Erik Reid: Changing the Image of International Hiring

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Erik Reid discuss:

  • Why you should consider international hiring for your US-based company.
  • What to consider in doing remote versus in-house staffing.
  • The red flags to catch if you did make a wrong hiring decision.
  • Changing the stigma around international hiring.

Key Takeaways:

  • Using an aptitude test can help you understand someone’s potential within your organization even before you understand if they are the right fit for your organization.
  • Every role is different and different personalities will thrive in those different roles.
  • Communication and clear instructions can give you amazing experiences with virtual staffing and help you delegate the things on your list that are not worth your hourly rate.
  • Any role that can be worked remotely, can be worked internationally.

“If you want to break staffing down into the simplest form, it’s 50%. Are they able to do the job? Are they cognitively able to do the job? Do they have the skills for it? And then the other 50% is, are they the right fit for the role? Is the role the right fit for that? And that’s very subjective.” —  Erik Reid

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About Erik Reid: Erik Reid is the Co-Founder and Owner of Virtustant, a company dedicated on staffing exceptional international talent with companies worldwide. Starting the venture at 24 in the height of Covid, Erik has built a fully remote global business that staffs hundreds of individuals with dozens of companies. Under his leadership Virtustant has established itself as an innovative tactical solution in the realm of HR, empowering enterprises to expand operational teams swiftly and cost-effectively, ensuring sustained excellence and competitiveness.

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Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.


[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hey everyone, listen up real quick. Before we begin the show, I’d like to present my Be That Lawyer Challenge. If you’ve ever wondered how much more you could be making as an attorney, I challenge you to meet with me for 30 minutes to discuss your law firm. If I’m unable to identify ways to bring in more business for you, I’ll pay your hourly rate for our time together.

[00:00:19] Steve Fretzin: I’m just that confident. Go to Fretzin. com to accept this challenge and hope to meet you soon.

[00:00:29] Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

[00:00:51] Steve Fretzin: Well, hey everybody, welcome back to Be That Lawyer. I am Steve Fretzin. And as the announcer mentioned, and hopefully you’re having a lovely day today. And we are here again to bring you some great content, some great things to help you grow and develop and your law practice, and just be the best, the best lawyer.

[00:01:07] Steve Fretzin: You can be the best person you can be and anything in between. And I as you guys know, always have great guests. I’ve got Eric waiting in the wings. How you doing, Eric? 

[00:01:15] Erik Reid: Doing pretty good. Thanks for having me, Steve. 

[00:01:17] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Yeah. Super excited that you’re here. I really love what you’re doing and I want to get into that.

[00:01:21] Steve Fretzin: For those of you who are checking out, Be That Lawyer for the first time with Bretson, you guys may know that I’m a business development coach working all over the country and some cases all over the world, helping lawyers to grow their books of business, typically getting double or triple their books of business in a short amount of time and having their best year every year.

[00:01:39] Steve Fretzin: And I do this in two ways through our coaching and training program. I also run peer advisory groups. So. If anyone is interested in hearing more about that, you want to have a free evaluation of your law practice to understand where the gaps may be. I’m very, very good at asking questions and identifying where the money is.

[00:01:54] Steve Fretzin: So feel free to just reach out to me at steve at Fretzin. com. If you want to have that conversation, happy to do so. Let’s jump in right away, Eric, with our quote of the show. I really, this is a different one, sir. What is it? Sir, Dave Brailsford. And the quote is if you broke down everything you could think of that goes into riding a bike and then improve it by 1%, you’ll get significant increase when you put them all together.

[00:02:19] Steve Fretzin: So you know, welcome to the show and, and talk a little bit about that quote. 

[00:02:23] Erik Reid: Yeah, definitely. So this quote is the aggregation of marginal gains. It’s just improve 1 percent a day. The, the sir, Dave Bransfield, he’s very interesting. He Ran the UK national cycling team. And for over a hundred years, they were horrible.

[00:02:39] Erik Reid: They were the laughing stock. Certain brands won’t even let them use their bikes and their equipment because they were so bad. And he took an approach of instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, let’s just do incremental improvement. And I thought that really resonated with me because when you’re, for me, in a staffing business, in an online business, it’s very important to.

