In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Clint Schumacher discuss:
- Resilience in athletics and in business.
- Connecting with those who have gone through similar challenges.
- Changing the shape of our adversity.
- Understanding and implementing your core values.
- Failure is an important part of the learning process – we need to learn how to let that failure allow us to become better, not to beat us down.
- Our brains are powerful and we often play out situations in our brain – use it for good rather than for harm.
- There is incredible power in any word or phrase that follows “I am.”
- Because of advances in technology, we do less hard things than we used to do. Doing hard things will allow us to continue to grow and learn.
“Take some time to be still and listen. Find the space to devote the time to you and to the life that you want to lead.” — Clint Schumacher
Connect with Clint Schumacher:
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
life, lawyer, core values, resilient, steve, people, began, important, failure, adversity, grow, talk, positive, coach, world, clint, kids, practice, circumstance, visualization
Narrator, Clint Schumacher, Steve Fretzin
Clint Schumacher [00:00]
We can be tricked into this thought process of why is this bad thing happening to me? You know, poor me and forget about you know what this is just part of life. And I might not see it on Twitter. I might not see it on Instagram. But bad things happen to everyone. So I’m not going to be surprised when a bad thing happens to me or get a mindset of Why does this have to happen?
You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin [00:49]
Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I hope you’re having a wonderful day, I know that I am. Listen, if you’re listening to this show, it means that you’re interested in growing your law practice, it’s not because you’re bored or have nothing better to do. There’s other podcasts you can listen to. So you’re listening to mine, which means that you care about marketing, business development organization being inspired. And hopefully you’re doing this in a place where you can either take notes, or maybe some mental notes, if you’re driving, obviously, don’t take notes if you’re driving. But as you know, be that lawyer is all about helping you the lawyer to grow your law practice. So today, we’ve got a really, really good guest. And if you’re interested in learning about how to be resilient, how to make it through tough times, I’ve got the guy for you, lawyer, author, master of resilience, Clint Schumacher. How’s it going, Clint?
Clint Schumacher [01:36]
Oh, Steve, I’m doing great. It’s good to be with you. Thank you. Yeah,
Steve Fretzin [01:39]
it’s good to have you and do me a solid and just give a little more background me we were just talking about the World Series of Poker and some of the crazy stuff that you’ve done and been successful with. But give us a little background. I think it’s you have a really interesting background.
Clint Schumacher [01:51]
Oh, yeah, happy to do that. So I live in Dallas, Texas, with my wife and three teenage boys been practicing law a little over 24 years, I’m in a very niche practice, I do eminent domain works. So when the government comes to take property, we represent property owners that are in that situation. But then Steve also spent a lot of time coaching football, I’m very lucky to get to do that. And coach at one of our local high schools, as a result of that started really studying how do you coach young athletes to be resilient? Can you teach it? How do you teach it? What is the mindset to do that? And I began to notice, not only did it impact, you know, how I was coaching those athletes, but I began to see that professionals of I was working with clients were working with, you know, we really needed to have similar conversations. And so it began to morph into professional discussions, man has certainly impacted my parenting discussions. And quite frankly, it began to impact how I thought about tough times in my own life.
Steve Fretzin [02:49]
Yeah, and so I don’t know, I’m old as well, you know, and I am the nicest possible way. But I know I was brought up with tough love. I was brought up in a world where, you know, you failed, and you were you got beat down whether it was a bully at school, whether it was, you know, getting taken out in a soccer game or football game. I mean, it was just a tougher time. And I feel like maybe now things have kind of loosened up. Or maybe it’s, you know, everybody needs to win, everybody gets a trophy. I don’t want to be negative about it. But is it tougher to be resilient or tougher to be tough? Now?
Clint Schumacher [03:23]
You know, Steve, it does a really good observation. I mean, we did grow up in a different time. And we grew up with parents that had been through difficult circumstances, I mean, wars, depressions, all that type of thing. And we now live in a time where we’re more separated from a time where the country was engaged in a long war, you know, engaged in difficult economic times, although we’ve had some of those. And then really coming out of the last year, you know, we’ve had this, we’ve all walked through the COVID situation together, and we began to really think about and talk more about how are you resilient, both in your personal life, and then in your communities and in your communities of faith? And how are we resilient as a country? And so I began to see a lot more discussion around that. But yeah, Steve, I think that kids growing up today are growing up in a different environment. In many ways, that’s very positive. But in some ways, we do less hard things than we used to no doubt about it.
