Steve, I’ve always been invited into conversations with companies, public companies, private companies, and now working with small business owners. But it’s really always been about, uh, of a context for conversations to try to either launch a new business, you know, bring companies together or. You know, just align things differently because things are just going sideways.
[00:05:03] Bob Green: You know, growth is kind of messy. Sometimes it could be a good problem or bad problem. And I’ve been, uh, in the midst of those good problems and bad problems with, uh, organizing the battle buddies to get through it for a long time. Yeah.
[00:05:15] Steve Fretzin: And what’s, I mean, there’s obviously, you know, everyone has a path that leads them to practice the law or become a coach or do something unique.
[00:05:22] Steve Fretzin: Was there any particular part of your, of your past that, that led you to doing what you do today? Yeah. You know, my,
[00:05:29] Bob Green: my tipping point, I, I had the privilege of having some in laws when I was in college who were attorneys and they invited me to work in the, In the law office, and I was updating law books. I did a pretty good job of that and almost put myself out of a job doing it.
[00:05:41] Bob Green: And they were so kind to invite me to observe a murder trial. They had an interest in it and in a following civil proceeding. So I was sitting in the courtroom one day after the lunch recess, and there was supposed to be one of the attorneys in there with me. And, uh, the person wasn’t there. So when the trial reconvened, the district attorney stood up and said, um, I think, uh, we, we should, um, review that file we talked about earlier, your honor, because I think it might be relevant.
[00:06:06] Bob Green: Well, that was a file that belonged to our law firm from another deposition. And so the judge said, I agree. Does anyone represent the law firm here? Our firm. And, uh. I looked around and I thought, I’m the only person in this room who represents the firm, and I really don’t represent the firm on my court.
[00:06:23] Bob Green: You know, so I stood up and I said, Oh, your honor, I do. And, uh, and then, uh, what, uh, so my, my first battle buddy who stepped up by, by accident, there was one of the, uh, other prosecutors who whispered to me, tell them your name. So I said, my name is Bob Green. And I, and then I started, I’ll just add, I’m not actually an attorney.
[00:06:39] Bob Green: The judge was really pleased with that when he asked, he said, what do I do, empty ashtrays? And I said, no. So then he, so then he quickly said, okay, look, go back to the office, get that file and bring it back. And I mean run, don’t walk. So then he pointed to the door and as I made my way out of the courtroom, I tried to open the door, but before I could, battle buddy number two, the deputy, who had been standing by the door whenever it was in session, grabbed the door with his right hand and held it shut.
[00:07:03] Bob Green: And then he put his other arm around me. As I stood there and he whispered in my ear, thanks a lot. We needed that. It’s been a little tense around here. So I knew now everyone was laughing at me as I suspected. So then I made my way back to the courtroom. I met me back to the office, sorry. And uh, I brought one of the partners back who had the file and was prepared to talk about it.
[00:07:21] Bob Green: When I walked back into the courtroom, I’d stopped the trial. Everybody was gone. The judge, the attorneys, the defendant, the jury, they’re all gone somewhere else. So the, uh, the attorney who came back with me said, okay, I’ll take care of it. Have a seat. There was no more, you know, uh, trial that particular day, it was all a private conversation, but so he was the ally that, you know, I really needed that skilled person, you know, to engage in that conversation as opposed to me being the hero.
[00:07:46] Bob Green: But here’s the, the fun part is what we always forget about. And when we go through these adventures in life and, uh, And it was going back on the subsequent day, I walked in and I sat down before the trial began and, uh, Mary McCombs, who was, uh, one of the reporters from ABC7 Buffalo came in and sat down next to me.
[00:08:05] Bob Green: And after we exchanged a nice good morning greeting, she, she said to me, we didn’t think we’d see you back here again. I said, okay, cool. So, uh, so that’s, that’s what it was. So those are the only, that’s the only time, Steve, in my life that those four allies to get through an adventure showed up by accident.