[00:03:00] Erik Reid: Not try to swing for the fences. You know, I’m not going to make the next Snapchat, but I can make a business that grows organically and is successful. And so that’s what we’ve done. We’ve taken everything that we do is. On a daily basis, we just try to improve one percent and that’s what the quote means.

[00:03:16] Erik Reid: Just try to get better, whether that’s in your work life or your personal life. 

[00:03:20] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And, and there’s a quote that I picked up and I use quite often from from the Green Bay Packers coach, what’s his name? Lombardi. And it was practice doesn’t make perfect, practice makes perfect. And I feel like that’s in a similar vein of, you know, it’s like you can practice the same crappy things over and over again, but you’re not improving.

[00:03:37] Steve Fretzin: So let’s, let’s figure out how to get that incremental improvement and grow that way. But spot on. So Eric Reed, you’re the co founder of Virtustunt and give us a little bit of your background leading into your Be That Lawyer tipping point. So people that are listening can kind of get to know who you are.

[00:03:51] Erik Reid: Yeah. So I graduated college in 2019, right before COVID started working in real estate finance. I was working for a startup. Didn’t really like the environment of not being my own boss and the way I was treated. So I started out my own company. I started an e commerce business. I needed to hire people.

[00:04:09] Erik Reid: So I was looking for a virtual assistant. I didn’t think that any of the sources I could find were trustworthy or a good price. So I was talking with my brother in law who had just hired someone for his business. And we kind of noticed a hole in the market. So we started hiring people from the Philippines, placing them with companies.

[00:04:26] Erik Reid: And then it grew into where we are now three years later, staffing on every continent and placing any type of role you could think of with many different businesses with law firms being our number one industry we staff for. 

[00:04:39] Steve Fretzin: But it wasn’t always easy, right? I mean, doing, doing, working in that business and coming up with something new and unique and trying to reinvent what’s out there.

[00:04:46] Steve Fretzin: I mean, what, what was the main challenge you had that led to your kind of. Overcoming it. 

[00:04:51] Erik Reid: You know, it’s an interesting question. It’s, it was never easy. It’s still never easy. There’s always a new major obstacle that comes up every quarter, every day. Right. I would say for us, it was just pushing through and trying to be creative, trying to grow 1 percent a day.

[00:05:06] Erik Reid: We, we found that quote very early from book comic habits. And you know, if you stay consistent, it eventually will work. We had a few marketing plans that were a bit alternative. That that really pushed us and allowed us to be profitable very early. And so I would say just understanding that. There was, there was growth to be had and what we were doing was unique.

[00:05:31] Erik Reid: Like there’s lots of staffing companies, but exactly what we do is, is relatively unique. And most people don’t even understand it fully. They, there’s a lot of stigma behind the word outsourcing, but I don’t even like that. Cause that’s not what we do. We do international staffing and you know, most people don’t understand something.

[00:05:50] Erik Reid: There’s a lot of growth to be had. 

[00:05:52] Steve Fretzin: Well, and the interesting thing too, is it used to be. Sort of a negative for anyone in the U. S. to hire outside of the U. S. They keep the jobs here, but the reality is that there’s a lot of jobs that people don’t want. And so if, if no one’s there to do the jobs, then, you know, then how are we getting the help that we need at the dollar an hour that we want to pay?

[00:06:11] Steve Fretzin: And so I think it’s, it’s really come into its own in, in the U S that it’s, it’s a phenomenal alternative to have. And I’ve been doing it for now for years to have this, this virtual staffing from, from other countries where you’re finding intelligent college grad multilingual, you know, competent people that can help you accomplish what your dreams are and what your goals are.

[00:06:32] Steve Fretzin: And so, I mean, that’s, I think it’s just that, that whole stigma is sort of, you know, 

[00:06:37] Erik Reid: It’s true. And it’s not just jobs that people don’t want here. And, you know, it sounds weird, but starting a business is incredibly hard. Financially, we get taxed very, very high. And I couldn’t afford Americans for a very long time.

[00:06:52] Erik Reid: I just, I wouldn’t have been able to scale to where we are now if I couldn’t hire people a lot cheaper. And so I think, you know, the market we target are small businesses and midsize businesses. We’re not even targeting the Googles that are the enterprise companies, right? We’re targeting small businesses and Small businesses just can’t afford people yet because the environment that we have, whether it’s big businesses crush you or the taxes that we face, it’s too difficult to hire people.