Steve Fretzin [04:18]
How does the football and in the working with kids, and then how does if you could take what you’re helping them with to be resilient? And then how that translates into the legal space? How does that help lawyers to be resilient? Because I think we got a more fit over at some point, but I want at least get the background what you’re helping the kids with right now.
Clint Schumacher [04:35]
Yeah, well, that you get the crux of the matter. So, you know, one of the things that we deal with in athletics a lot is exactly what you talked about, which is failure. I mean, we’ve got to teach young athletes, one not to be afraid of failure, because it’s an important part of the learning process. But then to how do you deal with a failure in an effective way? How do you get better from it? How do you get wiser from it? How do you get stronger because of it, and allow that failure to let you to become better, as opposed to having the converse effect where you become worse or even give up altogether. And really, I think the same thing is true in law practice. I mean, in law practice, we experience a lot of failure. I mean, there is a very steep learning curve. It starts as a young lawyer, but it doesn’t change as you get to be more experienced in the practice. And I think it’s very important for young lawyers who, particularly when they’re starting their profession, they had a lot of success. They did well, in college, they did well in law school, they landed the job. They’ve dealt with the adversities, no doubt. But now for the first time, maybe the adversities are different. And not only are they experiencing professional adversities, but they’re now raising young families, which is a tough thing. They’re may be having, you know, other issues impacting their life. And so I think it’s important as a lawyer to learn how do I deal with failure, not let it derail me, but instead learn how to very productively learn and grow and figure out what I’m supposed to take from that experience, and then do it better the next time I encounter that circumstance?
Steve Fretzin [06:02]
Yeah. And I think it’s something that you can tell people, but they almost have to come up with it on their own. Meaning that I used to start businesses all the time, I was like a feather on the wind are picking up a shiny Penny, or whatever we want to call it. But, you know, it took me a while to sort of grow up and mature and say, you know, I could start this business in addition to what I’m doing. But, you know, the last one didn’t do well. And here’s why. And do I really want to take that my focus away. And so, you know, the failure that I had in the past and maybe not failure, like when I lost my house or anything, but like failure, and then it wasn’t as big of success, as I had hoped that I learned from it. But it wasn’t someone told me to learn from it. I just know, I just picked up that I learned from it. Is it something that can be that you tell people? Or is it something they have to sort of figure out on their own?
Clint Schumacher [06:46]
Well, I think there’s so a boat, Steve, I mean, I’m like you a lot of times you just Intuit how to get through the circumstance that you had. But one of the things that I began to notice, as I was doing your research around, is there was a common set of decisions that really resilient people made. And I think if we began to get our mind around some of those things, and be intentional in doing them, we can get through an adversity more quickly, and get to an it through and adversity in a more productive and positive way. So things like connecting with others, I mean, we probably know that we should do that. But let’s be reminded of the importance of that, and how to do that in an effective way. You know, taking a long term approach, we can in the middle of an adversity, we can get so myopic, on the things that are wrong in our life, that we lose track of all the things that we have, that we ought to really be grateful for. And when we began to change the way we see things, it really can change the way we see the adverse circumstance in our life. And so you can be intentional about some of these decisions, and maybe get through that adversity more quickly. And have it be a more positive influence than if you’re, you know, not as intentional about your thought process and your decision. But
Steve Fretzin [07:55]
I might be backing up a moment. But what are two or three things that you wrote about in your book, or that you talk to the kids about or other lawyers about as it relates to resiliency? What are the top three things that you say, look, in order to be resilient? You have to and then you fill in the blank there?
Clint Schumacher [08:11]
Yeah, so number one, I think you’ve got to accept that adversity. And failure is a part of life. You know, part of the danger in our social media driven world is we see the highlights of everybody’s lives around us on Facebook, very few people put the lowlights of what’s happening on their Facebook page, right. Yeah, absolutely. And so we can be tricked into this thought process of why is this bad thing happening to me, you know, poor me, and forget about you know what, this is just part of life. And I may not see it on Twitter, I may not see it on Instagram, but bad things happen to everyone. So I’m not going to be surprised when a bad thing happens to me or get a mindset of Why does this have to happen? You know, the second thing we’ve kind of touched on, which is the importance of really connecting with others who have been through whatever it is we are going through, it gives us hope that there’s a way through that path. And it also gives us a roadmap to more effectively get us through a problem. And then see, you know, one of the things that surprised I think this is really powerful, is I began to see and was really touched by those stories where somebody took an adverse circumstance in their life, and turned it into a compelling, motivating force for good in their life. And I tell the story about a couple named Jacobs that had lost a baby very near to turn. And they grieved about the loss of that child, as you would understandably expect. But at some point, in the course of walking through that they began to read about the circumstances of children in third world countries, and the circumstances that they had, and they really took note of a specific orphanage in a country that had been torn apart by genocide and by a tremendous amount of violence and there was a orphanage with several 100 Kids As they just lived in really difficult circumstances, and they decided to dedicate their lives to improving the lives of those kids in that orphanage, and they began, they called her ministry, kiss Chase, and the name of the Sunday loss was named Chase. And so they took their grief and re channeled it into this incredible force for good. And later, during that process, the mother Chelsea said something that has always stuck with me. She said in the process of walking through the grief over the loss of Chase and our decision to dedicate our lives to the betterment of these kids in the orphanage, my grief changed shape. And so when we can begin to take adversity in our life, and change the shape of it from something that’s negative, something that we dread, into something that propels us something that compels us to make the world around us better. Wow, that’s really powerful. And that was something that jumped out at me as I was studying this and writing.
Steve Fretzin [10:59]
Yeah, that’s those are three really strong messages. Number one, accepting it, learning from it, you know, some people call it failing forward. I think that’s really an important thing. Because, you know, in business development and marketing, there’s always failure, you’re always going to try something and then it fails, can you learn from it and either go a different direction, or improve it and go the same direction better than you were before. The second point you made about connecting with others that have maybe been Where you’ve been so to not have a mentor to not have someone in your corner that can walk you through? Yeah, I had that same thing happen to me. And here’s what I did. And you can learn from that. And then obviously, to take adverse situations, and make them into a positive and make them into something that, as you said, compels you forward. I think that’s everybody can pull something from their life, whether it was their life or someone they know, and working in a positive way. And so I think those are all great ideas for, you know, dealing with adversity. Is there something to be said about visualization? I know that’s something that you try to incorporate. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Clint Schumacher [12:02]
Absolutely. I think you’ve touched on something that’s very important, which is the importance of what we think in our mind. I mean, we all say hundreds of words to ourselves every minute or few minutes. And when we become intentional with the scripts that we’re playing in our mind, it begins to impact our actions. And so you know, you think about the things that you say to yourself. And sometimes we say things to ourselves that if someone else said them to us, we hit them in the mouth, right, that we can be very unkind to ourselves. Yeah. And so I think there’s great power in being intentional about what you’re saying to you about who you are, what you want to be about, and your capabilities. And then when it comes to visualization, I think there’s incredible power in playing out in our mind, situations that we expect to happen during the day, maybe they’re hard, maybe we’ve got to have a hard conversation. And we play that out in our mind three or four times before we haven’t, you know, before I deliver an oral argument, you know, this is not uncommon to me, all lawyers can relate to it, we probably practice several times, sometimes in person, sometimes, as we were just running through our mind will take that same power and apply it to your situation, what do I want my morning to look like? Do I want it to be productive? What things am I going to do? And when we get into the habit of visualizing even routine parts of our day, I think we can see a real upside effect from that. And it’s a powerful way to lift ourselves out of difficult situations we may be in,
Steve Fretzin [13:27]
I think visualization and I would add something to that positive self talk. And I know that that’s a part of it, right? But when I’m playing and I play a lot of sports and always positive self talking to myself, when we’re down like I’m playing nail racquet sport, and we’re down 40 Love or whatever, you know, we’re coming back, this is going to happen was now start positive talking to my partner and getting him on it, you know, because I know he’s feeling down because he made the last mistake. So that energy can move us and that energy is also I think it can be contagious. And so there are things that you’re doing around positive self talk, as well as visualization with the kids on the field.
Clint Schumacher [14:02]
Yeah, absolutely. That’s a big part of what we do at our teaching. You know, I coach offensive lineman, Steve at the high school level and most offensive lineman, if you think about it, generally not the best athletes growing up, that’s not who gets put on the offensive line. And so they’ve spent an entire lifetime being the last ones pick for a team, or being told they’re too slow or whatever else. And so one of the things that I have to do is change the way they see themselves and begin to have them have that internal self talk about being prepared, being capable, being able, and they’ve got to put in the work to earn that too. But the way they begin to talk to themselves is very important. You know, and Steve operated that into my own life at the suggestion of a mentor as you as you’ve already spoken about, you know, I have a PowerPoint slide that I look at every morning that’s got, you know, 10 or 11 or 12 things that I have decided I want to be about and that I want to focus on that particular day and it might change from month The month, but there’s some overall overarching things that I want to remind myself about every morning. And, you know, quite candidly, I’ll tell you, it took me a while to get into the habit of doing that, because it sounded weird. You know, it sounds a little countercultural, but its power in my life has been very profound.
Steve Fretzin [15:19]
And there’s some I heard when I was coming up, you know, as a young 20, something salesperson, I don’t remember who where I got it from, and whoever I got it from, probably stole it from someone else. But it goes something like this, you know, you are what you think about most of the time. And so the people that are negative, that are always negative self talk, and they’re getting beaten down by life and been beaten down by their spouse, whatever the case is, and they’re thinking about it all the time, negative, negative, negative, well, that’s what you become, right? And people that can get out and give that positive self talk and get themselves in a positive place around positive people, you know, then you become that you become a much better, stronger type of person. Let me ask you about something else I saw on your writing that you talk a lot about core values, and how does core values directly reflect on someone’s ability to be resilient?
Clint Schumacher [16:05]
Yeah, that’s a really good question, Steve. I mean, I think as you decide what’s important to you, that’s what I mean by the term core value. And the English word core actually comes from the Latin word, also core, but CLR. And the concept is something that bubbles up from your heart. And so once you get in touch with those things that bubble up with your heart, and you become intentional one about figuring out what that is, and to structuring your life around it. Okay, now you start to get a lot of clarity about this is the way I want to live. And then the other English word that comes from that same Latin word core is the word courage. And so as we connect to our core values, as we connect to the values that bubble up from our heart, we begin to find added courage to do the hard things to live in alignment with our core value. You know, one of my core values is I am a great father, I say it that way. Because I think there’s incredible power, in whatever word follows. I am okay. It’s aspirational at times. I’m not always a great father, but that’s what I want to be. So I tell myself as a core value, I am a great father, we’ll see, you know, there’s times where it’s hard to be a great father, okay. There’s times where it’s tiring. There’s times where it’s exhausting. There’s times where I’ve got to have a conversation with one of my sons that I don’t necessarily want to have to have. But once I decide that’s a core value in my life, I begin to find the courage to commit to live out what I’ve got to do to live out that core value and do the hard things to bring that into fruition.
Steve Fretzin [17:40]
Yeah, so I think what you’re saying is, if your core values aren’t positive, aren’t strong, aren’t aligned with leading a positive life that it’s definitely affect your ability to be resilient and overcome.
Clint Schumacher [17:52]
Man, there’s no doubt about it. And it’s so easy to float through life. And I think it’s particularly that’s a particular risk for lawyers. My first couple of years in law practice, you get so preoccupied and so busy with the practice of law that you can lose touch with everything else that’s important to you, and you began to lose focus on what is it really important. And if you’re not intentional about figuring out, okay, this is what I want to do, this is what I want to be about, then you can let all these other things that may be very important to you drift away, because you’re so preoccupied with your success as a lawyer. And I think there’s no doubt that having a successful career is important. It is fulfilling, but I suspect that Steve probably for most people listening to your show, if they sit down and think about it, that’s not all that they want to be about. Being a lawyer is not all that defines them. There’s other things, I suspect that bubble up from their heart that they want to be about. And until you become intentional about doing all those things, what it takes to live out the kind of life that you’re wanting to live, you know, we have this tendency to drift, because there’s so many demands on our time as it is,
Steve Fretzin [18:59]
there’s an occasion where I help lawyers write marketing, like business development plans, but on occasion, I also help them write an actual business plan for their law firm. It could be an individual lawyer, or that could be a small firm. I’m not doing anything with big firms on that. But one of the first things I do is I say, you know, what are the core values? Because it represents their mindset about their firm about themselves, and what do they want their firm to be? So how do you pull out someone’s core values to get them to share what those core values are? And I don’t know if there’s direction involved in that, or if it’s just asking them the question.
Clint Schumacher [19:34]
You know, I think there is some direction to that, Steve, I think it’s very different for most people with this one exception, maybe two exceptions, I think to figure out your core values one, if you’ve never done, you ought to expect it’s going to take a little bit of time, and it’s going to take some silence. And so here again, we get so busy. And the world that we live in has so many distractions and there’s so many teams on the computer and the Facebook post pop up and everything else, that I encourage people who haven’t gone through this exercise, to take some time to be still and just listen and hear again, Steve, I believe these things bubble up from our heart, but we’ve got to be quiet enough to hear and finding that space to devote the time to you and to the life that you want to lead. And then the influence that has on the people that you mentor and work with in your family is very important. And you need to take the time to do that.
Steve Fretzin [20:31]
And I think core values might also be aligned with something that’s been talked about a lot lately, and recently in a LinkedIn post that I did about my why it’s finding your why. So you will lawyer to make money and is at your core value about making money and just making as much as you can, for some that might be it. And then maybe there’s a reason behind that money and what that money represents. For others, it might be about doing justice, you know, doing good in the world. And others it might be about helping their clients. You know, my wife just put it out there was a client of mine named Justin sent me an email. And he was struggling when I met him to really make ends meet. And he said, Hey, I just want to get to 10 grand a month, if I could just get the 10 grand a month, 120 a year, man, I would be living a great lifestyle, I don’t have you know, high knees, you know, big needs or anything. And he just emailed me that in the last month, he did 65 grand in a month for a solo practitioner, who, you know, that would have been half his year. And I said, and he just was thanking me, and you know, a lot of it to you. And I would reject that and say, Yay, I’m the coach, you’re the player, you were the one that played, you’re the one who took the direction and you ran with it. However, when I sit back, and I think about that, and I don’t get like, you know, emotional or clumped about it, but I go, Dude, that’s it. That’s what it’s all about for me. And if I’m helping these lawyers to grow wealth, and to grow independence and control over their careers and live a happier life, that’s my why that’s my core value. It’s helping them the fact that I make a good living, or the fact that, you know, I can take care of my family. That’s just a side perk. Right? So that’s just, you know, my two cents on the core values and how it also might relate to the why. And it sounds like you’ve got a pretty strong why on your end.
Clint Schumacher [22:10]
Yeah, absolutely. Steven, I love your story. And then isn’t that what it’s all about? Me. And when we start to see, other people have success, wow, that’s incredibly fulfilling. When we’re able to serve our clients in a great way, man, that’s incredibly fulfilling. And as you said, I mean, you know, finding your why finding your core values, that really simplifies so many other things in life. And as you begin to live into that, again, to experience fulfillment, this mopping innovations, experience fulfillment, you begin to experience joy. That’s what we’re on this earth, hopefully to do.
Steve Fretzin [22:43]
Yeah, and some people know, I knew, I don’t think share this with you. But I, you know, I’ve had very severe near death experience when I was in my 20s. And, you know, my hope is that it doesn’t take people that type of an experience to, you know, wake up and realize you get one shot at this thing. And you can blow 510 20 years of your life by not following what Clint is talking about, meaning, you know, what are your core values, defining them in thinking about a positive direction to go, or how to learn from failure mean, these are all life lessons, that if you just, you keep doing the same wrong things over and over living life, like it taking it for granted? These are all big missteps, that people you know, need to figure out maybe without a near death experience. But, you know, it’s hard to kind of tell people that it’s almost something that, you know, they have to kind of figure out,
Clint Schumacher [23:29]
you’re right, Steven, in fact, tell the story. In the book, there was a gentleman named Darren, who’s become a good friend there and almost died of a heart attack at a very young age. And as you just spoke about, it really changed his perspective on how he lived life. We were having coffee, he told me what his core values were, he looked across the table and said, What are yours? And I said, Man, I don’t know. I mean, I had no answer for him. And that’s really what started part of that journey and figuring out when what do I want my life to be about and then trying to live into that. Now,
Steve Fretzin [23:57]
one of the chapters that you wrote about in your book second, when is called grated cheese and video games. What are those two things have to do with each other? Overcoming adversity? What’s the deal?
Clint Schumacher [24:08]
Yeah, it’s got to relate to something we already talked about. I mean, we I’m at that age, Steve, you probably are to where we were right at the edge of the Video Game Revolution. And I’ll call it had some great ones when I was a kid played some more when I was a young lawyer even but kids today, you know, spend a lot of time playing video games certainly happens with the three teenagers at my house. And you know, one of the things about video games is when it’s not going well when you get surprised, you can just hit the reset button. Right. And so a lot of our younger folks that have come up in that they’ve got this experience where hey, something’s not going well. I just hit reset and Steve as you know, there’s no reset button in life not that’s that easy, where you avoid the consequences. With the grated cheese it really touches on something we already talked about. I was teaching one of my boys a few years ago how to use that Kel Bell cheese grater you know, cow bell shaped device where Yeah, chickens rabbit along the side. You know, my mom taught me how to use that. And it dawned on me, I had never taught him how to great cheese. And you know, use that cow bell shaped devices, you great cheese at least Did you always, you know, cut your knuckles, right? Because the cheese gets stuck. Yeah, sure. And as I was teaching him how to use that and realized we’d never even have one in our house anymore, because you can buy shredded cheese at the store for almost the same price. And to me, it was kind of symbolic of a lot of life. You know, we’ve taken industrialization, globalization, technology, and we’ve got all these advances. And because of them, we do less hard things than we used to do. I do less hard things to my parents did my boys do less hard things than I did. And in many ways, it’s great, because we can reallocate our time, away from mundane, difficult tasks into higher value tasks that hopefully bring us more joy in life. But at the same time, those mundane, hard difficult things are teaching tools, like we’ve already touched on Steve. And, you know, as I say, our kids are doing less of that. And it just enhances the importance in not only our own life, but the lives of those who are mentoring and parenting and coaching, trying to teach these skills of resilience that they need to go through life in a really effective and meaningful way.
Steve Fretzin [26:19]
And, you know, with kids in particular, you know, my wife and I sometimes want to bulldoze or helicopter, or all the different terms of how we make our kids lives easy. So they can just walk through and, you know, occasionally we stop each other. And we were, you know, good team, and we go you know what, this is something he wants to do. And we think it’s a bad idea. But you know what, let’s let him go ahead and figure it out. And he goes ahead and figures out, you know, bangs his head in the wall, and comes back and says, My head hurts. And we go, okay, well, that’s what it feels like. So, you know, but I think we need to do more of that we need to let our kids fail at not just in a video game, but in real life, or let our lawyers you know, fail and trying things. And again, you know, if you can take a positive way from it, then it’s going to be something that you’re going to get more value out than if you’re told what to do or if you if you just get it swept away or out of your way. That being said, there’s something to be said about shortcuts and following process and taking, you know, taking shortcuts if it makes sense. So, well, listen, this has been inspirational. Clint, this has been helpful. I think anyone listening is should be feeling really good about they’ve got to take some next steps on developing resiliency, core values failing forward, etc. If people want to get in touch with you, or get your book on Amazon or anything like that. What’s the best way for them to check that out?
Clint Schumacher [27:34]
Yes, thank you for asking me that. Yeah, the book is available in all forms, ebook, paperback, hardback, also an audio version on Audible or on Amazon, of course. Or if you want to find out more information about the book or more information about me, I’d love to connect with you on our website, which is www dot find. Second wind.com. And I put my email on there, because really, I’d love to hear from people that have read the book, and to hear what they think about it. And if it has impacted how they live their life, man, it’d be a great encouragement to me.
Steve Fretzin [28:04]
Yeah, we’ll throw some information in the show notes as well. So listen, Clint, this has been terrific. You’ve been terrific and really appreciate you being on the show. And they’ve taken some time for me in the audience to share your life stories and expertise. It’s just very grateful for having you
Clint Schumacher [28:19]
honored that she left me on the show. Let me say to you, I love your content is really helpful to me and my law practice and building my law practice and I’m a big fan of what you do and what you’re putting out in the world. So thank you.
Steve Fretzin [28:30]
Wow, listen, man. My pleasure. You know again, if you’re listening to this show, and you’ve listened to past episodes, don’t be shy about liking it, to sharing it to given me some props and great guests that I have and you know, get more lawyers to work towards that goal of being that lawyer someone who’s confident, organized a skilled Rainmaker, grow that law practice, there’s no time better than now. So get to it and listen, everybody take care of the safety. Well, we’ll see you again soon.
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website fretzin.com. For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes