Dan Warburton: A Deep Dive into Delegation

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Dan Warburton discuss:

  • Lessons learned the hard way in leadership and delegation.
  • Top things lawyers should delegate and are not.
  • How to ensure those you delegate to are not going to leave your firm.
  • The process and steps for delegation.

Key Takeaways:

  • Only when somebody feels like their future is being impacted by their actions will they take their actions seriously.
  • While it will take time to delegate your responsibilities effectively and appropriately, it will save time and make a difference more quickly than you realize.
  • It is not required to do all the client work to maintain the client relationship.
  • Write down your procedures. If you don’t, everything gets done slightly differently, then there is no way to track and improve it.

“Delegating can feel painful and like wading through mud at the beginning. And, in the short run, it is much easier to carry on doing it all yourself, but then you build a firm that keeps you in urgency, not working on what’s important.” —  Dan Warburton

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Episode References: 

Connect with Dan Warburton: 

Website: https://www.danwarburton.com/

Book: Dream It Choose It Live It

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DanWarburton

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/authordanwarburton/

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Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

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Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

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Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.


[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hello, everyone. Have you ever wondered how much more business you could be generating each month? Well, you can take the Be That Lawyer challenge to find out. If I’m unable to help you find the money that’s been evading you, I’ll pay your hourly rate for the time invested together. Just go to Fretzin.

[00:00:15] Steve Fretzin: com to sign up. I’m challenging you. Now enjoy the show.

[00:00:23] Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host.

[00:00:45] Steve Fretzin: Well, hey everybody. Welcome to Be That Lawyer. I’m Steve Fretzin. Hello. Hello. Good to have you with me today. We are going to take a deep dive into helping you be that lawyer. Someone who’s confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. And it’s so crazy how busy lawyers get with. The work, the billable hour and the work you’ve got business development.

[00:01:05] Steve Fretzin: I hope you’re doing that on top of that. You might be managing a team. You have all these clients to manage. You’ve got judges and other lawyers that you’re managing and it becomes highly, highly overwhelming. So we’re going to take a deep dive today into delegation. I’ve got a top expert with me, Dan, how you doing?

[00:01:22] Dan Warburton: Really great. And it’s good to be here.

[00:01:24] Steve Fretzin: Yep. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Yeah, it’s going to be a lot of fun today. You’re, uh, you’re hanging out in the South of Spain. Yeah

[00:01:31] Dan Warburton: south of spain live in the dream as i

[00:01:33] Steve Fretzin: say yeah that that is kind of the dream and a lot of i have a client right now who’s living in paris and with his family and doing all of his work and he’s yeah i just i’m just like scratching my head why am i in chicago for the winter and why am i you know living in the boring north shore of chicago and deerfield illinois where it’s just you know just super boring but in it you know i don’t know but that that’s the you know these are the roads in the past that we take and it’s it’s all good and so.

[00:01:59] Steve Fretzin: Oh, I obviously love to start the show as I usually do with the quote of the show. And this is a very famous one from Henry Ford. Whether you think you can or you think you can’t, you’re right. And I want to say that’s been, that’s been mentioned on the show before, but it’s one that I think is so critical.

[00:02:16] Steve Fretzin: So, so talk to us. First of all, welcome to the show. And second, like, thank you for, for being here. What’s the, what’s, what, why is that your quote

[00:02:22] Dan Warburton: of the show? It’s, it’s shaped my life. You know, I, I’ve always lived in a world where people weren’t entrepreneurial around me. They settled for second best whenever I go back to the village that I grew up, a lot of the people are still there just drinking at the same bar, doing the same thing and nothing in their lives changed.

[00:02:41] Dan Warburton: And in the face of that environment, I dared to think maybe it is possible. Maybe I can do it. What if, why not? What if I just go knock on a thousand doors? Like what would happen as I’m trying to set up my handyman business if I knocked on a thousand doors? What would happen? How many opportunities? And, and then I went and did it.

[00:02:58] Dan Warburton: In fact, I knocked on many more than that. And I’ll tell you my story and, and, and it’s, and as a result of that, it’s taken me around the world in building, growing businesses. I’ve traveled around the world, spoken to audiences of over 4, 000 now got an Amazon bestseller and all these other things. So, you know, if I’d have stayed there thinking I can’t, it’s not possible.

[00:03:17] Dan Warburton: Then that would have led me to not take those actions and I would have probably stayed with them drinking at the same bar It took my late 40s, you know, well

[00:03:26] Steve Fretzin: again a good lead in to your to your background. I’m here with Dan Warburton He’s a expert in coaching and delegation and give us a little bit of your past and in leading into your be that lawyer tipping point Well,

[00:03:38] Dan Warburton: I saw my father working long, long hours and he would often after dinner time say, Oh, bloody hell.

[00:03:44] Dan Warburton: I need to go back down to my desk and do more work. And it was, it was actually frightening to see him have to do that. And I was thinking, Oh God, I do not want to be like my dad. And then often on Saturdays and Sundays, he’d say, I’m just going to do a couple more hours. Need work most of Saturdays and half a Sunday.

[00:04:01] Dan Warburton: I knew that I had to become an entrepreneur. I knew that by being an entrepreneur, I could have unlimited earning potential. I could go on a holiday whenever I want. I could do what I want, when I want, how I want. It was the way to go. But I knew I didn’t want to do it like my father had because he was running his own business, but was always having to work these hours.

[00:04:19] Dan Warburton: So that began this fascination about how do you succeed in life? How do you earn lots of money, have lots of free time? And then as I’ve got a bit older, I realized and also make a real impact in other people’s lives. And I realized that that was the thing that was really inspiring me more than anything.

[00:04:36] Dan Warburton: So I set off to start my first business and yeah, I think that was my first business. It was like a personal styling service where I networked and I met up with all the designers shops across Brighton town and said, if I bring you customers that I’m helping out in their image, And in what they wear, will you give them a percentage and give me some kind of payment?

[00:04:57] Dan Warburton: And the whole thing fell apart. But anyway, a few more business later, I then thought, right, let’s just go and earn real money. So I’m going to go and be a handyman, call myself Super Dan, made a little flyer and started knocking on doors. And this was about 15 years ago, and by that summer, my phone was ringing so much I physically couldn’t knock on another door, and I’d actually knocked on 4, 000 doors, and I know that because I was keeping count of the number of flowers that I was printing, and it was brilliant, I was earning my own money, didn’t need my dad to lend me any more money, or, you know, do a horrible job, I was really free, but again, I was still attending these programs that taught Management and leadership.

[00:05:38] Dan Warburton: And I knew that I could only impact one person at a time, as long as I’m the only one on the team doing this work. So I carried on going, carried on locking, carried on, you know, growing that business. We then became a team of eight called team super. And that was great, but then a lot of the workmen couldn’t do the work they promised me, and I didn’t know how to manage them, and I was having to pay other workmen from other companies to come and repair the mistakes that they made, and then clients chose not to pay because work was so delayed, so I had to start giving people their money back, get loads more credit cards out, and ended up losing the whole business, and I was then still living in this one bedroom, bed sit apartment, and On my own, uh, was then single again, no future to look forward to.

[00:06:21] Dan Warburton: Plus I had about 130, 000 debt that was in great British pounds. So there I was. And then one of that, that was when I got one of my biggest lessons into leadership and delegation. I learned that you can ask people to do all the things that you like, but if you don’t transfer the responsibility from your shoulders onto theirs, they don’t ever do things properly.

[00:06:46] Dan Warburton: Only when somebody feels that their future is being impacted by the actions that they’re taking in your business, will they take the actions that they take seriously or take looking after your clients seriously. So with that in mind, I then went out and set another business up, which was 24 hour emergency plumbing and drainage.

[00:07:04] Dan Warburton: And with that, I found somebody who had a small team, willing to take on more work. I used my skills in placing adverts, answering the phone and knocking on more doors. And just got the phone ring in and it was brilliant because I could travel everywhere all over England. I went to festivals, drinking loads of beer.

[00:07:20] Dan Warburton: I then went snowboarding in, you know, in the Alps. I spent time in the south of France, south of Spain. And you know, I’d be on these chairlifts with a snowboard around my ankle and I, my phone would ring a hello, 247 drainage. How can I help you? Yes, we can do that. We can be there one hour. That’s 150 pounds.

[00:07:37] Dan Warburton: I take the details onto my colleague. And it was brilliant. I just kept doing that. And then at the end of the month I invoiced for a third of all the sales I brought in. And then I started to mentor and coach him on how to further grow his team. And then work out all his operations. And then we brought in technology so everyone knew where they stood.

[00:07:54] Dan Warburton: We also had this live map so we knew where all the vans were with all the workmen. So we knew who to instruct to go out to which job as it came up. And it was brilliant. And then people start to ask me, how are you doing this? Can you help me? And my dad was one of those people who then became one of my first clients.

[00:08:08] Dan Warburton: I then helped him grow his business internationally. He was offering ticket reservation systems in the ferry industry, then became a keynote speaker into ferry. So I then coached him on how to speak and present, but then word of mouth grew and grew. And then I started to take payments from people. And now I’ve worked with over a thousand ambitious entrepreneurs, business owners.

[00:08:28] Dan Warburton: But then four years ago. I was on this advanced marketing program and my mentor said, you need to be niche. You can’t just be coaching every business of every business everywhere, write a list of all the people you’ve worked with over the last two years and see which one’s got the best results. And you enjoyed working with the most.

[00:08:45] Dan Warburton: So I wrote them all out and sure enough, it was really clear. The pattern was that those that succeeded the most and I enjoyed working with the most were law firm leaders. And then that’s, but you, yeah, but

[00:08:55] Steve Fretzin: I’m going to stop you right there. So you, I mean, Not only the idea that you’re, that you, you saw how many people in your, that, you know, like I did the same thing getting into log, it became 85 percent of my business.

[00:09:07] Steve Fretzin: It was clear. That there was a match between me and the law in the legal industry. And I think you’ve found that too, but I think because business development is not taught in law school and not taught at the law firm level, there was such a dramatic need, same thing with executive functioning delegation and in that type of sort.

[00:09:23] Steve Fretzin: So just like there’s certain industries that have such a desperate need for certain things that it just makes it makes for a perfect fit. Sounds like.

[00:09:32] Dan Warburton: You’ve hit it on the nail exactly that at no stage is a law firm partner taught how to effectively delegate away their workload and to do so profitably.

[00:09:43] Dan Warburton: And if you look at how a partner becomes promoted, they become promoted on their book of clients and the number of hours they’re billing. So then they go from that to also becoming a partner and managing to expect the rest of the team. At no stage did they ever get the training. To know how to build a highly profitable team so that they can impact the lives of so many more people and serve so many people, more people at once than trying to do most of it themselves.

[00:10:12] Dan Warburton: Yeah,

[00:10:12] Steve Fretzin: so it’s, it’s really become one of the greatest superpowers or skills that lawyers can have is to become great at, at, at profitable delegation. So what were the main. Things that you were seeing that they weren’t delegating or that they were, that they were wearing too many hats. I mean, what was like the top three, like things that you just see on a regular basis with, with law firm managers and, and high functioning lawyers that struggle that

[00:10:40] Dan Warburton: hire you?

[00:10:41] Dan Warburton: Yeah, sure. The easiest is to give you an example. There was a guy called Carlos. He came to me a year and a half ago. He was one of two law firm partners who between them led a team of eight. He was exhausted, burnt out working over a hundred hours a week. And when we started working together, I discovered that he was receiving about 250 text messages a day from his team wanting to know, where’s that file?

[00:11:02] Dan Warburton: How do I do this? Where’s this? How do I do that? And, you know, it was just exhausting him and he’d lost all joy and fun as a partner. And so the first thing to do was For him to get structured in how he was leading his team. So he was leaving himself contactable at all hours and to answer all questions and all queries.

[00:11:23] Dan Warburton: And that’s the point he didn’t set any boundaries. So the first thing was to set up regular one on one calls between him and his key team members. And then requesting of them, do not contact me unless you have to outside of these one on one meetings. Now obviously, he still got contacted because he was needed to keep workflow moving.

[00:11:42] Dan Warburton: But he went from receiving 250 text messages a day to 10 within about a week.

[00:11:49] Steve Fretzin: You know? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, it sounds like setting boundaries, setting policies, setting expectations being a critical thing, especially with clients.


[00:11:58] Dan Warburton: with clients as well, but the main thing was, was that what he was doing is whenever anybody in his team wanted something or wanted to answer something, he would just answer them.

[00:12:06] Dan Warburton: So he just became completely dependent by everybody for the law firm to operate. But once we had that structure in place, he started to have our two, three, four of complete silence where he could focus on what was important to him. With that time, we then looked at recruiting ideal people because we saw that what was still taking up a lot of his time was doing fee earning work.

[00:12:28] Dan Warburton: So then we went and found the exact specific person we needed that could take over his most senior work. And then what we did was, well, he set up this one on one call with him as well. And then in that one on one sessions, he would empower and train this new employee to directly take over his own fee earning work.

[00:12:49] Dan Warburton: And then to make sure that it was, you know, of a high standard before it was delivered, but it was very quick because he was already, you know, an advanced, you know, commercial lawyer. And what happened was after three months, he went from working over a hundred hours to less than 50 a week. And by the sixth month of us working together, him and his only other partner had made over an extra 707, 000 extra profit.

[00:13:14] Dan Warburton: Hmm. Clear profit. So he was then working so much less, but earning so much more. And after a year of us working together, his law firm went from being worth 3. 5 million to 8. 5 million. Yeah. So.

[00:13:29] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. It’s, it’s, but I think, but the mindset is such a big part of it. Letting go and recruiting and then training people.

[00:13:39] Steve Fretzin: There’s a lot that goes into that. So it’s not a snap your fingers type of thing, right? There’s a lot that goes into that, into those exercises. What, what would you say is the, I think what I’m hearing and I’ve heard this from so many managing partners that are successful in Rainmakers is. Finding that lieutenant, finding that second person that can, that can work directly under you, that you can allow them to, you know, run the team or allow them to run the work or allow them to do things and.

[00:14:07] Steve Fretzin: And then take a lot of that off your plate as

[00:14:09] Dan Warburton: the leader. Yeah, absolutely. But there’s a major hurdle that many partners come up to, especially those that have been partners for, you know, 15, 20 or more years, is that their clients have known them for years. So whenever their clients want anything, they always expect to pick up the phone and for them to answer it for them to handle it and be the face of that work.

[00:14:31] Dan Warburton: Right. So, a lot of them don’t even entertain having a conversation with me because they can’t see it working. How can they possibly delegate away the work that they are seen as the center of the world for? Well, there’s a simple answer to it. This is exactly what I did with Carlos. What we did was once he employed this guy called Jonathan, we then had Jonathan attend all those client calls.

[00:14:54] Dan Warburton: If a call came in, he would say, okay. Let me call you back with my colleague who I’ve now got assisting me to make sure that we can deliver an even better standard of work. And of course they would then have a three way call and then Jonathan would be asked to chip in with his point of view of what they’re going to do and how they’re going to do it.

[00:15:13] Dan Warburton: And then we made it a rule that from then on he was never to attend a call with a client without Jonathan also being on it. And then after three months of doing that, what happened was Jonathan was so up to speed and he’d become the face of this work as much as Carlos. And then, they got Jonathan to hand his contact details over to the client and said if you need anything contact him.

[00:15:35] Dan Warburton: Now what happened was, Carlos phone still rang first from those clients. But what did Carlos do? He didn’t answer it. It then rang two times. He didn’t answer it. It rang three times. He didn’t answer it. And then, ha! Jonathan’s phone started ringing instead. And of course, Jonathan answers the phones really fast, on point, delivers and handles their problems so well that in the end they get, Oh wow, this guy Jonathan is just as good as Carlos, but he’s always available and always free.

[00:16:01] Dan Warburton: And so in their mind, what has shifted is Carlos being the face of the work to then Jonathan. And that is what’s enabled him to delegate away so much of his workload. Meaning he now works a lot less and because he’s now not reliant on the business to run profitably, it’s dramatically increased the value of his firm so much so that now if he wanted he could sell it.

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[00:18:09] Steve Fretzin: All right, so I love everything you just said. And I’m gonna throw a however, there are attorneys who would be uncomfortable with that because their relationship with their client is critical. Meaning maybe they’re not a managing partner, they’re Um, a senior partner at a firm where that relationship in the work and that their name is attached to it, that that’s how they get credit, right?

[00:18:33] Steve Fretzin: So maybe they’re not managing the firm, but they’re running at that level. If they start handing all that work off to someone else, that person may then develop the relationship and then leave and take that work with them and Carlos gets left behind or someone gets left behind. I’m not suggesting that would happen every time, but do you have a feeling about how someone in that has the relationships can hand off the work?

[00:18:53] Steve Fretzin: And yet still retain and maintain the relationship with the key with the key accounts.

[00:18:58] Dan Warburton: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we’re talking about them being in the same firm. And I know that if Ben Jonathan builds up all this client base, that then he could go and take them somewhere else.

[00:19:09] Steve Fretzin: Well, no, but I’m saying if he’s dealing with Carlos’s clients and becoming the expert and becoming the person that’s working on the day to day.

[00:19:17] Steve Fretzin: If Jonathan ever dissented, hopefully Jonathan’s not listening to this and getting some reason, right? But like, Jonathan decides to leave, and then he starts calling all of Carlos clients saying, Hey, you know, he turned all of this work to you, and now I’m doing it, you want to work with me, I’m over here, it’s a hundred less an hour, whatever.

[00:19:33] Steve Fretzin: That’s, I’m just saying, like, that’s a concern that any attorneys have that, that make it rain, and would, that would be their, their argument to, I can’t hand this over because.

[00:19:43] Dan Warburton: Yeah, absolutely. And really, it’s a simple mat. Absolutely. If you had 10 middleweight fee earners earning in that one hour, they will be able to produce so much greater profit than if you worked on your own that one hour in your firm.

[00:19:59] Dan Warburton: It’s that simple. You’d want them to take over all your work. And then what you do to make sure they stay in your firm and that you get the profit and they don’t leave without client base. Is you treat them with the highest respect, you give them regular pay rises, you give them bonuses, time off, and you really make them feel incredibly valued in your firm.

[00:20:21] Dan Warburton: And once you do that, you then end up making the most of all the profits that come into your firm without you having to physically do the fee earning work. And then you’ve got the free time to put in the structures and the systems that makes everybody feel really valued and stays there and being incredibly loyal to

[00:20:37] Steve Fretzin: you.

[00:20:38] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, the smartest, the smartest rainmakers know not only to get that lieutenant in place, but to make sure that they’re getting a piece of the action that they’re getting bonuses and they’re getting origination credit in on those clients where they’re, they’re the key role, second in command, if you will.

[00:20:55] Steve Fretzin: I would add one more thing that is. You, you should not do the work and not take those client calls, but you should still be spending time with those clients. You should be visiting them in their office. You should be sending them regular emails, correspondence, keeping that relationship at the highest level without doing the work.

[00:21:13] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. That’s that. I was leaning towards that direction, but I, you went a different way, which was, I think just as important as what I’m, what I just shared.

[00:21:21] Dan Warburton: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know. We all love a nice long lunch with a glass of wine. We all like an evening, you know, or going out to the races or doing something like that.

[00:21:34] Dan Warburton: Well, this is your opportunity to be doing that and call it business and call it work. Because once you take these clients out and you show them a good time, and you show a real interest in what matters to them in their lives, their loyalty, they’re not going anywhere. And then they understand that you’re the face of it and you’ve got this team that handle it, but they know they’ve always got your phone should anything go terribly wrong and you can then jump in, you know, to solve any breakdowns.

[00:22:01] Dan Warburton: But of course, the art isn’t just rely on three clients for entire business, how about least, you know, have

[00:22:07] Steve Fretzin: a, have a, have a mass, have a massive, anytime you have one or two clients as your entire business, that’s a really bad model for, um, not only, you know, for just to make sure that you’re, that you’re sustainable.

[00:22:19] Steve Fretzin: Hey, Dan, one of the main things I wanted to get out of this call in this podcast today, and so far so good, I mean, everything you’re sharing has been killer, is when you hire a new, you know, I’m not, let’s move away from the lieutenant, but let’s say you’re like, you’re a law firm and you hire a new associate, three to five years in, capable, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:22:39] Steve Fretzin: There’s a process for delegation. It’s not like you just say, Hey, welcome to the firm. Here’s everything I do. Like even you were sharing, like, bring, bring Jonathan on every call for like three months, right? Like you had a step of how you were bringing that person in. But when you need, when you need to dish off work to someone and you’re concerned about the quality, you’re concerned about the timeliness, you’re concerned about things, which makes it.

[00:23:03] Steve Fretzin: Difficult to sometimes delegate because of those fears that it’s going to come down. Well, now I got back work and it’s done wrong and I have to do it again. And it’s, I’m now I got to fix all these problems. It’s just easier if I do it myself. I’m sure you hear that all the time. So what, what are the steps to delegation?

[00:23:19] Steve Fretzin: How does someone go from, from, from never delegating to, to now having someone to delegate to, to this person’s just doing everything the right way without me even being involved.

[00:23:28] Dan Warburton: Yeah. Great question. The first thing to get is that delegating can feel painful and like wading through mud at the beginning, you know, and, and, uh, and on the short run, yes, it is much easier if you carry on doing it all yourself.

[00:23:43] Dan Warburton: In other words, you go keep doing what’s urgent, right? Forget about what’s important. But what happens is you end up building a firm that relies you to always stay in urgency doing what’s urgent. Whereas you need to be doing what’s important and what’s important as the first step is when you hire someone is to set up regular weekly one on one calls.

[00:24:04] Dan Warburton: And for some, they might be needing half an hour every day, five days a week. For some, it might be one, one hour a week. For some, it might be half an hour and then a one hour a week. And what you do. Is you create a, basically a structure for what actions they’re going to take. What are they going to be working on over the next week?

[00:24:25] Dan Warburton: Then the next week you check in with them. Did you do this? Did you do that? Did you complete that? And, but also the other thing is make sure you have all your procedures written down. If you don’t have procedures written down, then every operation in the business gets done slightly different. And then you never know what to improve or how to improve it.

[00:24:41] Dan Warburton: Well, I

[00:24:41] Steve Fretzin: can stop you right there. So most attorneys don’t have that, correct? Yeah. Absolutely. Like that’s not, again, just like, and again,

[00:24:50] Dan Warburton: and it’s because they think that they’re the ones that are supposed to write it down. No, you don’t write them down. You have the person that does that work, write them down.

[00:24:57] Dan Warburton: Yes. And then you, what, what happens is then if that person leaves, you’ve then got a document that somebody can go and read before they start their position for this is how we do things around here. Yeah. You know, the book, the E Myth by Michael Gerber. Which is all about systems and that the ultimate dream of an entrepreneur is to have a business that runs itself.

[00:25:16] Dan Warburton: And it talks about how management books always fall flat on their face and never give any real value because they’re always talking about management techniques, which actually mean nothing without documented procedures. Only when you have documented procedures, you can say to somebody, did you do step one?

[00:25:30] Dan Warburton: Did you do step two? Did you do step three? You didn’t. Okay. Well, that’s what the problem is. So can you now do step three? Fantastic. Moving on. That’s it. That’s management. There you go. Yeah. You

[00:25:40] Steve Fretzin: know, some, something that I use your, you know, for years helping lawyers with some of this stuff is when they come up with that, the, the list of steps that need to happen.

[00:25:48] Steve Fretzin: For example, let’s say a document review, simple as it gets document review, that there’s a checklist that they provide to that associate that says, you know, did you do a grammar check, spelling check? Did you, you know, review the law to make sure that it was all, you know, in line that you’re, that you’re, what you’re putting in there is right.

[00:26:04] Steve Fretzin: So there’s a list of, let’s say five things and that they have to check off all those, all those buttons, all those lists, and then turn it in with that, with that, and not forever, but just like maybe, like you said, for the first number of months to see that, that you’re not getting something halfway.

[00:26:20] Steve Fretzin: You’re getting something that has been reviewed and checked before it’s turned in. And that saves you from that frustration that you might get if you don’t have that checklist.

[00:26:29] Dan Warburton: Yeah, absolutely perfect. So then with everything documented and then with those one on one calls, on those one on one calls, you can make sure they’re going through the checklist, but then you can have them start to review work with you.

[00:26:43] Dan Warburton: So what you do is, is a piece of work that they’ve submitted. You have them submit to you first, and then maybe you need to finish it off, tidy it, and maybe even do quite a big section of it before it’s then finally released to the client. But you then know you’ve got that one on one call coming up with them.

[00:26:58] Dan Warburton: And you can say, Hey, Jack, just want to say loving the time you’re putting in, see your dedication. And I wanted to elevate your performance even further. So here’s the other thing, get into their world and find out what they want to succeed at. Is there promotion? Do they want to become partner? Do they want Fridays off, go fishing, play golf, whatever it is, make sure that they get that, or they get to work towards that as an outcome of being employed in your business.

[00:27:23] Dan Warburton: Then you can say, let’s review this work because I can see what you can do to improve it so that you get whatever it is that you know they want. They’re then going to be feeling responsible for the level of workmanship that they deliver. Remember, you can’t just ask somebody to do something unless they feel responsible for the outcome of it.

[00:27:41] Dan Warburton: Right. Then you review that work with them. But what you do is you say, can you see the second paragraph that I underlined? You don’t tell them what you’ve changed it or how you’ve changed it or what needs to be done. You ask them, why do you think I’ve underlined that? And you let them read it and say, okay, why else?

[00:27:57] Dan Warburton: What do you think’s missing? What could you put in there? What you’re doing is you’re basically coaching them. You’re not advising them. It’s much completely different. When you coach somebody to find the answer for themselves, they start to elevate their performance in finding and implementing solutions.

[00:28:14] Dan Warburton: Then what happens is I guarantee you the next week when they then go over more work they’ve submitted whatever you went through with them on that intense one on one call they will very highly likely not repeat that mistake. And if they do a second time they won’t a third. So what happens is on these one on one calls you iron out mistake 1, mistake 2, mistake 3, 4, 5, 10, 20, 30, 50 before long within I would say as little as 6 weeks to 3 months.

[00:28:40] Dan Warburton: You will have nurtured a high performing fee earner. Then, when you find that their work takes hardly any amending, You then know that they are now the gatekeeper, not you, to then review the other fee earners work before it’s released to the client. So now you’ve now delegated away not only your fee earning work, but you’ve also delegated away review work and you’ve got a gate in place that ensures that no work gets released to a client before it’s reviewed by that person.

[00:29:09] Dan Warburton: So you can sleep well at night knowing that only good high level work is delivered.

[00:29:13] Steve Fretzin: Absolutely brilliant. That’s, these are exactly the things that lawyers just struggle with every single day. Um, I want to wrap up with a final question and that is around the, it work from home. A lot of lawyers are now working from home every day or three days a week or two days a week.

[00:29:31] Steve Fretzin: How does that impact the ability to coach, the ability to delegate, the ability to mentor in today’s law firm, uh, environment?

[00:29:41] Dan Warburton: Well, before you had people in an office and the partners would leave themselves contactable all hours or any days or receive a tap on the shoulder, you know. But even if you were, even if we were still working five days in an office, I would still say schedule regular one on one calls or meetings.

[00:29:58] Dan Warburton: Once you have a diary, which isn’t reactive, but it’s proactive. In other words, not one where you need to be available and you don’t know what’s going to happen. You look throughout your day and you can see, right, I’ve got my one on one with this partner, that partner, this colleague, these three associates.

[00:30:14] Dan Warburton: The rest of the time I’ve got for business development and I’ve got a long lunch. Then you know you’ve got your day planned. The art is, is don’t pack everything back to back and leave time for breakdown because things always happen and stuff comes up, but basically. Once you have a proactive schedule, it doesn’t matter whether you’re in an office or at home.

[00:30:34] Dan Warburton: You have an agreed time that you’re going to speak with everybody. You make sure that everybody in the firm has at least one person they’re accountable to that’s holding them to account what they promised they would do the week before. So everybody’s being held to account. Everybody’s learning to mentor the next way down.

[00:30:48] Dan Warburton: So you have a web of mentors from top to bottom, all the way through your firm. With that structure, you can have everybody completely remote working from home or wherever else. And as long as people turn up on time for their calls, and you look over the checklist of what did you do, did you do what you said you’d do by when you said you’d do it or not, and if they don’t They get given amazing support and care to ensure they succeed, not beating over their head and giving the opportunity to blame anything and everything, you’ll create a highly performing team that will be extremely profitable for you that you can enjoy running from anywhere in the world.

[00:31:23] Steve Fretzin: Listen, man, this is, this has been so great. I mean, when I, when I thought, when I met you and spoke to you initially and thought about this podcast and I, you know, my job is to try to pull out the gems and, and so I did my job and you, a hundred percent did your job because. There’s at least five really important ideas that have come up in this podcast that lawyers listening should be doing, sharing, talking about at the water cooler, whatever, because this is the keys, some of the keys to great success.

[00:31:50] Steve Fretzin: Uh, that lawyers just it’s just a big mystery to many of them how to do that. So thank you so much Let’s wrap up with our um game changing book and podcast and we’ve got one that we both agreed Yeah, I don’t think you knew about the podcast. I’ll talk about the podcast but the book and it’s it’s absolutely not And I don’t know what for lawyers It wouldn’t be as valuable for them as it would be for maybe a managing partner or entrepreneur.

[00:32:14] Steve Fretzin: I think it’s more for entrepreneurs and managing partners, but any, I guess any lawyer that has their own book of business and is driven to grow that they’re really an entrepreneur, uh, even if they’re at a large firm and mid market firm. So do you want to share that? Share that book? Yeah. A hundred million offers on a million dollar offers with Alex Hirose.

[00:32:33] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. A million offers.

[00:32:34] Dan Warburton: And the other one is a hundred million leads as well.

[00:32:38] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. That was the follow up. That was the follow up. Tell, and I’m going to share my thoughts too, but, but 30 seconds on why that, why that book is so, so, uh, amazing.

[00:32:47] Dan Warburton: It just breaks down the most cutting edge understanding of human psychology and how you write an advert and how you post online and how you get into conversation to make people want to buy from you and even have strangers want to buy from you.

[00:33:04] Dan Warburton: That’s basically it.

[00:33:07] Steve Fretzin: My takeaway from it was just thinking about what are, what are you delivering and does it match up and mirror with what people really want? And can you make your offer so good that they can’t refuse? And again, that’s, that’s a little more challenging in a law firm environment than maybe for an entrepreneur like you and I.

[00:33:25] Steve Fretzin: However, there’s again that the key with any good book is what can you pull out of it? What can you pull out of it? That usable for you? Yeah, and that’s in that, you know, my books, you know, all the books that are out there. That’s what we want to do. Um, the podcast is just Alex Hermosi’s podcast. And he puts his books on the podcast.

[00:33:45] Steve Fretzin: So if you actually just want to listen to the audio books and that’s how you take in content, then you can certainly do that. He also recommends getting the book and then listening to the, listening to it as you read the book, listening to the audio as well, and having that, that, you know, writing, reading and listening all at the same time.

[00:34:02] Steve Fretzin: And I think that’s a good idea.

[00:34:04] Dan Warburton: Yeah absolutely yeah yeah one of those books is really had a great impact on

[00:34:08] Steve Fretzin: my business. Yeah really great stuff and as we wrap up wanna take a moment to thank our sponsors of course get visible on the digital marketing side we’ve got lawmatics helping you. Delegate automate and make sure your marketing is a machine that’s being run.

[00:34:23] Steve Fretzin: And of course, get staffed up. There’s the delegation machine right there. Just have that virtual full time employee that you can delegate all your stuff to really good stuff. And if people want to learn more about you, Dan, and I did a, you actually sent me a, um, uh, an assessment that I did that was really interesting to kind of rate me on how I delegate.

[00:34:42] Steve Fretzin: And I think you said I did all right. I was, I was a little nervous about the score, but I like to think I’m a good delegator. But, um, yeah. But, uh, how do people get in touch with you if they want to, you know, hire you, learn more about what you do?

[00:34:53] Dan Warburton: Sure. Well, they can go to danwolberton. com. That’s danwolberton.

[00:34:58] Dan Warburton: com. Go there, and there is a 36 minute video that breaks down my greatest insights I’ve ever learned in how to profitably delegate away your workload. So that’s specifically tailored to law firm owners, partners, managing partners. So that’s right there on my website, free. Don’t even need to register, email, nothing.

[00:35:17] Dan Warburton: Just go there and enjoy. Watch that. Then if after that you want to find out more, then click the link below and take the 60 second profitable delegation assessment. See where you stand, gain a few more tailored insights, and then I will email you back and see if you want to improve that score.

[00:35:35] Steve Fretzin: Well, so great.

[00:35:36] Steve Fretzin: And so appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your wisdom and dropping some big, you know, knowledge bombs on my audience and in me as well. Really appreciate it, man. Let’s you and I, I’ve got some ideas of how you and I can continue to collaborate. So, um, you know, going to say goodbye for to you, but don’t leave.

[00:35:53] Steve Fretzin: I want to talk to you when, uh, but thanks again, man. Appreciate it.

[00:35:57] Dan Warburton: Great being here. Thanks

[00:35:58] Steve Fretzin: so much. Yeah. And thank you everybody for spending some time with Dan and I today really focused on that, on that piece of delegation and, and, um, you know, figuring out how to properly scale and grow your law practice, which is, which is the key for a lot of people, even, you know, attorneys that you, you know, that are listening, that.

[00:36:15] Steve Fretzin: You’re in a law firm, you know, you’re, you’re in the mid market law firm, you’re a partner and you want to elevate and get to a, to equity. How do I delegate to do that? Cause you’re so overwhelmed. This, this is all good stuff. So again, always working to help you be that lawyer. Someone who’s confident, organized and a skilled rainmaker.

[00:36:31] Steve Fretzin: Take care. Everybody. Be safe. Be well. We’ll talk again soon.

[00:36:38] Narrator: Thanks for listening To be that Lawyer life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website Fretzin.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.