[00:07:23] Erik Reid: If you want to hire a media buyer and they want 100, 000 a year, but your profit is 150, 000 a year, what do you, what are you supposed to do? Right. So that’s kind of where I’m trying to help people grow their business in an alternative way. And so when you are much larger, then we can support Americans and we can hire internally.

[00:07:44] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And I’m not suggesting that there aren’t American jobs that should be had. I’m just saying it’s, it’s sometimes like to your point, very difficult to, to keep things in, in, in a budget where you’re trying to grow and, and you got to be very careful. The other, the other concern. Is the time, money and energy, you know, emotional energy of making a bad hire of paying benefits, paying salary, paying for training, and then then not them not working out.

[00:08:08] Steve Fretzin: And so I wanted to talk to you a little bit about how to properly evaluate and assess talent and some of the things that you do. And then some of the things that I suggest are done and, and let’s help people figure out that it isn’t just like, Hey, I met this guy. He’s great. She’s great. And I hired her.

[00:08:25] Steve Fretzin: And now I’ve got this, you know, this person that may or may not work out like there are better ways to go. 

[00:08:30] Erik Reid: Definitely. So as a disclaimer, I’ve hired the wrong person. Any, any person, anyone that says that they have a full proof plan of hiring is wrong because it is not two plus two equals four, right?

[00:08:43] Erik Reid: This is not math. If you want to break staffing down into the most simplest form, it’s. 50 percent are they able to do the job? Are they cognitively able to do the job? Do they have the skills for it? And then the other 50 percent is, are they the right fit for the role? Is the role the right fit for them?

[00:08:59] Erik Reid: And that’s very subjective. And so what we do is we really like to use different types of aptitude testing, whether that’s IQ testing, skill testing, et cetera, because that will That will give you the determination of that first 50%, right? If someone has an IQ of 130, they will, if they don’t already have the skills, they will be able to most likely learn those skills.

[00:09:23] Erik Reid: So, now we know they’re smart enough to do the job, right? Now, are they the right fit? That’s where the aspect of interviewing them goes, goes into and really vetting out, vetting out the applicant. That’s very difficult. And that’s the part that people can get wrong the most, and that’s why a lot of people use us.

[00:09:40] Erik Reid: It’s not a science. It is, it’s a pseudoscience. Right? Yeah. I would say interview them thoroughly. You don’t have to do 15 rounds. You don’t have to give them a million assessments, but think about culturally, are they gonna be the right fit? Right now we’re a startup. We have 35 people internally. I care more about who you are as a human being, what your goals are with your life, and what your potential is.

[00:10:04] Erik Reid: So when we use these different types of aptitude testing, I like to kind of think of, you know, when in the NFL, when we’re doing the draft, a lot of times people are drafted based off of what their potential is, not just what their production was in college, but what their potential is. So I like to use a test to tell me, Hey, this is what their potential can be.

[00:10:24] Erik Reid: And then use the interviews to understand who are they, are they going to be a good fit? Right. So I think that’s really important when evaluating talent. 

[00:10:32] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. I mean, something I’ve been doing for 20 years and I’m a distributor for a company called TTI, but it’s, it’s doing the disc assessments and distance for dominance, influencing steadiness and compliance.

[00:10:42] Steve Fretzin: It’s the four behaviors that someone has that sort of defines how they behave. Right. There are jobs that call for People that are more compliant focused and there’s jobs that are for more people that are more influencing focused. For example, a sales role, I would prefer someone that is influencing focus than compliance focus.

[00:11:02] Steve Fretzin: Okay. So if you can figure out what the environment’s going to be, what the job calls for and match it up with the person’s behavior style, That’s been a very successful part of the hiring process. Not, I wouldn’t say it’s the be all end all. I think it’s a piece of the puzzle that’s helping to know that it’s a better fit.

[00:11:21] Steve Fretzin: And that’s something that’s not done enough in legal and probably should be, and I’m not there to sell it. I’m just saying like, that’s something that, that, Sometimes, you know, you, you think you’re hiring person on experience, you’re hiring someone on the way that they interview, but you don’t really understand, like how are they actually built and how is that going to benefit the goals of the firm?

[00:11:38] Erik Reid: Definitely. And I mean, you mentioned personality test sales intake specialist, your personal personality matters much more than a lot of your experiences or your intelligence, even because you have to be on the phone. You have to be able to communicate with people. And generally good sales agents have a very specific type of personality, right?

[00:12:02] Steve Fretzin: And that doesn’t mean that, that, and again, I’m, I’m training people in business development that are very introverted, very extroverted and all over the board. And I work within their behavior style to adapt to how, what I know they’re going to buy into. So if I’m training someone that is an introvert on business development, which they’re fearful of, and they don’t want to, they’re not, That’s not what they bought into as an IP attorney, but I can, I can get them to work a process.

[00:12:30] Steve Fretzin: Well, they love process. They love systems. So let’s work a process in systems. And then the people that are more extroverted again, then it’s like, Hey, you’re all over the place. We need to bring you back to a system and then leverage your personality for that. But I think that anything you can do to, to include in an interview, in a hiring process, utilizing assessments always, I think a good idea.

[00:12:51] Steve Fretzin: Nope. No way. 

[00:12:53] Erik Reid: I totally agree with that. And it’s something that we, we actually started doing in 2023 and it really revolutionized our retention rates. 

[00:13:02] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. 

[00:13:03] Erik Reid: Like drastically improved it. And you can see just every role is different. But there are correlations between it. And when you do test for.

[00:13:12] Erik Reid: Specific things. Like if you’re looking for a systems person, you know, them being more spatial, more mathematical is more important than them being verbal. So it is also important to test for specific traits when you are using these assessments. 

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[00:15:18] Steve Fretzin: The other thing that I want to just bring up, and I know you do this and offer this here, like with marketing people, but actually give them a task to do, like give them an assignment to accomplish, have, you know, like if it’s marketing, have them create a video, have them, you know, dissect, you know, something in and create content.

[00:15:37] Steve Fretzin: If that’s what you’re trying to aim for. I like. Same thing with lawyers. Like if you’re bringing on a new associate and they interviewed really well, everyone loved this person, let’s bring them in. Maybe give them an assignment, right? Give them something to do that’s challenging to see how they accomplish it on task and to the degree, because that, that may give you some warning signs that they talked a big game, but maybe they couldn’t actually perform the way that you expect them to.

[00:16:01] Erik Reid: No, it’s true. We, I have a story. When we were looking for our first media buyer back in summer, 2023, My co founder, Kevin, was interviewing a couple of different candidates. Look multiple, very good interviews, right? And it was down to two finalists. One person interviewed, had an amazing interview. One of the best interviews ever was asked to give just a very light assessment.

[00:16:25] Erik Reid: I don’t think you should get very complex assessments, but. very light assessment, come up with a a marketing campaign, right? Like an advertising campaign. And he said, okay, it takes me a week. Then who we have now, his name is Alan. He’s one of our marketing managers and his interview wasn’t as good, right?

[00:16:44] Erik Reid: But he did the, the advertising campaign literally within five minutes. He did it on the call with him. And so we hired and one of our best hires ever. But that shows you the, he had the skills, but also the personality, he wanted the job. So he proved it. He, it wasn’t as much of the other guy, you know, I I’ll do it when I want to.

[00:17:07] Erik Reid: Right. It was, no, I want this job now. And that showed us that, that he cared more. And one of the soft skills people I feel like when they’re, when they’re looking for applicants is do they care, do they want to work with you? 

[00:17:21] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. 

[00:17:21] Erik Reid: Do they actually care about the job they’re doing? Yeah. I think it’s very critical to making the right hire.

[00:17:26] Steve Fretzin: Especially when you’re talking about I mean, internally, yes, but externally. You’re not with that individual. They have their own little world. They’re living in far away. And if you’re not in a position to know their work ethic, to know that they care, to know that they, that your business is their top priority and they’re making it their business.

[00:17:45] Steve Fretzin: Like that’s concerning, right? People are going to feel like they’re being taken advantage of. So how do you, how do, how do people, you know, kind of perceive the remote staffing versus the N internal local staffing? 

[00:17:56] Erik Reid: Yeah, no, that’s actually a really good point. The truth is, when you are working in person with someone, you get to see the small things.

[00:18:03] Erik Reid: Are they on their phone more? Like, things like that. And you can see how they work a little bit quicker. However, you get the same aspects with remote. Are they getting the job done? Right? All you have to look at is the metrics of what are they accomplishing? And I always tell people, you’ll know within the first week, if not the first two weeks, working remotely with someone, if they’re a good fit.

[00:18:23] Erik Reid: If they’re not. move on from them. One of the nice things about being able to hire internationally is you get to move off people much quicker than if they are living specifically in America. So I would look for a couple different traits. First, are they responsive, right? Have technology like Slack. I know a lot of law firms, I’ll go speak at conferences or webinars or just to our clients.

[00:18:44] Erik Reid: And they’re not using Slack. They’re not using a centralized place to communicate, right? Get it. First thing is get a way to communicate with people when you want to work remotely, don’t just be texting them, but if they’re not responding very quickly and you know, they’re not incredibly busy, that’s a red flag.

[00:19:01] Erik Reid: Honestly, that’s a good reason just to let someone go right there. If they’re, if it takes them four hours to respond, right, they’re clearly not working. 

[00:19:08] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. 

[00:19:08] Erik Reid: So being very hypersensitive to different flags that could come up in the beginning is very important to making sure that if you did make the wrong hire, you can get rid of them quickly.

[00:19:19] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And then I think it’s, you know, again, not to plug remote staffing, you know, too much, but like the idea that you have, you know, tens of thousands of candidates that can. Sort of fill in a role. So I’m working with someone a week. I recognize they’re not a fit. How soon and quickly can we get someone in to replace them?

[00:19:37] Steve Fretzin: That might be as good or better, obviously better versus if you’re doing it locally where you’ve got to run ads, you’ve got to talk to recruiter. Like there’s a lot of work and effort and time that went into that, that staff person that didn’t work out. And now you’ve got to, you’ve got to replace them and that could take months.

[00:19:52] Steve Fretzin: And this is a job that needs to be done like today. 

[00:19:54] Erik Reid: Yeah. Good question. So The answer is when you’re hiring internationally, the pool of applicants is much, much larger than your local town or city, right? It’s we’re talking hundreds of millions of people. Now, it depends how you’re set up. You’re going to use an agency like us.

[00:20:09] Erik Reid: I mean, we get 60, 000 applicants a month. It’s very, very easy. We move within a week, two weeks, depending on what the role is. I mean, if you’re looking for an executive. It can take a little bit longer, but we move very fast. If you’re doing it on your own, you can still move very quickly, right? When you’re looking for applicants, you get to go to different locations.

[00:20:28] Erik Reid: You can put different job postings on there. So I would say if you’re doing it yourself, you should be able to do it within two weeks. and save a lot of money in doing so. 

[00:20:38] Steve Fretzin: And the, the world is, you know, the, the, the world has changed and it’s, it’s such a global economy now that the idea that you can find someone that it is, you know, that you’re not paying the benefits to, right.

[00:20:49] Steve Fretzin: You’re not paying them benefits. You’re not, you’re not paying them unemployment. You’re not paying them. You’re not, there’s just, there’s just, there’s obviously pros and cons both way. But again, I’m. I’m talking a lot of the lawyers that I’m working with, they just need to dump stuff on somebody. They need someone that can go through their email.

[00:21:06] Steve Fretzin: They need someone that can do basic level social media posts. They, and they don’t do it. And I’m like, you don’t understand. It’s such a cost effective way. You’re charging 500 an hour yet. You’re in the weeds doing 10, 15, 20 an hour work. All day and you’re not building hours. You’re not out doing business development and I’ve got to fix that in some cases to get them in a place where they can go and do the things that are going to be the best use of their time.

[00:21:30] Erik Reid: I see that as well with a lot of law firms with a lot of attorneys, especially when they are solo practice. I would say, you know, it’s pretty easy to get someone to do your basic social media stuff, right? You just, you hire them, you tell them what the job is, hire someone with a little bit of experience or a lot of experience, depending on what you want to get done and give them those tasks, communicate with them, give very clear expectations, and usually you’ll have very good experiences, right?

[00:21:57] Erik Reid: But you can also staff more. So we have a lot of law firms that, you know, they will start staffing their paralegals. They will start staffing their intake specialists remotely internationally, because it is easier to plug and play. Now you did mention, you know, you don’t have to pay for the same employee costs, like healthcare, all those things.

[00:22:16] Erik Reid: That’s true. You can offer. those types of things if you want. So if you want to give them PTO, you can do that. You want it to give them benefit. You can do that. Yeah. You have the flexibility to do it or not to do it, which is. I think really amazing. The one advice I would give is treat them the same as you treat your in house staff.

[00:22:36] Erik Reid: So if you have, let’s say you have four intake specialists, two are in house, two are remote, and you’re going to have a meeting with the in house people, have a meeting with the remote people at the same time, treat them the exact same because you do want them to care about your company. Right? 

[00:22:50] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. It’s so important.

[00:22:52] Steve Fretzin: The decision that someone needs to make to try virtual assistance and go after that remote staffing. What are some of the biggest concerns that you hear them have and then what are the things that they realize once, once they kind of get through that date? 

[00:23:07] Erik Reid: Let me flip this on you. When I say outsourcing, what is the first thing that comes to your mind?

[00:23:12] Steve Fretzin: Outsourcing is just finding someone, you know, virtually to do it. 

[00:23:17] Erik Reid: Okay. Where do you think they’re from? 

[00:23:19] Steve Fretzin: They could be anywhere in the world as long, but I, I’m, I’m more partial to people within my time zones, but, but they could be anywhere. Yeah. I’m outsourcing my website to an Indian company, just as an example, like I’m not doing that, but let’s say that that’s an example.

[00:23:33] Erik Reid: Yeah. And that’s common. The most generalized answer I get, cause I love asking this question is, You know, I’ll think of a virtual assistant in the Philippines and India, because those are, population wise, those are the two most prevalent countries that do remote work, right? Outsourcing, I don’t even like that word.

[00:23:52] Erik Reid: It’s not, it’s not what people think it is. International staffing. I like to use that word because it explains a little bit more. You can place literally any role that can be worked remotely internationally. So you are right. If you’re an American company, working with someone in the same time zone is much easier, especially being awake at the same time.

[00:24:13] Erik Reid: Even if they are in Asia, they do have to work the graveyard shift, which is very difficult. But also specifically Latin America, because that’s the same time since as the U. S. Culturally is also very similar, but it’s not just staffing. You know, that social media person, that virtual assistant, you can staff any position that you can think of.

[00:24:31] Erik Reid: And we do staff, any position will staff, the admin assistants will staff. Marketing managers, executives, salespeople, you can get expats, native English speakers overseas, BDRs, like, anything you can think of. And one of the things that I try to tell clients is, you know, be creative. If you have it, tell me what you’re struggling with, right?

[00:24:52] Erik Reid: And then I can tell you what you can do with international talent. And one of my, I’ve, I’ve two, two dreams. I always like to ask applicants what their dream is. I think it really will tell you, they’ll tell you exactly where their, their goals are financially and what their career would be ideal for them.

[00:25:08] Erik Reid: I have two dreams. I’ve, my first dream is I want to create the largest staffing firm in the world. My second dream is I want to change the way people look at international talent. It’s not just doesn’t matter if they have an accent unless you’re doing sales sales, it’s kind of important to not have an accent, but it doesn’t matter where they’re from, as long as you staff for really, Quality people, right?

[00:25:30] Erik Reid: And that’s the thing where I think a lot of people get it wrong is because there are so many different types of individuals that don’t have the same education as in America. But if you have a good vetting process, you can find incredibly strong talent. And that’s something that I want to change. I want to change the stigma of outsourcing.

[00:25:49] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Well, I think it’s changing. I mean, if I even just looking back a couple years, four or five years ago, it’s, it’s completely changed. I don’t think I was considering it at that time. And I’ve been doing it now for a couple of years. And it’s, it’s a game changer for, for my business. And people are complimenting me constantly on my marketing and I’m not, they’re like, Oh, you’re doing all this crap.

[00:26:08] Steve Fretzin: I’m like, I mean, I’m creating the content. Yes. But all of the posts and the newsletters and the videos and all the things that are happening. They’re all happening by, you know, my marketing directors. So it makes a huge difference if and I want to move, I want to move to now this is a, this is a book that’s come up on the, on the podcast a number of times and I just, you seem like you really bought into it and it is, it is tremendous.

[00:26:29] Steve Fretzin: It’s a atomic habits. That’s a James clear. Yeah. So talk, talk to that. Cause that’s, that’s, you know, there’s a few books out there that really can make a difference for people pretty quickly. And this is one of them. 

[00:26:42] Erik Reid: Definitely. I can tell you the aggregation of marginal gains for me personally, just that one story in the book changed my life.

[00:26:50] Erik Reid: But if you’re, if you’re an entrepreneur, if you’re a business owner, it’s very important that you have good hat, right? You have. You make good decisions. It’s very important that you do that because, like, think about what Jeff Bezos does, right? Jeff Bezos, when he was the CEO of Amazon, he said, you know, I make about three decisions a day.

[00:27:13] Erik Reid: As you grow your company, you doing actual specific day to day work becomes less important because other people are doing that. Other people who are better than you are going to do that, like you said with your marketing, right? And I think Atomic Habits is such a great book because it does help you kind of think different and think about, Hey, how can I lead a better life?

[00:27:34] Erik Reid: How can I grow as a human being? How can I grow myself? Because when you do grow yourself, you’re going to make better decisions. You’re going to have better judgment, and that will have a very large impact on your business. So, I would, I would say, you know, it’s just improving yourself as a person. 

[00:27:52] Steve Fretzin: And I think there’s a number of books that allow you to, you know, not just learn something, but actually improve yourself and do things in a more effective way and make yourself happier.

[00:28:01] Steve Fretzin: And I think this is one of those books. The thing that I loved about it was. Not just talking, I help lawyers set goals, right? Goals for the future. Ultimately, I’m not as concerned about the goals as I am about the habits. About developing good business development, networking, social media, whatever it might be.

[00:28:18] Steve Fretzin: Habits. Because I know that the habits done well and intelligently will produce. And so we’ll get to the goal, but we have to back back out of it and look at, you know, how many meetings are you getting a week? How many, you know, how are they converting? What do we need to improve? But those habits are going to be the critical element to get to any goal.

[00:28:36] Steve Fretzin: So that’s really, I love, but it’s great. And by the way, not to take away from the book, but there is a phenomenal video on YouTube. That’s about 30 minutes on it. If you just go into YouTube and type in atomic habits and it breaks down the book pretty well. So that’s a little bit of a cheater. Yeah, do it, but you know, obviously having the book where you can annotate and like, you know, your tag and all those kinds of things is, is kind of fun to do too.

[00:28:58] Steve Fretzin: Eric, awesome man. Great job. Really dynamic. If people want to learn more about you, they want to get in touch with you. They want to learn about Virtustat, what, what are the best ways for them to, to find you? 

[00:29:08] Erik Reid: Yeah. Go to our website, Virtustat. com. And you can book a call with us. You could see what we’re doing.

[00:29:15] Erik Reid: You could also go to our LinkedIn page. We are marketing efforts over this last year. We’ve got 160, 000 followers, which is unbelievable because we never cared about that before. And you can kind of see what we’re posting, what we’re doing. And yeah, you can follow us there as well. 

[00:29:29] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Well, really great.

[00:29:30] Steve Fretzin: I mean, what you’re doing is helping a lot of people. You’re helping the people that are the, you know, that need the jobs. And then you’re helping a lot of the people who. Need that that staffing so really really kudos to you and what you’ve done in a short amount of time And thanks again for just coming on the show and sharing your wisdom, man.

[00:29:44] Steve Fretzin: I appreciate it 

[00:29:45] Erik Reid: Definitely. Thank you so much for having me steve. Yeah. 

[00:29:47] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely And of course, I want to thank our wonderful sponsors get staffed up green cardigan marketing and law maddox amazing friends of the show Appreciate them Hey, thank you everybody for spending some time with Eric and I today on the Be That Lawyer with Brettson podcast.

[00:30:02] Steve Fretzin: And again, you know, really consider what we spoke about today, not just about whether to, you know, hire virtually, but also, you know, that there may be more to hiring than just interviewing and putting someone through multiple interviews. There might be other things you can do through assessments and through testing them out.

[00:30:19] Steve Fretzin: To see that they’re gonna be a, a better player for your team and, and better to evaluate and not, not not perfect it, but make less mistakes. I think that’s sometimes the best we can do. Yeah. Right. Hey, everybody, take care. Be safe, be well, and we will talk again real soon.

[00:30:37] Narrator: Thanks for listening. To be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice, visit steve’s website for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.