[00:08:21] Bob Green: So I organized them by intention now and that. That life lesson that I was privileged to be a part of because some people invited me to work in a law firm and observe a murder trial is the reason why I do what I do
[00:08:32] Steve Fretzin: today. Yeah. Well, and let’s just take a moment to, to talk about that. What is not only, uh, the alternative board, but, but it’s all about, I believe, you know, coaching and peer advisory.
[00:08:42] Steve Fretzin: So will you just give kind of a quick little run through of like, what is that?
[00:08:46] Bob Green: Yeah, so the, um, the, the, the peer advisory that, that we create when the groups is really a context for conversations and it’s, it’s, it’s solving a good and a, or a bad problem every month we’re, we’re trying to make progress and, and so what I do in the coaching sessions is.
[00:09:01] Bob Green: Is work through preparing that issue based upon a whole strategic plan that’s a, it’s a fluid thing. You know, you just develop it through the year and then you make adjustments and learn as you go. And every, every coaching session is a preparation for that context and conversation and that peer advisory so that when it comes together really structured, really tight, everybody gets something out of it and they know what they’re going to get out of it before they walk in the room.
[00:09:24] Bob Green: Yeah.
[00:09:25] Steve Fretzin: So it’s pure advisory, you know, is really about the coach, at least from my perspective, I’ve done all the coaching and training and that’s not really, you know, my role in this, in the particular meetings that I’m running. It’s having an agenda, prepared agenda of value, stepping back and really facilitating conversations and solutions, problem solutions, best practices, etc.
[00:09:50] Steve Fretzin: for highly functional people that want to continue to develop, want to continue to grow and be better than they were yesterday. And it’s the greatest joy to not have to step in and solve or step in and, and be the answer guy when I can let attorneys in my situation, it’s, it’s usually rainmakers and managing partners solve each other’s problems by sharing their shared experience and, you know, talking about their shared experiences and such like that.
[00:10:16] Steve Fretzin: So what, what are some of the things that. That you, that come up as a regular, like that you’re hearing is regular challenges for, and are you primarily focused on, I’m working with CEOs, is that in presidents and leaders of organizations?
[00:10:30] Bob Green: Yeah, exclusively those in ownership roles. Yeah, that’s, that’s really where it’s, what it’s all about.
[00:10:34] Bob Green: And, uh, but yeah, so to your point, what I’m doing is, like you said, it’s really about facilitating and helping everybody else to, you know, bring their superpower to the conversation to help other people and, you know, those complimentary superpowers. And, uh, But yeah, that’s, you know, really what’s, um, you know, it’s funny if you, if you ask a person, uh, one of the topics they always hear about marketing, right?
[00:10:55] Bob Green: Marketing and sales, how to, you know, it’s either I need to adjust the marketing or I need to, I need to measure it more effectively or what did it, you know, or, or what is it? You know, a lot of times people have, have grown their businesses through a network that they’ve already had. And now it’s, you know, it’s time to expand beyond that.
[00:11:13] Bob Green: And oftentimes it’s also in a similar context for hiring. You know, you’ve hired people from your network of friends and family, so to speak, and now you’ve grown to a point, it’s a good problem, you’ve grown, but now you need to hire somebody To do a job you may have never done before in your company and hire someone you’ve never met before.
[00:11:32] Bob Green: So, you know, those, those are the common ones that come up and they’re typically related to.
[00:11:37] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, it’s interesting. And then what challenges are you, I mean, so hiring is coming up. I mean, things that, you know, again, there’s leaders that are, that are trained as leaders. And I think most CEOs and business owners, I mean, the majority, I would say, especially in legal.
[00:11:53] Steve Fretzin: They’re not trained, right? They’re being handed a job or they’re applying for a job to manage a dealer, uh, manage a law firm or run a company that they built from scratch when they were the only employee or whatever it might be. And there’s challenges associated with that. And what are the, kind of, the top things that you, that are reoccurring or that come up in, in the groups that you run?
