In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Davina Frederick discuss:
- Davina’s career path and how she found her niche within the niche.
- Building a team with the right people and scaling your law firm.
- The seven essential systems all lawyers need.
- Alignment, attraction, and having clarity in yourself.
- There are many things that will allow you to make fewer mistakes as you build your law firm, including options that don’t cost thousands of dollars such as reading books and listening to podcasts.
- You can help to create the kind of law firm that you want to see.
- You can have it all, but you cannot do it all on your own.
- If you’re not really clear on what you want, then all the frameworks and optimism in the world aren’t going to change that for you.
“The difference between people who are really successful and people who are not successful is being very clear on what it is that they want and being committed to getting it.” — Davina Frederick
Connect with Davina Frederick:
Books and Programs: https://www.wealthywomanlawyer.com/products/
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/wealthywomanlawyer/
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Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
lawyer, people, business, law firm, women, clients, led, book, firm, helping, coach, life, systems, listen, put, law, starting, find, mindset, wealthy
Devina Frederick, Narrator, Stephanie Vaughn Jones, Steve Fretzin, Jordan Ostroff
Devina Frederick [00:00]
The difference between people who are really successful and people who are not successful I think is being very clear on what it is that they want and being committed, not just interested in it, but committed to getting it.
You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer Coach Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin [00:41]
Hey everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I hope you’re having a lovely day. I’m just back from spending four days with my teenager so I’m going to like I’m going to need some sort of medication I’m going to need some consulting and some therapy. I’m just kidding. We had a great time fishing and we didn’t catch the big fish we were hoping for but you know, anytime you can chill out with your teenager and have a good time and actually get along, right I think that’s a bonus. But listen, this show as you know is not about life and teenagers it’s about being that lawyer someone who’s competent organized in a skilled Rainmaker. My job every single show is to bring you guests that are going to enlighten you that are going to educate you help you be your best self your best version, and today is no different. I’ve got Davina waiting in the wings how’re you doing?
I’m doing well. Thanks.
Steve Fretzin [01:26]
Good Good to see you. And you’re What about to get a storm in Florida? Is that what you’re telling me?
It’s looking like it every time this this time of day it starts getting really dark in the summer and we don’t know.
Steve Fretzin [01:36]
You don’t know what’s gonna happen okay,
we don’t know what’s gonna happen it’s it’s surprised sometimes it’ll rain all around us and not right where we are and then sometimes we get thunderstorms and you need to be inside because usually lightning is on the horizon someplace so you get
Steve Fretzin [01:52]
your hour and then you move on and you have a beautiful weather so that’s not a bad thing. All right, you know obviously want to take a moment to thank the sponsors of the show we’ve got legalese working daily to help lawyers with their newsletters, their social media, their websites, law medics and all kinds of practice management tools they have and of course money penny on the virtual reception and, and not an automated robot on your on your website, but an actual human being talking to people on your websites, having conversations trying to get those those leads converted. And then of course practice Panther leader in practice management software, helping everybody be more efficient with their time and how they manage all their clients and prospects and all that fun stuff. All right, so to Venas quote of the show, which I absolutely love. I love it. I don’t know why either. I’ve heard it and forgot about it, which is sad for me in my memory. But I really do like it what what lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
That’s pretty deep. Yes, that’s Ralph Waldo Emerson,
Steve Fretzin [02:55]
I actually have it on a paperweight in my office. It’s a special little paperweight that’s made out of stone from Israel. And it’s a beautiful little thing. And I’ve had that for many, many years. I love that quote.
