Chelsea Williams: Personal Finance for Lawyers

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Chelsea Williams discuss:

  • Why personal finance is so key to living a healthy, balanced life.
  • The formulas for success at your firm and as an individual.
  • The most common mistakes lawyers make around money.
  • Tips for taking control of your money today.
  • How to stay on top of your finances.

Key Takeaways:

  • Watch out for lifestyle creep. It doesn’t matter how much you make if you keep spending more than you bring in.
  • Track your money. Having a personal budget is not restricting, it is setting a financial boundary.
  • There are only two ways to change how much money you spend: you can trim the fat (even if it is just a rogue subscription) or through negotiating your expenses.
  • It is the small things that bite into your spending. The biggest takers are Amazon, software, and subscriptions.

“It doesn’t just stop at the money story, we have to hold all of our numbers accountable.” —  Chelsea Williams

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Episode References: 

About Chelsea Williams: Chelsea has invested ten years of expertise into understanding law firm finance in order to create a framework that any law firm owner can follow to achieve time and money freedom. She’s uncovered the common mistakes and struggles law firm owners face that keep them from profitability. Her company partners with law firms to establish a solid financial foundation and works with them to build the framework that gets them to a place of financial clarity, direction, and freedom.

Connect with Chelsea Williams:  








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Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

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Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.


[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hello, my Be That Lawyer friends. Before we dive in today’s show, I have a small favor to ask. My mission in the legal industry is to help legal professionals like you take law practice growth seriously. I hope you’re finding value in this podcast and it’s aiding you in growing your law practice. Now, it only takes a moment to make a positive impact on someone’s life.

[00:00:19] Steve Fretzin: If you’re enjoying the show, please help us spread the word. A kind review or five star rating would go a long way in helping us reach more of your amazing colleagues. Thank you for your support, and now, let’s get on to the show.

[00:00:35] Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

[00:00:57] Steve Fretzin: Well, hey everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the Be That Lawyer with Fretzin podcast. We are here to help you be that lawyer, someone who’s confident, organized, and a skilled brain maker. The show continues to evolve and I’ve got people listening all over the world. I just got a call from a gentleman in Saudi Arabia.

[00:01:13] Steve Fretzin: Who, uh, heard the podcast and, and it’s really wonderful that it’s becoming more of an international thing, but, uh, uh, let’s keep that rock and rolling. So if you’re enjoying the show, please tell a friend, please give us a kind review. Let’s spread the word and continue to get some positive vibes out there for us.

[00:01:28] Steve Fretzin: Right, Chels? That’s all about positive vibes. That’s exactly what it’s about. All right. Well, we’re going to continue having some positive vibes starting off with our quote of the show. And this is a very straightforward one. Accounting is the language of business. Uh, and that’s a Warren Buffet, Buffett, I know I’m joking.

[00:01:43] Steve Fretzin: Um, anyway, great to have you on the show. This is your second time? I think it’s my third. Third time. Yeah. We have some good episodes. If I had known that. No, I still would have you. We’re here. There you go. We’re gonna keep 

[00:01:54] Chelsea Williams: doing 

[00:01:55] Steve Fretzin: it. I can’t, I can’t keep you away. Um, which is, which is great. Cause you’re one of my favorite people.

[00:01:59] Steve Fretzin: You’re one of my favorite people to talk lawyers with and, uh, and, um, so talk a little bit about that, that quote and why that’s the quote of the show today. 

[00:02:07] Chelsea Williams: Yeah. And you know, today we’re talking about it on a different level. So we always have money conversations, but today we’re talking about personal finance, which is really exciting to me.

[00:02:17] Chelsea Williams: And it really ties in with this quote, because first of all, Warren Buffett understood that in order to have, you know, financial literacy is a literacy and it is like another language. There are words that go above people’s heads and make them shrink and get scared and back off. But. Um, what I want to help people today with is that like your personal finances, just as much a business as if you own a business, the same exact concepts apply, there are still formulas.

[00:02:45] Chelsea Williams: The formulas just look different. And so even if you’re in your personal money, like you have to learn this language, you really do, and there’s, it’s not that difficult, it’s not that hard, but once you learn it. It is literally the only way to financial freedom and that’s all we are really looking for here 

[00:03:00] Steve Fretzin: and I think it’s it when we spoke about having you back on the show and we I think both of our eyes lit up when we talked about the topic of personal finance because we can talk about the importance of bookkeeping within a law firm and I think we’ll probably touch on that a little bit.

[00:03:16] Steve Fretzin: But then it’s like alright so there’s people making a little money there’s people making a lot of money and sometimes they’re actually making the same money you might actually bringing in a half a million a year but you’re not really you know you’re not really you know socking it away or you’re not really investing it right you’re not doing the right stuff with your.

[00:03:32] Steve Fretzin: Hacks and there’s a bunch of different ways to skin that cat um but before we jump in chelsea williams you are the chief financial architect of course solutions group i’ve been on the show a bunch of times give everybody a little bit of flavor of. Why you love the numbers so much. 

[00:03:48] Chelsea Williams: Yeah. Well, you know, when I first discovered that me and numbers could have really easy fluid conversations and like we really understood each other, I ran with it, not really knowing what the heck I was going to do.

[00:03:59] Chelsea Williams: But over the past 10 years, I’ve been building a business that caters to law firms, which when it boils down to it, are just businesses and business owners or people trying to make a living and do this thing, you know, And so my knowledge has really evolved over the past 17 years to not just come in and offer the things that you need to do a next level thinking, and then bridge that gap between what’s happening in your business and how you can manage business finance and have it translate to personal, because you’re absolutely right.

[00:04:26] Chelsea Williams: You can make a ton of money. And at the end of the day, still ask yourself where the heck did it go? 

[00:04:31] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there are people, there are people making a million dollars a year or more. I don’t know that they have their five twenty nine for their kids set up i don’t know that they you know that they’re just not recognizing that like as you make more you tend to try to you know you’re living that lifestyle that that may not may not be the smartest way but we’ll we’ll dive into that in a minute so your background is with numbers and in working with law firms for a long for a number of years now so what what’s unique about lawyers maybe than other professions as it relates to the business in in the money side of things.

[00:05:08] Chelsea Williams: Yeah, so there are definitely, you know, like I said, there’s formulas and everything to every version of success, but the, the numbers and the formulas that you use are different. And for lawyers and law firms, your numbers are different. There are some nuances in the legal space. Another thing with any group of people focused people is the mindset, right?

[00:05:30] Chelsea Williams: The, the psychology of even approaching the numbers. And I really like working with. Lawyers, because. You know, they’re used to being in this position where they have all the answers and with financial management They just don’t and so we get to be that safe space where they come and have these conversations And learn without any fear of judgment 

[00:05:51] Steve Fretzin: Well, and I just you know, we could say lawyers are a unique breed for a number of different reasons Um, I think a lot of them go into law because they’re not math people Um, there are some that are but and hopefully I don’t get in trouble saying that but I I think that’s the case Uh, my father was an accountant and a lawyer.

[00:06:07] Steve Fretzin: So he was a numbers guy You But, um, you, you know, you mentioned something about like the literacy or the illiteracy of, of, of talking money. What does that mean? 

[00:06:17] Chelsea Williams: Yeah. So just knowing how money moves, how many speaks, what it means, what your options are, cause we can listen to professionals and gurus and get money advice or how to invest, but the truth is the literacy comes in when you know your options, there’s no one way to financial freedom.

[00:06:35] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. So let’s, let’s get into the weeds then about, about this. So let’s, let’s start off with just backtracking to what are the key things that lawyers need to do to protect their money and manage their money better at a firm level. And again, not everybody that’s listening is a solo small firm. Some of you guys might be, you know, working at big firms, that’s fine, but let’s just, let’s just talk about how is that managed maybe in a small firm level.

[00:07:02] Chelsea Williams: I mean, the first step, whether you’re a firm or an individual is. Measuring your money tracking your money, because what doesn’t get measured doesn’t get done. Right? And so the, the, the word that people avoid personally is the word budget. Do you have a personal budget? It sounds so restricting, right? But what it is, is it’s financial boundaries.

[00:07:24] Chelsea Williams: And that’s step one, no matter who you are, we have to look at the numbers. How much are you making? How are you making that money? Because, you know, multiple streams of income and each stream has a different formula. And where is that money going? And just bringing awareness to your financial position now can do so much for you.

[00:07:44] Chelsea Williams:

[00:07:44] Steve Fretzin: mean, is there a way since, you know, my jam is the business development to say, look, we’re setting goals to bring in a, you know, 500, 000 into this solo practice. And based on then like how they look at overhead, how they look at tax, they look at, you know, like just making sure that like, they’re going to make the, you know, the money that they want to make, like, how do they budget for that?

[00:08:07] Chelsea Williams: Yeah. So, you know, again, knowing where your money goes and creating boundaries and knowing if you don’t hit your revenue goals, or if you do, how that affects your expenses. And even if, you know, even if you’re not a law firm owner, even if you’re that lawyer who gets compensated for doing what you do, you still have overhead expenses.

[00:08:26] Chelsea Williams: You still have opportunity to invest. And delegate, right? Even though you’re not taking on the entire business responsibility. And a lot of it comes into, cause we have this idea that to solve a problem, we can throw some money at it. Right. Or there’s this myth out there. That’s like, you have to spend money to make money.

[00:08:44] Chelsea Williams: But time and time again, it’s proven that that’s not the only option. And when you have some structured way of managing your money, like a budget, you’re forced to get creative and think outside the lines. You know, for things that you would otherwise just throw money at. 

[00:09:00] Steve Fretzin: So what, what are the, like the most common mistakes that lawyers at law firms make with, you know, and again, I know, you know, we’re not tracking the money and maybe we’re, we’re saying yes to too many things and, and too many, uh, you know, marketing opportunities and you know, they’re getting hit up to spend money constantly, but no one’s hitting them up to help them save money.

[00:09:21] Chelsea Williams: Um, so outside of all of that, it’s knowing like, what are you even working for? Like I said, we’re all going for financial freedom. There’s so many different ways to get there, but have we actually taken the time to sit down and say, this is what I want in my life of financial freedom. I want to travel this many times a year.

[00:09:39] Chelsea Williams: I want to spend time with the grandkids. I want to have these houses and these places and these things. And there’s a dollar amount to each of those things. Like you and I were just talking, you worked with, uh, somebody like a retirement professional who started mapping out your version of financial freedom and pinned numbers to it.

[00:09:58] Chelsea Williams: When we have a specific target, we also have a specific direction and we have a goal outside of ourselves to answer to when it comes to our numbers. So when we’re looking at expenses and do I want to take this extra vacation or spend, you know, 3, 000 on this program, is it going to change that trajectory?

[00:10:17] Chelsea Williams: And also knowing what’s an investment in that trajectory, right? So again, even if you’re not a law firm, if you’re an attorney, you can make investments in yourself, like your program, like your roundtables that yields a monetary ROI that gets you to that goal faster, even though you’re spending money up front.

[00:10:36] Steve Fretzin: Well, yeah. So you just want to look at, at the investment and what, what are the numbers, what’s the ROI and, you know, you’ve got, you know, for many firms that are dealing with, you know, pay per click and SEO and websites and social media and VAs and all this stuff that we can throw money at to try to build business and make it sustainable.

[00:10:55] Steve Fretzin: And then it’s not being tracked and measured, right? So then we just, we’re just keep doing it until we. At some point, get frustrated and go, this isn’t really helping. 

[00:11:04] Chelsea Williams: Yeah, exactly. And those are the numbers behind the money, right? Cause it doesn’t just stop at the money story. Like we have to hold all of our numbers accountable.

[00:11:13] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, but I mean, I will, I do, I hate to say this to lawyers, but I do sometimes that, you know, money doesn’t solve all their problems, but it sure does help. Uh, you know, when you can, when you can bring in the business and develop clients and, and, and know that, you know, yeah, you may have issues then staffing, or you might have issues with, you know, you want to get the work done, but that’s a far better problem in some ways than, than, you know, Hey, how do I pay my rent, you know, this month?

[00:11:36] Chelsea Williams: Oh, absolutely. Like, let’s not lie to ourselves. Money really helps in life and everything. 

[00:11:43] Steve Fretzin: Right. Yeah. It does it does and you know, I’ve got my son’s 529 pretty much done and now granted only one kid so easier easier than multiples, but you know, there’s there’s a sense of relief when you have, you know, retirement done or when you have Your 529 funded or when you just you just know that you’re not, you know, you you can continue making money but but you know at some point you don’t have to anymore, but it’s just then it just becomes like Um, it just becomes icing on the cake.

[00:12:11] Chelsea Williams: Absolutely. And you bring up kids, like imagine you listener and you see like, you now know all these things about money and how to make it, keep it, invest it, leverage compound growth in that space. Like you learn the language of money and you have kids. And now you can pass that down to them because I think that’s what happens to a lot of us Our parents had no financial education because it’s really not out there being presented like it should And therefore we’re just kind of learning some of these things in adulthood, which can make you feel a type of way

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[00:14:42] Steve Fretzin: You know that the personal finance side like what are the things that someone listening right now could do to start getting more educated better educated on their finance so like let’s just as an example. I’m there just not seeing the money come in the way it’s supposed to come in and they’re just not sure where it’s all going like how do we get this under control.

[00:15:03] Chelsea Williams: Yeah. So looking at it and asking those questions is where we start. If you look at how much money you’re making and you think you should be making more, then we need to go three layers deep. That’s, that’s, uh, something that I use with my clients. Why we can’t just ask why once, right? We have to ask an answer.

[00:15:20] Chelsea Williams: Why three times, typically you get to gold when you get to that third ask. And then ask, how can I make more money or go find the information? We’re all out here researching, right? There’s no course on your specific situation. Um, so look at what your pressure point is. Like, where are you feeling it the most now?

[00:15:40] Chelsea Williams: Is it that you’re not making enough or you’re not keeping enough? Cause there is some pretty quick fixes for being able to keep enough money. 

[00:15:46] Steve Fretzin: Well let’s let’s talk but let’s talk about that so let’s so let’s say that that that the money’s fixed someone’s got a salary or someone’s got their law firm on autopilot and it’s making it’s producing a half a million a year.

[00:15:58] Steve Fretzin: And that’s great right half a million a year but they’re not seeing it they’re not they’re not able to sock money away they’re not necessarily. You know they got it you know they’re the you know there’s a tax issue like that comes up or something that happens where they’re like behind like how does how do lawyers start to evaluate.

[00:16:16] Steve Fretzin: The money going out. 

[00:16:19] Chelsea Williams: Yeah. So there’s really only two ways that we can change how much money we spend, right? We can trim fat, which nine times out of 10, if you look at your transactions, there is fat to trim, even if it’s a, if it’s a subscription that you forgot about. 

[00:16:33] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. 

[00:16:34] Chelsea Williams: The 2nd way and the least recognized is negotiating, negotiating your expenses.

[00:16:40] Chelsea Williams: There are companies out there that get paid commission because they negotiate things like your utility bills and your, your phone and your Internet and all of those things. For for law firms negotiating and always shopping around for insurance and merchant fees There’s just kind of these housekeeping maintenance items that if we just once a year come to the negotiation table We can usually always usually save some costs there.

[00:17:08] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Yeah I mean I I did that with insurance this year and uh What made a huge difference because they wanted to double my insurance and I just had to spend a little extra time shopping around to figure out You You know what to do and it ended up saving me, you know, five six thousand dollars a year Because I just took a little extra time to ask around and figure out where to go Um people don’t know where their money is going Is that one of the biggest problems is that just it’s just gone and it’s it’s restaurants.

[00:17:35] Steve Fretzin: It’s travel It’s it’s all the extra things that we just don’t like. I know what my mortgage is I know what my at& t bill is for our cell phones Like I I know what those numbers are but there’s there’s that the fixed numbers and then there’s all the X, you know, the incidentals, the concert tickets and 

[00:17:52] Chelsea Williams: the office supply.

[00:17:54] Chelsea Williams: Yes. Yeah. And like, that’s just what it is. It’s so easy day to day to just swipe the card and be like, Oh, I got it in my head. The big things are covered, but it’s the small things that are really biting into your profits. Things like that. 

[00:18:08] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. What are the top offenders? Amazon software and subscriptions.

[00:18:15] Steve Fretzin: Boy, you answered that quickly. I thought you’d give it a second or pause, not a pause at all. Am surfing Amazon is crushing to me. I mean, I’m buying a lot of stuff that’s like 10 and 15. So it’s not terrible, but I, I, I can see people, you know, wanting that. You know, regular package a day. It’s like, you know, birthdays every day with Amazon.

[00:18:35] Chelsea Williams: It’s here’s what we’re combating personally. And for business owners, your business financial habits are your personal financial habits. So we see it here too. What we’re combating is instant gratification. This world that we’re living in right now is designed to give us what we want, when we want it and next day shipping.

[00:18:54] Chelsea Williams: Sometimes same day shipping, right? That’s what a credit card is. It’s, Hey, you can spend this money, but you don’t got to pay now. And that’s all they’re available to you. So when we’re looking through expenses and how we can keep more money, what we’re really challenged with our financial habit 

[00:19:11] Steve Fretzin: or financial habits, right?

[00:19:12] Steve Fretzin: And the worst is having credit card debt, right? I mean, you’re just, you’re just yeah. Can i get destroyed if you have credit card debt so i you know i clean out my cards every year um i get my points but i they’re every you know month they’re fully paid look that’s not a braggart ego that’s i think just common common sense but you have to take a look at what you’re spending and and uh and most people don’t they don’t go through like i go through my bank account i go through my credit cards make sure every charges.

[00:19:38] Steve Fretzin: It’s a little, a little my father in me doing that, I think, but, you know, you should see the way he used to look at a check. He’d get the bill at the end of a meal. He’d sit there and like, every little detail to make sure that’s right. He’d 

[00:19:48] Chelsea Williams: pick 

[00:19:48] Steve Fretzin: it apart. He’d pick it apart and sometimes, you know, if I ordered the dessert, he’d give me like, he’d look up at me and I could tell.

[00:19:53] Steve Fretzin: He just saw the dessert charge, you know. But, uh, you know, 

[00:19:56] Chelsea Williams: we need a little bit of that in us. Like we have to, we’re due diligence with our money. And like, again, it’s really easy to just swipe the card and not think that it’s adding up. But when you face the numbers and when you measure where your money is going, then you can look back and be like, man, I just, I spent 5, 000 last year on.

[00:20:15] Chelsea Williams: Eating out if I would have invested that multiply that by seven percent compounded on average and was it You know, can you make a few changes and reallocate that money into something that’s gonna serve your financial future? Not your instant gratification 

[00:20:31] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, and this might be a plug for you or or you know, my new financial planner justin crane who’s um Been amazing to work with i’ll i’ll Put his information in the show notes, but, um, like to walk through my P and L with me, and you did that, you did the same thing for me to make sure everything was, was above board and labeled correctly.

[00:20:48] Steve Fretzin: And, but he went through it to like, look at 2023, 2024, 2022. Like what’s changed. What’s different. What do I have budgeted? What do I need? What do I need to make? He put together like a full blown personal finance, you know, um, uh, P and L for me. So it’s like that kind of stuff so i mean i guess i’m just saying like get professional help like if you’re just not if that’s not you and that’s not me like i’m not a detail person i need professional help i need my bookkeeper my cpa and my financial planner to all.

[00:21:18] Steve Fretzin: Essentially like dumb stuff down for me so that i can get through it cuz i hate it i hate dealing in the numbers different than you love it you know that’s your that’s your stuff and i i’m just like i just hate that it’s even a part of my life. 

[00:21:31] Chelsea Williams: No you’re absolutely right like you have to bring on your key financial players.

[00:21:35] Chelsea Williams: You don’t know what you don’t know, and you got to go find somebody, whether it’s a course online, whether it’s watching YouTube videos, you have to find somebody, but it is worth investing. In a shortcut, especially when it comes to something like this, because one run through of your numbers. Can save you decimals down the road.

[00:21:56] Steve Fretzin: And so what are, what are, you know, I know one thing that you mentioned in, in is, is a possible solution was, you know, tracking your numbers, but then how do people keep on top of it? Is there, is there something that they can do to ensure that, that, that, you know, years don’t go by or a year goes by without really looking at the numbers from their business or their personal finances?

[00:22:18] Chelsea Williams: With businesses, I mean, you absolutely, it’s a non negotiable. You’d have to track your numbers every month by a professional, unless you want to go to school and learn how to be an accountant. And that’s just not the highest and best use of your time. But personally, I, there’s an app that I love called rocket money.

[00:22:35] Chelsea Williams: And they give you a free trial and what they really sell people on is, Hey, we’ll identify all of your subscriptions. And if you want to cancel them, we’ll cancel them for you. Eight out of 10 people that download the free version of that app automatically save money because a lot of us have a lot of things going on in our finance that we don’t know or remember are happening.

[00:22:54] Chelsea Williams: So immediately they almost pay for themselves. But after that, it’s basically like accounting software for you personally, where it will automatically code and, you know, allocate where your money’s going. So at least you can log into your app and have some type of a visual of where your money’s gone.

[00:23:13] Steve Fretzin: Okay. And I think there’s also an app for like tracking subscriptions. I don’t know what that is. I think I just heard it on. I know 

[00:23:21] Chelsea Williams: wonder if it’s rocket money because that’s what the rocket money 

[00:23:24] Steve Fretzin: okay it 

[00:23:25] Chelsea Williams: might be that’s like their main message but they’re really like a a tracking app okay 

[00:23:31] Steve Fretzin: because I think it’s like I have you know let’s say.

[00:23:34] Steve Fretzin: You know a half a dozen or more streaming subscriptions and maybe i’m double paying for hbo and it would pick up on that it would like all those apps together and recognize all my subscriptions and then help me cut back. Yeah so yeah if rocket money does that then great that might be that might be might be good to do.

[00:23:50] Steve Fretzin: So you mentioned it, you know, I just want to kind of, I don’t know if this is a wrap up, you know, in the next couple of minutes on this, but It’s it’s I think it’s become clear that, um, people, business professionals are doing a very good job of of tracking things and of making it a sustainable thing. So what are the things that you do specifically for lawyers and law firms?

[00:24:14] Steve Fretzin: That get them on a track where they can start not only making the money, but actually, you know, better leveraging it in their favor, 

[00:24:23] Chelsea Williams: easy implementation is using a cash management system. Like profit first, this system, I use it personally for myself. Uh, and we help business clients set it up all the time.

[00:24:36] Chelsea Williams: And basically what it is is the new age envelope system. And there’s still, if you like reading, read the book, Mike McCallum X has a cheesy sense of humor that I really appreciate. Okay. But there’s so much psychology behind this multi bank account system, um, as to why it works so well, but it is as automated as it is going to get managing your cash in a business or in your personal life, and it automatically sets those boundaries for your spending to where if you overspend.

[00:25:07] Chelsea Williams: You’ll see the money’s gone. You don’t have everything else bunching up in your bank account, giving you this false idea that you have more money than you have after everything needs to come out. And so that’s a really good shortcut. If you’re, if you’re, if the word budget still makes you feel ick, this is like your shortcut.

[00:25:23] Chelsea Williams: To a budget. 

[00:25:24] Steve Fretzin: Okay. No, I like that a lot. I like that a lot. So let’s move on to, uh, our game changing podcast, which is mind Valley, the mind Valley podcast. What is that? I 

[00:25:36] Chelsea Williams: love mind Valley. So mind Valley is revamping education as a whole, and they have different courses, many courses, end up platforms, um, around all things, business, finance, spirituality.

[00:25:54] Chelsea Williams: Um, self growth marketing, I mean, they have so many things in there that and the differentiator for mind valley is that they are bringing. Science and what we’re starting to learn about the human mind and the energy, and they’re bringing it into this more tangible topic. For people to kind of dig into it a little bit and start learning about it.

[00:26:18] Steve Fretzin: Okay. Yeah. Check out mind, body, mind, Valley, everybody. Not mind, body, mind, Valley. It’s my body. It’s your mind Valley. Uh, all right. So that’s fantastic. And so as we wrap up, I want to thank, of course, our wonderful sponsors, Laumatics and Get Stapped Up, both terrific partners to the show. And Chelsea, if people want to get in touch with you, uh, what’s the best way for them to reach you and, and, and say, Hey, help me with my numbers.

[00:26:42] Chelsea Williams: Yeah. So I’m going to put the money whisperer, my Instagram out there for this one. 

[00:26:49] Steve Fretzin: Okay. And we’ve got that in the show notes. I’m sure. Yes. Money whisperer. Okay. Awesome. And, um, and just what do you maybe email? I don’t know. Email website or is that, is that 

[00:26:59] Chelsea Williams: the website? If you’re a law firm owner, uh, check out our website, your core solution.

[00:27:05] Chelsea Williams: com. If this struck you as an individual, Uh, my individual targeted is the money whisperer on Instagram. 

[00:27:13] Steve Fretzin: Okay. Very good. Very good. All right. Awesome Well, I appreciate you coming back on the show as a three timer. I haven’t had too many three timers. So that’s that’s You’re you’re there you’re on top of the list.

[00:27:24] Steve Fretzin: Um, and so everybody thank you so much for for hanging out with chelsea and I today Um again, you know get your money under control understand the business and the personal side of things so much Um, maybe it’s an issue with, you know, tough conversation you have to have with your spouse. Like where’s all the money going?

[00:27:40] Steve Fretzin: Not going to say, you know, who’s risk, you know, who, who’s doing the right or the wrong in that case. But I think understanding, you know, how the money’s going out is, is pretty important, especially if you’re bringing in a lot and it’s not there for you. Um, and, uh, and, and Chelsea, thanks so much again. I appreciate you coming on the show again.

[00:27:57] Chelsea Williams: Yeah. It’s always a pleasure. Thank you. 

[00:27:59] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. All right, everybody. Take care. Be safe. Be well. We will talk again soon.

[00:28:07] Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website Fretzin. com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.