[00:12:15] Bob Green: Let’s see. You know, I think… You know, I, I think honestly, measuring, measuring, measuring, measuring the performance because you know, as you’re creating these new jobs and you’re bringing in these new people and you’re adding kind of the scale to your company, sometimes the measures that you’ve used, you know, it’s, it’s more than, it isn’t just what you see, it’s what you don’t see.
[00:12:34] Bob Green: And that’s the important thing is to develop those measures with those people and, and with some more disciplined processes to say. You know, how can I measure what I don’t see because I have to do that. I had, that’s how we can hold each other accountable. So developing all those measures throughout, you know, all those areas of the company so that.
[00:12:50] Bob Green: You know, you don’t have to worry about looking over somebody’s shoulders to verify that something is happening
[00:12:55] Steve Fretzin: or not happening. Yeah, I think in business development and marketing too, there are ways to measure. And again, mostly they’re just ignored and people just keep plugging through and pushing a rope and trying things that may not even be working, but it’s kind of, well, they know, and that’s problematic.
[00:13:11] Steve Fretzin: They’re not getting feedback from their marketing agency or from their people on that, on that point, the thing that I’m seeing. And, and again, you know, mine’s more, my groups are more focused on. You know, growth, but in order to get growth, there needs to be operations. There needs to be time management.
[00:13:27] Steve Fretzin: There needs to be infrastructure and things like that. So I’m hearing on a regular basis, you know, that the disconnect between the baby boomers in the Gen X and the millennials in the Gen Z’s. And there’s a big, you know, big gap between the way that the mindsets of those two groups. So I’m seeing those that come up pretty regularly.
[00:13:47] Steve Fretzin: And also just, I don’t think lawyers are keeping up to date on. The technology and the marketing trends of what’s what’s new and what’s going to be valuable to them that that’s changed from yesterday or from a year ago, but there’s a number of things there, but sometimes it’s the back end stuff that that impacts growth and sometimes it’s the front end stuff of what they’re doing, you know, maybe old school like they’re still out.
[00:14:11] Steve Fretzin: You know, trying to hustle on a golf course when in fact they, they’re not leveraging simple things like getting quality introductions from their clients because they don’t want to, they don’t want to push that button, you know, because that’s a great
[00:14:22] Bob Green: point. Yeah. Yeah. You know, the, the, the technology is a big, it’s an issue for every, no matter, I work with diverse industries too, and it’s the same thing.
[00:14:29] Bob Green: It’s, you know, how can we use technology tools better to, to measure, to engage, whether it’s sales or whether it’s operations, it’s a big issue. And, you know, one of the other, the other parts of it is, um, You know, when you’re, as you know, you know, when we do this, you’re executing a strategy, especially like marketing strategy, it doesn’t always work.
[00:14:48] Bob Green: But the best part is if you do something, it’s better than nothing. And if you do something, you learn from it. And as long as you learn from it, you make adjustments. And then you engage in another strategy or you build on it. What you’ve learned because you did something. But if you don’t have the tools to measure that, and you don’t know what to measure, you know, what do you do next?
[00:15:05] Bob Green: You’re just kind of floating around and creating more problems.
[00:15:09] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And I think, you know, business is, you know, tricky and, and, you know, we hope for small mistakes, but ultimately they add up if, if they’re not dressed. And so one thing that I really love about peer advisory and I maybe, maybe this is kind of floating into like, you know, what’s the real, you know, our ultimate value of it is.
[00:15:27] Steve Fretzin: It’s not a coach or a trainer or a consultant telling you what to do, although that’s, you know, a big part of my business is, you know, listening and finding gaps and trying to advise, suggest, or just pull out the answer from the person who actually knows the answer, but they haven’t been able to pull it out themselves.
[00:15:43] Steve Fretzin: But hearing it from someone that is in a similar role. That has had those challenges, has had those experiences, and has made those mistakes, and learned from them, and they’re saying, look, I did this, this is what happened, it went badly, you don’t want to do that as well, and then you have a choice to make to, to do it or not do it, to follow, you know, to follow that advice or not.
[00:16:03] Steve Fretzin: My hope is that people would follow the advice of someone who, you know, who’s just flat out telling you, this doesn’t work and here’s why. Hey everybody, check this out, you’ve just had a call with a client where they need help with something you don’t do. You’ve reached out to colleagues, you’ve searched the lawyer directories and you simply tell them you don’t know anyone that can help.
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[00:17:46] Steve Fretzin: Now she ranks high on Google, gains clients through ads and engaging content. Tired of feeling insignificant? Make it rain. Visit GetVisible. com and stand out. So when, when you think of peer advisory and the groups that you run. What are some of the things that your clients have told you and the things that you’ve observed as far as, like, what’s ultimately like the top two or three values or takeaways that, that make it worthwhile as far as an endeavor of investing time, money and energy in that type of a, of a group?
[00:18:16] Steve Fretzin: You know, the
[00:18:16] Bob Green: value, Steve, because I’m, I’m, so you just said, you know, focus on sales and marketing is important. I’m actually focused on all the functional areas of the company, building that scale of a, Of a company, because, you know, unlike attorneys that we’re talking about, you know, services or manufacturing or whatever.
[00:18:32] Bob Green: So it’s, you’re, you’re really building a company. That’s more than just, you know, the credentials of a person. It’s more of, you know, the, uh, the differentiation and things like that. But you know, the, the real value of it, Steve is, um, being able to measure the impact of the value of the company. Like what if you, what if you did, you know, want to sell it or what if you, you know, what, what’s, what’s, what’s the bottom line investment on your.
[00:18:56] Bob Green: You’re, you’re, all these changes you’re making improvements, you’re making these conversations and these decisions and the commitments you’re making with you and you’re delegating to your team. But what’s the impact on your profitability? What’s the impact on, you know, how effective people are in your sales and your operations?
[00:19:12] Bob Green: And, and we’re learning how to measure those things and making adjustments, but it really comes down to, you know, oftentimes I work with people who are not really paying themselves as owners, what they’re worth. And, and that’s a big topic, you know, they’re reinvesting a lot, they’re putting a lot into it.
[00:19:27] Bob Green: And, uh, you know, maybe similar with attorneys too, you’re like, Hey, I really believe in myself and I’m going to, I’m going to get paid later. Like, no, you should pay yourself now and later. So that’s, that’s, you know, uh, you, you’ve earned it, right? You should, you should get
[00:19:39] Steve Fretzin: for it. Yeah. I mean, some of it can be literally life altering or changing in the sense of, I’ll give you an example.
[00:19:46] Steve Fretzin: I have a. Yes speakers that come in, uh, to speak with my groups and I’m running five right now and, um, my 300th episode was Jerry Madman, who’s, you know, big, big shot over, you know, big, big player in the class action defense. And, you know, he comes in and he’s giving his. His lessons learned and his experiences and one of them was, you know, for the busy lawyers that are, you know, they’re the name guy.
[00:20:10] Steve Fretzin: They’re their name gal. They’re the one that everyone’s going to see and everything, but they can’t get out of that role. They can’t get out of their way. And he’s. Trying to explain them that’s everyone has that problem but you need to eliminate that problem or you need to minimize that problem you need to bring in just as an example a lieutenant someone that can be your body double someone that that knows almost as much as you that you feel 100% secure handing over clients to and having more of a team approach so that everything isn’t always on you every call isn’t for you.
[00:20:40] Steve Fretzin: Every meeting isn’t for you that it frees you up to say, look, if you want this done right, you know, here’s, you know, here’s my my best person. This is the one you want on this matter. And if, if there’s something that you need me to bring in on me in on, great. And that, just that one lesson alone for the, for the rainmakers and the managing partners who are feeling everything is on them was like, oh my God.
[00:21:01] Steve Fretzin: It was like a, a wave over all of my people. Of there is hope that I can run this thing and grow this thing and not have everything being weighed on me. And it’s like they’d never heard that before. So, and there’s like that times a hundred of those kinds of aha moments and those kinds of experiences that they’re sharing with each other.
[00:21:23] Steve Fretzin: They’re sharing that from the guest speaker, from the people I’m bringing in, from me, whatever it might be. And it’s like, that’s worth its weight in gold. I mean, you might go your entire career and never figure that out.
[00:21:33] Bob Green: You know, Steve, that’s a great, that’s a great point. And I, uh, you know, I think of it as being a better teacher, but one of the ways I try to frame it up is, uh, an expression, uh, I heard from Graham Nash talking to his friend David Crosby.
[00:21:45] Bob Green: What David was really struggling with some really bad choices, you know, and alcoholism and serving time in prison and, and, uh, Graham Nash asked him, who are you when you’re not famous? Because when you’re not famous, you’re kind of, you’re kind of a mess. And, uh, but in a good way, I asked people, you know, who they are when they’re not famous, because again, you know, why should you be a teacher?
[00:22:04] Bob Green: Because you want to do other things, you know, what is your personal vision? What do you want from this, this life? Not just. To be, as you said, the busy, the hero, the person feeling all the, you know, being the, the single source of wisdom, you know, be a better teacher. Let’s, let’s help people rise up and let’s develop the processes and you learned it along the way.
[00:22:23] Bob Green: Somebody else can learn it with you, you know, may take them even less time because you’ve made, you know, some, some of the mistakes that you can help people avoid. So let’s get that in order. And, uh, but yeah, yeah, write down what you want. What do you want from all this other than answering phone calls all the time, being a genius.
[00:22:38] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, and being in a room with people that can keep things confidential, that’s outside of your business, outside of your firm, where you just feel comfortable with, like, really good people that are all similarly situated, that have problems and solutions and ideas and challenges and everything all together, and then to feel that comfort of, like, hey, this is my, sort of, my family away from my firm, away from my actual family, Where I can talk business and, and share my problems and be vulnerable.
[00:23:08] Steve Fretzin: And that’s something that most lawyers really don’t want to do in their firm. You know, it’s showing weakness can, can sometimes, you know, be seen that way. And so being in a room with people that aren’t going to judge you and are just there to help you. That’s incredibly powerful.
[00:23:26] Bob Green: It is, Stephen. There’s one more thing too, that I, I found it builds on that is sometimes, you know, we have some pretty personal conversations about life and, and maybe difficult decisions about somebody in the company.
[00:23:37] Bob Green: And, uh, you know, that’s just not a conversation for, for in your company. It’s just not. And you need a place to step out and say, Hey, I need some outside perspective here from people that, again, like you said, Oh, I know, and I trust and I respect. And there’s no other place you’re going to do that. And a lot of times your spouse doesn’t want to hear that either.
[00:23:53] Bob Green: So. Even though that might be a safe place, your spouse says, that doesn’t really interest me. That’s not
[00:23:57] Steve Fretzin: my thing. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, one of the, also the things is I’ve identified is that people that are willing and interested in investing in themselves and their career and their path, generally, those are nice people.
[00:24:10] Steve Fretzin: Um, they’re not the big egos. They’re not the, the, the maniac, you know, running up and down the hall screaming and putting everyone down people that are interested in self growth and improvement. Those are the people you want to be in a room with. Those are the people that are gonna that you want to surround yourself with and all the top books on on self help, say, surround yourself with the best people.
[00:24:30] Steve Fretzin: And when you can put those kinds of groups together, and maybe it’s a group of strangers, I mean, they’re a stranger before they meet, and then to watch them come together for accountability, for assisting each other with ideas and challenges and all that, I mean, for me, I, I exit the meetings that I run And I just feel like I’m on top of a mountain, like I’m on top of a tower, just like, I, you know, I just, you know, and I, you know, I’m not taking responsibility for what happened in that meeting because that was all on them, but I’m, I’m taking, I’m just so happy that, that they’re, you know, I’m getting an email, Steve, that was a fricking great meeting.
[00:25:06] Steve Fretzin: Wow. What an amazing speaker. You really nailed it. This did again. I’m not coaching. I’m not training. I’m not in the, I’m not in that space in these groups. And to get that kind of feedback is, and then to know that people are going to stay in it, you know, I, I put them in a year contract and then after that, it’s month to month and they stay because of that camaraderie, the value.
[00:25:25] Steve Fretzin: And, you know, I don’t think it’s a big investment for what they’re getting, but man, it’s, it’s so rewarding. And I just wish I had started sooner. I’ve only done it maybe three, three and a half years, but, uh, yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know. Do you feel that way?
[00:25:38] Bob Green: No, I tell you what, Steve, I, I feel the same way.
[00:25:39] Bob Green: And, and, you know, what’s fun about it is. You and I both know we don’t have to worry about being the smartest person in the room because there are a lot of smart people in the room. And it’s funny how that, that, that facilitation where we’re creating this context, right, for the conversation, that’s all we’re doing.
[00:25:53] Bob Green: And yet, uh, you know, I, I feel just as great as they do. You know, we all share in the joy because we did this together and that’s, that, that’s the magic of it. And, uh, Yeah, so it really is. It’s, it’s an awesome feeling. And like you said, when people get together like that, it’s like, uh, I try to explain to people who have never really done this or, you know, maybe I’ve been a fly on the wall and some other kind of more, uh, passive kind of experiences.
[00:26:16] Bob Green: This is like a series of star Wars adventures. It’s one adventure after another. And, you know, just when you think you’re, you’ve been revered, like when Mary said, Hey, we didn’t think we’d see you back here again. It’s like, here we go again, another adventure, you know, the bad guys are coming again, or maybe it’s the good guys.
[00:26:30] Bob Green: Right. And, uh, and that’s what it’s like every month. It’s like another story. And just, you know, those people in that room show up for you and they’ve got your back every time. And it’s really great. It’s
[00:26:39] Steve Fretzin: like a Disney keeps spinning off Boba Fett and, uh, Soca and all these days, just showing how nerdy we are.
[00:26:44] Steve Fretzin: Right, Bob?
[00:26:45] Bob Green: But the great part is we don’t have to be Jon Favreau, right?
[00:26:49] Steve Fretzin: That’s right. And then the last question, I mean, maybe this kind of came out in our conversation, but what’s the return on investment? And I don’t mean that necessarily just about the financial investment, but what’s the return on investment from your, from the members of your groups that, from what you can, from what you’ve heard and from what you can tell and what you can track and measure, as you’ve said earlier.
[00:27:11] Bob Green: Well, you know, from, uh, from the personal feedback is, uh, You know, oftentimes the people in that first group conversation, they’ll step out and say, you know, that’s the best conversation I’ve had in a few years. And, and genuinely did just stop and, you know, with a serious expression, I mean, not, not a whimsical smile, that’s the personal level.
[00:27:31] Bob Green: Um, but you know, the other part of it is when, when they started looking at, you know, the impact on, on bottom line and the, and the impact on, you know, wow, I never thought about what else I could do with this company. I just thought about working really hard and not wanting to work for someone else. You know, you start changing that conversation and they start to see this company form, this real entity thing that’s going to keep growing like a machine without them.
[00:27:57] Bob Green: And they, they just keep stepping farther away and they start to feel that freedom about it. Wow. I can go home and I’m not going to answer my phone at seven o’clock at night. That’s great. I’m not going to answer email at nine o’clock. I’m not going to have to, you know, skip out to back somebody up at 10 a.
[00:28:10] Bob Green: m. in the morning. That lived experience where they start telling each other and me those stories, that’s, that’s the lived experience and it’s, and it’s a, it’s about the money and about the freedom all at once.
[00:28:22] Steve Fretzin: I mean, it’s, it’s the dream come true for many people that it isn’t about the grind every minute, every day through the weekend, living out of your inbox, like there’s hope.
[00:28:32] Steve Fretzin: And there’s actual people who have done it that you’re in a room with that can say, here’s how I did it. Here’s how you can do it. I mean, here’s what it takes to get it done. And that’s just something that isn’t, isn’t, you know, shared in law school. It isn’t shared in necessarily an MBA program. I mean, those are life experiences that now I was thinking back to the, the back to school with, um, With Rodney Dangerfield and he’s in that class, you remember that movie?
[00:28:55] Steve Fretzin: And he’s in that glass and the guy’s telling him, like, here’s how a manufacturing thing works. And he’s like, well, you got the bribes and you got the this and you got this. It’s all the real world stuff that he had experienced, you know, building, you know, multi, you know, million dollar businesses. And the guy’s like, well, that’s not what we are.
[00:29:09] Steve Fretzin: We talk about widgets in this class and that, but the real world stuff is really what I think carries the day for most attorneys that are looking to get ahead and live the dream and live the best life. Really great stuff though. Hey, moving into our. Gay will be listed before we get to our game. You have game changing podcast game changing, but I just want to make a comment about you, Bob, because I met you really met you and got to speak with you for the first time at, um, at a charity golf outing.
[00:29:36] Steve Fretzin: That was for a friend of through Tom ladder Ray, who runs a charity B to B. Um, and it was for folks dealing with, you know, cancer and our friend, uh, David Bendo of having, uh, glioblastoma and we, we put that together with the help of provisors to raise money. And here you walk up to me and you’ve got this huge mega card that you had brought for him and you don’t, you didn’t even know David, correct?
[00:30:00] Steve Fretzin: Right. Right. You never met David. So here you never met David. You came to this golf outing, you’re putting your money up, you’re putting your time up and here you show up with this big card and then we walked around together to get it signed by people for David. I handed it to him and tears in his eyes and in really, you know, all of a clumped and all that.
[00:30:16] Steve Fretzin: After getting it, and um, I just wanted to mention, you know, that, just to compliment your character, like, there’s a lot of people I know that have character, and yours came out right away in our first real meeting, and I just, I just, for the people listening, you know, Bob Green’s the real deal, and he demonstrates that not through his words, but through his actions, and that’s a rare thing these days, we really need to celebrate, People that step up and do, do good deeds.
[00:30:40] Steve Fretzin: And you, you certainly did in that, in that day. And I appreciate you being on the show and sharing your wisdom with, with everybody here today as well. Oh,
[00:30:47] Bob Green: thanks. Steven. As you mentioned, you know, what our mutual friend, Tom, it’s fun to be invited to be a part of that community, that great tradition. I thought, well, how, what can I add to what, what can I bring to Thanksgiving dinner, suppose,
[00:30:58] Steve Fretzin: you know?
[00:30:58] Steve Fretzin: But most people just put up their money or they, they show up to play golf and that’s fine. And again, I, I celebrate that, but you, you stepped up in a different way and it, it made a big difference to me. And I know it made a big difference to David. All right. So enough of the, the schmoozy stuff, let’s get to the game changing podcast or game changing book and the game changing book that you recommended that you’re recommending is called the theory of constraints.
[00:31:19] Steve Fretzin: And, uh, do you want to just mention, uh, that’s what Is it Eli
[00:31:22] Bob Green: Goldratt? Eli Goldratt, yeah. He was a physicist who, who applied scientific principles to manufacturing. A genius, just a, it’s a great book. See, so that, that book is a story. It’s a story about a guy goes into manufacturing and he’s a plant manager.
[00:31:37] Bob Green: He’s trying to turn around the operation and he’s spending all this time at the office and his wife is frustrated because he’s never home. And they bought this big equipment called the NCX 17 that is going to transform the whole operation. And the operation just flops because it isn’t, this machine is really great, but it’s everything around the, the machine that’s constraining and, and the, those constraints are in the process.
[00:32:00] Bob Green: So his job is to uncover what all those constraints are so they can utilize this machine and recognize the value. Cause it isn’t one thing, it’s everything. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You got to look around and that’s just a, it’s like a love story for manufacturing. Yeah.
[00:32:13] Steve Fretzin: It’s like moving, moving parts. They’re all over.
[00:32:15] Steve Fretzin: And then you think you’ve got one solution, but then you’ve got five other problems. Before we wrap up, I just want to take a moment to thank our sponsors. Of course, we’ve got overture. law. Uh, helping you make money and guess what? You don’t even have to do the work. Uh, you can just send it out to other attorneys and, uh, and get paid and also, you know, get more business yourself.
[00:32:35] Steve Fretzin: So it’s a win win situation. Check out Overture and then of course Moneypenny who’s just rocking it. Um, you, you know, you’re tired of paying for, uh, full time receptionist or you got the stupid, um, you know, uh, phone tree, that’s awful, don’t do it. Look to Moneypenny, and of course we’ve got GetVisible and they’re just rock stars in the marketing space for lawyers.
[00:32:54] Steve Fretzin: If you check out fretsin. com, you’ll see some of the awesome work they did on my website. So, check out our sponsors, they’re terrific. And I also want to mention, we’re still giving away a copy, a free copy of Sales Free Selling, which is my book, which was written as a parable. Now not the Theory of Constraints, but based off of the book, The Goal, which is another manufacturing book that I read to understand how to write as a parable.
[00:33:17] Steve Fretzin: And I wrote this book about a lawyer, an entrepreneur, and a salesman, that salesperson that meet a coach. It’s his name’s Scott. You know, wink, wink, it’s me. And he basically talks about how selling is dead and we need to have a different approach. And I came up with this, this concept called sales free selling, and it really gives away a lot of my tips and tricks on how to run a meeting to get the best possible outcome without ever feeling salesy.
[00:33:39] Steve Fretzin: So lawyers, I know you can appreciate that. You just have to go to my website to grab a copy. It is, uh, fretson. com slash sales dash free dash selling. And you can grab that right away. And, um, thank you again, Bob, just again, I’m, I’m a big fan and, uh, shout out to Provisors and I know we’re both leveraging that to the degree, you know, the most that we can and just thanks for being on the show and, and, and sharing your wisdom.
[00:34:03] Steve Fretzin: And if people want to get in touch with you, they think, Hey, I’d love to, to, to learn more about, uh, TAB, the Alternative Board North Shore. How do they reach you?
[00:34:12] Bob Green: Find me on LinkedIn or send me a direct message at Bob at TAB North Shore dot
[00:34:16] Steve Fretzin: com. Awesome, man. Fantastic. And thank you everybody for spending some time with Bob and I today.
[00:34:21] Steve Fretzin: Hopefully you got a couple. Good ideas and also some, uh, some, some understanding of what peer advisory is all about. It may or may not be a fit for you now or in the future, but, um, I recommend checking it out and, and thinking about, yes, it’s great to hire a coach and I’m obviously a big fan of that. So is Bob.
[00:34:35] Steve Fretzin: There’s also something to be said about coaching from your peers that, that have those similar and shared experiences that are highly motivated to grow as you are. So you can check that at fretson. com or, or go to, uh, what’s your website? Is it the alternative board North shore?
[00:34:50] Bob Green: You can just go to just thealternativewar.
[00:34:52] Bob Green: com.
[00:34:53] Steve Fretzin: And then find the North Shore guy. Awesome. Yep. Awesome. Fantastic. All right. Everybody. Thanks again. And, uh, hope we’re helping you every single week to be that lawyer. Someone who’s confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. Take care, everybody. Be safe. Be well. We’ll talk again real soon.
[00:35:12] Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, Fretzin. com, for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business. Development and marketing trends for more information and important links about today’s episode check out today’s show notes