Steve Fretzin [03:09]
That’s wonderful. And so what does that mean to you? I mean, you have the rock you you sent it to me. So what what is that all about in your in your
world? Well, you may have heard that when people focus on the past, they can become depressed. And when they focus on the future, they can become very anxious. And I, for me, it is a reminder that what is Past is past what is done is done, and we can’t go back and we can’t undo it, we can’t redo it. And everything that’s happened has led us to this point today. And we also can’t predict the future we can try. We could be a futurist on our business card. But we really have to focus on how we want to show up in the world, and who we want to be. And focus on that in the moment and every moment in every day showing up with that. Yeah, that’s compelling for us. Yeah,
Steve Fretzin [04:05]
I mean, it’s hard to do people or people are just, you know, they’re steaming about something that happened last week. And it’s dragging them down, and they just can’t get out of there, what I call head trash, okay, where they’re thinking about, they’re worried about the future worried about the future, what’s going to happen next. And they’re not in the moment, day to day just working on their law practices, working on their marketing, making sure that what you do today, you know, will impact the future. But you’re not you’re not thinking that way. You’re, you’re just worried about things coming your way. So I really love that. And you are the founder of wealthy women lawyers. Divina Frederick, thanks for being on the show. Nice to see you again.
Nice to see you.
Steve Fretzin [04:42]
You had me on your show. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Well, you had me on your show. So you know, we have the quid pro quo on the podcast here. That was wonderful. Tell everybody a little bit about yourself, your background and what led you into being a coach and consultant for women lawyers.
Great. Thank you. Stiva I’m really happy to be here, I enjoyed our first conversation, I thought it was great. So I’m glad to be able to continue to chat with you about law firms and business, our favorite topics. I am an attorney, I’ve been an attorney for as matter of fact, this month, I’ll be celebrating 15 years of being a lawyer. But before that, I tell people, I’ve actually, I’ve actually counted it up, make the mistake of counting it up. I’ve been working for 40 years because of my first job was, you know, at like 1516 years old. And of my professional career before I worked for about 15 years before I became a lawyer, in marketing, I have a degree in journalism, and I thought I was going to be a foreign correspondent traveling world, that didn’t work out quite like I thought. So I actually wound up as a professional writer, moving through and getting involved in marketing as my career. And I’ve worked with a number of professional services, businesses, it during that first half of my career, and then I got an opportunity to go to law school and become a lawyer. And I did that. And then I reinvented myself again, because I had a lot of experiences, as I started my own law firm right out of law school, and grew that successfully. But within a very short period of time, my partner and I split, because I had, I was dissatisfied with what it was like to run the law firm business, because I was just working all the time. And it was taking a toll on my health was taking a toll on my relationships. And I just didn’t like who I was being. And so I stepped away for a while. And then I did start another law firm in 2013, I’m sorry, 2011, maybe by date, straight 2011. And it was a virtual firm. And that was before, there were all these wonderful tools now like we have a virtual and it was kind of unheard of. And I had someone, a male attorney, who said to me, you can’t do that your clients aren’t gonna like that. And in fact, I did have one client of all of my five star reviews, I had one client leave me four star review. And the reason he didn’t, the only thing he was dissatisfied was that I was virtual, and he didn’t have an office, he could come to one out of all my clients. And so I laugh at that today because I think about how much the world has changed. It’s a pandemic, and everybody’s vertical now. And it’s, it’s a whole new thing. But that led me to the second firm, I really began to seek answers for myself and how to do how to run a business and how to do it better. And that led me down the path of hiring high ticket coaches. And I as I began to do that, I really became involved in the coaching community, I love the work of coaching, and coaches have changed my life. And so I began to have I started out coaching professional service businesses, I began to have a lot of other women, law firm owners, women lawyers come to me because they had seen what I had done in my own business. And so eventually I niched down to just working with only women in law firm owners, and growing our business. So that’s kind of the short version of that I know, didn’t seem very short, but
Steve Fretzin [08:09]
but you’ve got you’ve got a niche within a niche, like, I’ve got the niche, and then you’re one upping me on the niche of working specifically with women. But it’s it’s really, you know, I can’t agree more that, you know, there was a coach or two that changed my life and put me on a path where I said, Not only am I doing better than I’ve ever done, but I want to do what you do, and how do I get into that. And, you know, it’s just so rewarding. And I think that’s why people are interested in transitioning into coaching and consulting. Because they realize that you can do something for many, many years and get away with it. But if it’s not rewarding, if you’re not feeling like you’re helping others and making a difference, it’s sometimes a challenge to get up every day and, and kind of grind things out. So I think that’s why there’s been, you know, a movement of coaches and so many more in the market now than ever. But you’re dealing with women lawyers, and just put the women’s side aside for a second. Just talk about the challenges that you’re seeing lawyers have in growing their law practice and in becoming wealthy becoming wealthy, maybe monetarily but also wealthy in
life? Well, I think that a number of factors come into play, and everybody’s different. Everybody has different challenges. But one of the biggest challenges right now it’s matter of fact, this is what I’ve spent my day talking to clients about is being able to build a team. I think we know that there is a formula out there for scaling a law firm, I teach a formula for scaling a law firm, you teach a formula for getting the leads and getting the clients growing your business. But the question that’s coming up now, I think among a lot of people out there is what do we do when there’s a part of the formula that we cannot put into place? Because we cannot hire people and find the right people to hire. So I think that is a huge challenge facing everybody in this country. Right now, if you own a business, you own a small business, you’re an employer is always sort of looking for those right people and also being able to keep your chin up. When relationships aren’t working out, there’s a lot of flux going on right now. And for the first time in probably decades, it’s not an employers market. I think that’s one of the biggest challenges facing most law firms right now. Okay, and
Steve Fretzin [10:25]
what else? I mean, that’s the that’s that’s one element of scaling is finding good people. That’s, that’s always been a problem. Even when there was lots of people to choose from, you know, the people would just choose the wrong people, because they had so many applicants, and maybe they’d make the wrong decision. Now, it’s more challenging. But but so I get that what what else would you say is going on that is difficult for your lawyer clients to scale?
The reason a lot of people hire me is because they, they don’t really understand the business principles. And a lot of times, they don’t know what they don’t know. I know, that’s where I was, when I was starting out, I wish I had somebody like me that I kind of hired back in 2007, when I started my own firm. And it’s not really, because I didn’t really know what I didn’t know, I thought I was in my 40s. And I had been in business for a long time, I certainly knew how to get business having been in the marketing world, and working for an agency. But when most of clients hire me, it is because they don’t, they don’t know where to start with scaling your business, they don’t have a framework, they don’t know exactly all the different business skills that they need. I’ve written a book about the seven essential systems that a law firm needs. And that kind of blows people’s mind when they’re like, What do you mean, there are seven essential systems and a lot of those are systems that any small business would need. And so oftentimes, that’s really the biggest issue is like, there’s all this information out there, but how do I put it into, it needs to be delivered in a certain order, we need to learn and, and put it into place in our businesses in a certain order. And so we get information overwhelm all this information about all the different things I need to do. And people, people often comment lawyers too, because they think lawyers are loaded, like right out of the gate or graduate from law school or starting a business we’re loaded. And so therefore, they can buy my thing, you know, they can buy my marketing tool, or whatever, you know, and I and so part of the reason that led me kind of to develop this program and write these two books is because I wanted to give lawyers the basic knowledge understanding. So when they were approached by people selling them different services, that they understood where that would fit into their business, because sometimes it wasn’t the right time. And sometimes it wasn’t the right service. So it has that kind of basic understanding of the business aspect of running a law firm business.
Steve Fretzin [12:49]
Yeah, the business of law, lack of systems, you know, team, these are all, you know, things entrepreneurs struggle with, and they, you know, have a business mindset, or, you know, most of them go into it, and they’ve got some business backgrounds, and lawyers really don’t. So they’re definitely at a disadvantage. And so, you know, I’m teaching systems, your teaching systems will lie, because they’re not taught in law school, they’re not taught at the law firm level, people go out on their own, and they’re just winging it all the time. And it’s just not an effective way to do anything other than, you know, hard knocks University. So, you know, getting a coach reading books, listening to podcasts, doing things that are going to make you allow you to make less mistakes and allow you to develop and absorb processes can be the difference between you know, years wasted versus maybe months. As the listener of this podcast, I hope you’ve learned some valuable lessons when it comes to not just managing your firm but helping you thrive. Practice Panther, the all in one legal practice management software’s designed to help you do just that. It has powerful reporting that gives you real time feedback on health of your firm and its finances automated workflows that free up your schedule while keeping your cases on track, and tons of native feature like E signature and two way texting that keeps your clients happy and informed. With practice Panther you don’t have to do it all by yourself. Get a free demo at practicepanther.com/v that lawyer to receive 10% off your first year.
Jordan Ostroff [14:20]
legalese marketing is not your traditional marketing vendor. Instead, we’re a true fractional cmo that helps you save time and spend your money the right way to build a practice of your dreams. We help through the entire process from customizing your intake system to driving leads, and even getting more reviews afterwards. Schedule your free call at legalese marketing.com.
Steve Fretzin [14:42]
Hey staff tell everyone what Moneypenny does for law firms
Stephanie Vaughn Jones [14:46]
where the call handling and life to experts and Moneypenny receptionist can ensure that your calls are directed to the right person seamlessly saving you time and money. Steve did you know that 69% of people don’t like to leave a voicemail.
Steve Fretzin [14:59]
I You now know that that’s a lot of business going away right there. Let’s cut to the chase, what are you prepared to do for my listeners?
Stephanie Vaughn Jones [15:06]
We’re offering an exclusive two week free trial. If you’re interested in hearing more, you can call me directly on 470-534-8846. I mentioned that you’ve heard this ad on Steve’s podcast.
Steve Fretzin [15:20]
Very cool. Thanks. But I wanted to ask you specifically about women. So the hope this isn’t a loaded question or anything, but, you know, every lawyer that’s looking to build a business, you know, is gonna have challenges. Are there some that are just seemingly more specific to women than to men?
Yes, short answer. Well, so let me explain this to you. I have had male clients, so I have had male clients. And the reason I chose to just continue to niche and focus on women, is because there was a time I was meeting in person. And I found that conversation is different when it is just women in the room, as opposed to when it’s men and women, because women have dealt through the decades with other challenges that men do not have to deal with. And so some of the things that sort of come up for my women clients is, you know, there was a report that came out last year, I think, was last year, by put out by the ABA, the American Bar Association, called women walking out the door. And it was about how so many women in their 50s, when they should be at the point where they’re really enjoying the fruits of their labor within a law firm are choosing to leave. And they were choosing to leave because they didn’t feel like they had gotten the level of mentorship support, financial backing, all of those kinds of things that their male colleagues have gotten. And if you look at one of the things for me, and this is a this is a me thing, but when you go and you search on the internet, and you pull up midsize law firm websites, the majority of the faces, you will see four partners are white male faces, and you see very few people of color. And now over the last decade or so we’re starting to see more women in roles that make it into roles as partners in law firms. So there are people who choose to kind of fight that battle inside of law firms. I choose to sort of fight it externally, by helping women have a vision, expand their vision and their possibility for what they can create in the world, and encouraging them to create those law firms. So a decade from now, two decades from now, we’re going to see a lot more diversity, to go out and create the kind of law firm that you want to see if you will remember, I don’t remember the exact stat now, I should have looked up before I got to you. But so many women left the workforce during the pandemic. And they did so because like it or not, women are still the primary caregivers of their children. And women are in some a lot of cases women are choosing it. Because they said I can’t trust this to anyone else. But me. And then a lot of cases society does dictate dictate dictates it, or biology dictates that or whatever it is right. But that is still we still find that women do the majority of the mental work when it comes to managing household. So we have women who are starting his law firm businesses. And they don’t think the same way. They think in terms of everything that I did to get here was on my own hard work. I worked hard to get this degree I worked hard to get this certification. I worked hard to get the next degree. I worked hard to open my law firm. And now there’s they’re continuing that same pattern of hard work HARD WORK HARD WORK. And they’re not making that shift in their mentality to how do I incorporate others into what I’m doing and become a leader. So that now I’m leading I have a vision and I’m want to create an impact. And I am becoming a leader to lead as opposed to being the one down in the trenches, doing all the doing and the work. And that, to me is the biggest difference I see between men and women and people. I was listening to your episode that you did with Jack Zenda a couple of weeks ago. And I was very impressed. He said, I’ve got a law office with 32 reference 32 people or 32 lawyers, but the majority of my clients come to me and they can’t even envision having a firm of that size. But I see that with men. And I don’t see that with women. So that’s kind of where I’m just trying to push the possibility that you can have it you can have it all but you cannot do it all which I think is kind of the big difference between men and women.
Steve Fretzin [20:02]
And then that might be a good segue to, you know, what’s been really involved in scaling to a million dollar plus, you know, book of business or law practice. And I’d love to hear what’s involved in that. And I know you mentioned, you know, the seven, you know, the seven key, you know, pillars or whatnot, and then a central system essential systems was your Yeah, lingo. So my bad. And then
so I actually, yeah, I actually teach a framework that is that is I teach a framework that helps people scale. And so the first element of that framework, there are five, first element is mindset. And I know you talk a lot about mindset on this show. And it’s something I’m always talking about. Because when you’re, when you’re trying to run your own business, you need to surround yourself with people who can support your optimistic mindset, I am not what he says positive or negative, I tend to think optimism versus pessimism. And it’s sort of an outlook, a general outlook, that everything is always working out for me. And so mindset is key. And I think there are so many people in our lives and so many, so much out there that is always trying to sort of pull us down like crabs in a bucket, that it’s really important to have people in your corner that truly understand what you’re going through, because they’ve lived it, they understand it. And they can hold that space for you of possibility, instead of always looking at what’s negative, then, of course, the mechanical part of it is attracting better clients, which is what you know, you’re an expert in leveraging your resources. So really learning to leverage resources. And I think that’s where a lot of people don’t, they don’t even think about leverage and how to do that much less how to do it, right. So that’s Time Team Talent, systems, automation, all those things, right. And then mastering your money. And mastering your money, I find a lot of people sort of don’t want to, you know, you hear a lawyer say a lot, I became a lawyer because I’m bad at math, right. And I say when you hang your shingle out, and you decided you’re going to operate your own law firm, or your own book of business, or whatever it is, then you are saying, I am going to learn business math, I’m going to understand business math. And so there’s support in that. And then the last one is just community.
Steve Fretzin [22:19]
Community. Okay, and I want to hear about that. But I want to step back, there’s an attorney I spoke with last week, who is working tremendous number of hours, and is not living check to check. He’s actually getting himself into debt. And when I asked him about it, he was very kind of belligerent about the conversation and didn’t want to share too much. But ultimately, he’s not open to automation. He’s not open to delegation. He says, I like doing things my way. And like, it’s my way the highway. And he’s just like, I just couldn’t get through to him. And it wasn’t it was like a free 30 minute therapy session for this guy that I offered up. And he just wasn’t open to it. So I mean, the mindset being so important that not only just positive, but you have to listen to people, you have to listen to experts. You have to be coachable. But it’s just I just, I just was shaking my head as I was talking to this guy, and I was feeling empathy. At the same time, I was thinking, how can I get off the phone? With this guy, he was the nicest guy. But it was like if you’re not going to listen to the simplest advice and thoughts, that someone who’s in the trenches every day is telling you like simple automations technology or a virtual assistant. And, you know,
because I’ve encountered that as well. And I really think that is they don’t want it badly enough. They don’t want the thing that, that there’s that they say that they want or they’ve been told that they should want or whatever. And I know even for even with my clients, I have some who really envision the law firm, their name on the door, everybody working for them big team. And I have others who want to just like they want a virtual assistant someplace, and they don’t want to be working for Bermuda. And I like to leave my laptop at home when I go to Bermuda, right? So people have different visions. And I think a lot of times, they’re not really clear. If you’re not really clear on what you want, then all the frameworks in the world all the optimism in the world isn’t going to change that for you. Because you have to first be clear on what it is that you want. And your vision may be different than other people’s vision. So if his vision is just to I just love being a lawyer, and I want to be a lawyer, so then work for somebody else and be a lawyer and don’t worry about getting business or you know, or keep it small, keep it all you know you and paralegal somebody answer your phones. You’re good and if you’re out sick, the everything stops. And if you want to go on vacation, everything stops and When you retire, the legacy stops whatever it is like, you get to choose that. But sometimes you don’t know.
Steve Fretzin [25:06]
But sometimes you don’t know, like, I got into a situation where I was running for businesses, I had 13 employees, I had three offices, I had $35,000 in overhead before I paid myself, okay. And I was managing all these people who weren’t as ambitious, interested, coachable, or whatever that I was, and ultimately, you know, the recession of 2008 hit and everything got cleaned up naturally, in like a natural, clean way, a cleansing, of removing businesses selling them off, moving people away. And now just as an example, I have no employees, everything’s automated, I have two virtual assistants. And I’m, you know, taking the lion’s share of the profits of whatever I you know, whatever I bring in, and I can’t tell you I’ve ever been happier. Like, for some people managing people is their promised land, and for what I would rather do is not manage people. But I’d like to coach and advise and help people that are my clients. And that’s where I can invest my energy and not not babysit is what I was doing was babysitting people that weren’t doing what they were supposed to do. And some people would say that I should have muscled through it and worked harder. But trust me, my wife will tell you no one worked harder than me. Okay. Yeah. And it was hard
work. It’s not a hard work thing. It’s also figuring out, there’s also a piece of sort of figuring out how do I attract just like attracting clients? How do I attract those employees? And, and that’s very woowoo sort of concept. But if we think about law of attraction, if we’re putting out energy and we’re attracting the right clients, why can we not put out energy correct the right, you know, attract the right people. But on some level, you weren’t aligned with it. You weren’t really happy with what you were doing. Anyway, there was something there that wasn’t satisfied you? Yeah. And I think sometimes, that’s okay. I mean, we we need those moments. I mean, anybody who’s been in business for any length of time has had those ripping apart moments. Those parts you know, where we’ve reassessed rethought become a different person. You know, I mean, my my mistakes,
Steve Fretzin [27:19]
my mistakes and missteps and the things that I figured out, I don’t think I would or should trade them for not having experienced them. Sometimes you have to go like someone that said, a big firm won’t know that they hate big firm law until they do it and spent five years miserable, and then they go out on their own. And they end up with the best possible life they could ever lead, or the opposite, struggling as a solo, feeling like you’re on an island, don’t like, you know, having to hire people and deal with employees and W tos and profit sharing and all that boy, that big, firm law sounds great. And then they get in, they’re like, Oh, this is the this is the life. So yeah, I think you have to you have a hopefully you fail in small ways. But ultimately, that doesn’t happen for everybody. Some people fail hard, and some people fail small. But as long as you what I call fail forward, I don’t think I made that up, by the way, but I say it fail forward. Right. That’s sort of important and, and listening to people that know more than you ultimately is, is a key.
Well, I nobody likes going through hard times, right? But we’re all going to have our hills and valleys, we’re all going to it’s just the human existence, right. And I certainly did not expect my first law firm to end up the way that it did. And my law partner and I are still friends to this day. And it’s and it’s probably because we chose not to be business partners. But it was me not being it was me recognizing that this isn’t what I envisioned it would be and I want something different, and then going out and trying to figure out what that was. And it’s messy. It’s messy. And, you know, I’ve been doing this now on nine years. And I absolutely love it. But just as any other business, it’s messy. There are things that you learn about yourself things that you like to do things you don’t do things I used to do that I no longer do, you know, and all of that is part of growing as a human being as well, you know? Well, very
Steve Fretzin [29:09]
good. I mean, we’re we’re actually blowing through our time here. But I do want to I do want to go back and say if you had one tip to my audience to say, look, this is something that’s going to really make the difference between success and failure in growing a law practice and making it sustainable. What would you say that is? I’m putting you on the spot, by the way, doing that?
Well, I will say that the difference between people who are really successful and people who are not successful, I think is being very clear on what it is that they want. And being committed, not just interested in it, but committed to getting it. And so getting really clear, I had to get really quiet and listen to my own voice and drown out some of the voices around me to make sure that I was really clear on what it was that I allotted for myself. And that may change over time. But always trust that internal guide that is telling you and then when you do that you will find or the resources that you need. As they say the teacher will appear, the resources you need will show up for you if you are clear what you want.
Steve Fretzin [30:18]
So I think it’s like, what do you enjoy? What do you want? What do you want your life to look like? And then work backwards from there and then create that. Right?
What is the perfect day look like for you? Yeah, I mean, that’s, that was the book I mentioned to you the book coach yourself to success by to Elaine, on how to say her last name. But it was a book I encountered in my 20s. That was one of the things that she said in that book, is to envision what your perfect day looks like. And that’s a perfect day, like a regular day, not just like a perfect day. When you’re on vacation, right? Yeah, what does that mean? I was gonna I was gonna have for breakfast. Who am I going to hang out with? Am I going to work out? What are we going out for lunch? Those kinds of things, you know, like, what’s your perfect day? Yeah. And it helps you appreciate how close you are to your perfect day as well as gives you those areas to tweak.
Steve Fretzin [31:07]
Yeah, I was gonna say the book coach yourself to success. What do you try to do put us out of business?
I know, right? Coach? Yeah, right, who needs us
Steve Fretzin [31:16]
anymore? You just coach yourself. And this was done that darn book did it again.
I I found that book in my 20s. And so coaching has always been looking for me. Yeah, even before I was looking at it. So I find that to be kind of interesting as so great.
Steve Fretzin [31:35]
So if people want to get in touch with you and learn more about how you help women, in some cases, men to get to the next level and build their wealth and really live the best life. How do they reach you? What what are the ways they can find you?
Well, the best place is to my website, which is wealthy woman lawyer.com and super simple, wealthy woman lawyer.com. And then pretty comprehensive. I talk about all my programs, everything on there. And also my podcast is there. You can also find my podcast of wealthy woman lawyer, very original, right? Well, the woman lawyer, same name on just about any podcast app, you look for it. And you can connect with me on LinkedIn. Divina Frederick, or connect with me on Instagram, follow me on Instagram at wealthy woman lawyer. So those are some of the ways I’m also on Facebook. There we go. might send a bit more casual and Facebook.
Steve Fretzin [32:23]
Yeah, we’ll put that all in the show notes. So it’s easy to find, but I just wanted you to share it with everybody and I just appreciate you being on the show and sharing your wisdom and talking this out. I think you know, whether you’re a man or a woman, a lawyer or whatever, it’s it’s you know, you mentioned you know, mindset you mentioned you know about automation, knowing the numbers I mean, you went through so many different things that people need to think about ultimately, they need to get your they need to get your books and they need to connect with you to to get the details on all this stuff. But I just appreciate you being on the show and sharing your wisdom.
Thanks for having me. I was joy conversation with you safe.
Steve Fretzin [32:57]
Yeah, that was a fast 30 I don’t know how that happened. I looked down on my clock and it was like 30 minutes is up. But listen, everybody another opportunity to be that lawyer someone who’s competent, organized in a skilled Rainmaker. You know, take to heart the conversations we’re having on this episode in previous episodes. You know, there’s always a way to get out of a jam, there’s always a way to improve your life. It’s sometimes right in front of you. You just have to pick up the phone or looking to do that web search or grab a book or something that’s going to help you get out of, you know, the negative feelings that you’re having or out of the situation that you’re in that you feel trapped. There’s always a way out. You just have to look for it, and you’ll find it. So, the well everybody be safe. We’ll talk again soon.
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website fretzin.com For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes