Jessica Stern: Building Your Brand Around Your Magic Statement

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jessica Stern discuss:

  • Niche down to stand out in the sea of lawyers.
  • Honing in on when you are your best self at work.
  • Rate your clients and the type of work that is coming in to understand where you should be focusing your work.
  • Tapping into your magic statement and understanding what keeps you going every day.

Key Takeaways:

  • If you niche down to what you are passionate about, others will see that and you will stand out.
  • Find your differentiator – there are many ways that you can stand out and stay doing what you love.
  • You will bring in more by doing what you love than by accepting everything that comes in.
  • Spend time thinking about the client experience to better support your clients and your team.

“What’s your magic statement? How do you explain who you are and what you do?” —  Jessica Stern

Connect with Jessica Stern:  

Website: https://sternlawfirm.us/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jstern/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/sternlawllc

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/STERNLawLLC/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sternlawllc/

Thank you to our Sponsors!

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Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

clients, lawyers, people, attorney, decision, immigration law, legalese, business, helping, work, starting, jessica, important, specializing, law firm, thinking, staff, book, gration, spend

SPEAKERS

Narrator, Jessica Stern, Steve Fretzin, Jordan Ostroff

 

Jessica Stern  [00:00]

I think the simplest thing that I’ve learned the yet the most powerful is, what’s your magic statement? And what’s the how do you explain who you are and what you do in your like quick elevator pitch, right?

 

Narrator  [00:21]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer, coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

 

Steve Fretzin  [00:43]

Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I am Steve Fretzin. And I’m so happy that you’re with us today. Oh, man, it is another freezing day in Chicago. We’re trying to wrap up a winter here. And it’s not easy. wherever you’re from. Just appreciate that you’re not here. No, we love Chicago here. We just give each other a hard time in Chicago. But listen, you know, you can’t, you can’t always be in nice weather all the time. But it’s all about helping you guys figure this thing out called, you know, being a lawyer or running a practice. And there’s so many different angles to it. And I’ve got a really good one for you today that I think could help you really redefine how you control your destiny and how you can make your way in a very crowded competitive environment. And before I introduce my guest, who’s awesome, Jessica, I just want to take a moment to thank our sponsors, and that is legalese marketing and money, Penny both helping me to grow my business. And they do it mostly for lawyers. I just happen to sneak my way in because they let me which is great. So they’re terrific and more about them later. And Jessica submitted a quote that I just think is so on the money with what our topic is today. And it’s Hugh trims himself to suit everyone will soon Whittle himself away. And that’s a Raymond Hall quote. And Jessica, welcome to the show. Jessica Stern, founding partner of the first ever crema Gration firm in the US. Welcome, Jessica. Thanks, Dave. Thanks

 

[02:11]

for having me. Yeah.

 

Steve Fretzin  [02:12]

And tell me about that, quote, I think it’s a really interesting quote, and so on target with our topic today, which is mostly going to be about how you specialized and really kind of carved out a niche for yourself in a very crowded environment.

 

[02:28]

I’m so grateful that I came across this concept early on when I started my law firm, because it helped me to really understand that you really aren’t going to succeed or really be happy as a lawyer if you’re trying to be everything for everyone. And, you know, instead thinking about who’s really your ideal client and putting up that red velvet rope. And the concept of the people that you don’t take on as clients are, are probably just as important as those who, who you do. And that really served me well from the beginning. And that’s why the decision was made to really niche down on immigration law.

 

Steve Fretzin  [03:07]

Yeah, and I did the same thing. I mean, I realized long ago that I was sort of a small player in a huge field of coaches that help people with business development. And when I started working with lawyers in realizing, you know, how little they, how little training really they had in business development. And it just seemed like, here’s an open field, where I could really make a difference in the industry. And so then pushing the chips in was scary, because here’s a financial services company that wants to work with me, or here’s a manufacturer that wants to work with me. And I’m saying, Well, no, I don’t do that anymore. I really work with attorneys. And that’s tough to think about turning away business or specializing and how that can affect you. But it was the best decision I ever made.

 

[03:47]

Absolutely, I mean, it is scary, especially when you’re you’re starting out in a new business idea. But people think of you right when they’re thinking about coaching for lawyers specifically just says I hope that other colleagues and clients think of us whenever there’s a criminal immigration situation, you know, instead of kind of getting lost in the sea of a bunch of criminal defense attorneys or a bunch of personal injury attorneys, people really identify with what you’re passionate about, because you’ve identified with what you’re passionate about. And it really is ringing clear to everybody around you,

 

Steve Fretzin  [04:22]

just being known for something being not known for everything. And some lawyers have to make a decision about that at some point in their career, or it’s handed to them. But we’re gonna get into that later. Would you do me a favor, just give a little background because I want to everyone sort of understand, you know, how you came to be and then in leading into running this first, you know, immigration firm in the country?

 

[04:43]

Yeah, absolutely. I was a public defender for a while I went to law school to be a public defender, to fight for the underdog and make sure that I can be the voice for the voiceless and that was really where my heart was starting now and and still is, but I realized while doing that, that are non US. and clients really were suffering, you know so much more than the average person who’s sitting in a jail already in a difficult situation. And at that time, there was a Supreme Court case that came out Pythia versus Kentucky that said that every criminal defense lawyer has to understand immigration law enough to be able to advise their client if there’s going to be a risk of deportation. And so at that point, I knew that I really had to dig into this work carefully. And I wanted to be an expert to help our non US citizen clients navigate through those challenging times. And so that that’s how stern law was born. That’s how we decided to focus on immigration law. And, you know, it’s really been an amazing journey. Because, you know, the immigration law is where there’s the most interesting side of immigration, otherwise, immigration can sometimes be, you know, transactional or paper focused. But for somebody who’s a litigator and really wants to be helping fight for their clients, it’s the most interesting, constantly changing area of law. And it’s kind of also the type of immigration law that makes you want to run for the hills, because it’s, it’s tricky stuff and can be really heavy work. But it’s, it’s been extremely rewarding. Yeah, and

 

Steve Fretzin  [06:12]

so there’s a couple of things going on. I mean, one is the specialization aspect. And then the other is, you know, to structured as an all women led firm, talk to me about that for a moment.

 

[06:23]

Sure, you know, I didn’t necessarily endeavor to have a law firm of all women, but maybe it’s more just naturally what, what I’m attracting based on what I’m putting out there. But in a courtroom, even today, it’s still mostly men. And, you know, starting out as the young female attorney, I was able to navigate through that, and, you know, you still have to deal with those things sometimes. But I think that when other women see somebody who’s confidently presenting themselves and and achieving really great results, even sometimes better than the male counterparts are because of just maybe a different approach or, you know, different way of thinking about things and communicating, it just kind of took off from there. And I just kept attracting, you know, female paralegals attorneys, and, you know, we have nothing against men, and we’re you hired men, but they just don’t cut it, it’s, it’s been,

 

Steve Fretzin  [07:19]

so like my wife.

 

[07:24]

Right, it’s fun to look around the room, you know, we have a morning huddle every morning, and we see these women who, you know, have started out, maybe this is their first professional job, you know, maybe the intake specialist or the receptionist, who’s our director, first impressions, you know, maybe this, you know, this is an opportunity for them for the first time and to see them grow, and to see them take on leadership and, and stand up as, as leaders in their communities to is in really rewarding.

 

Steve Fretzin  [07:51]

Yeah, that’s, that’s really, it’s amazing that you’re that you’ve, you’ve sort of done two things in the same law practice that are both unique in the sense of, you know, that type of specialization and how you’re building out your brand and your niche, very different than than most. And then on top of that, too, that also just had morphed into this women led firm, which I think is also a unique differentiator. And I think that’s what lawyers are looking for. And I have these conversations with my clients, you know, almost daily, where they’re trying to figure out, hey, I’m an m&a attorney, amongst 1000s of m&a attorneys, right? all doing the same things. How do I differentiate? What do I say? What do I do? What is my brand? If I know I’m a good attorney? My clients love me. But how do I separate from everybody else? So I mean, I kind of get how you did it. But have you helped others? Or have you? How do other attorneys do what you’ve done to get known in a, in a crazy competitive space?

 

[08:48]

Some of the best coaching that I’ve received so far has been to really identify what you enjoy, right? If you could be doing the thing that you love, all day long, what would that be? And so honing in on that and really realizing that you know, you are your best self when you’re doing the work that you love for the clients that you want to be helping. And so, you know, what I help other young lawyers with or lawyers that are just kind of struggling to identify that for themselves is to really think about that, like Who who are you happiest working for, you know, what type of case are you happiest when you’re doing that work, because that is going to resonate with your clients, that’s going to resonate with your colleagues, they’re going to see you light up when you’re working on on these types of cases. And then just do more of that and be, you know, become known for that. And the work will come you know, it really will. And if you’re just spread then doing a bunch of work that you’re unhappy with it, you’re just not going to get anywhere and you’re gonna be miserable.

 

Steve Fretzin  [09:53]

Yeah, so that could be a decision regarding the kinds of clients you take on the type of matters you take on or practice or you focus On and maybe there’s areas to delegate to. So if there’s certain things like in litigation that you love doing, and there’s other parts that are kind of time consuming and mundane, you know, you might want to consider you know, how you how you delegate that out. So you can stay with what you love. And that passion comes out, versus you being miserable, because you’re doing all the grunt work that is sort of below your pay grade, or that just isn’t interesting.

 

[10:22]

Yeah, and it could be people in your office that, you know, do it if you still want to be known for doing that work. But we’ve even gone to the extent of referring out US citizens who have a criminal case, and some people think we’re crazy, because, you know, we’re a criminal defense firm as well, we represent clients in criminal cases, but only non US citizens. So we exclusively are only defending non citizens. And that allows us to also, you know, develop more relationships with our colleagues to say, if this is a citizen, you know, we could do it, but it’s just not what we’re passionate about. We want to focus on the legal changes and policy changes that come up in the world of criminal Gration, so we, you know, have that opportunity to have a trusted referral partnership as well for the stuff we’re not doing.

 

Steve Fretzin  [11:08]

Yeah, and I like to keep going down this path, because I think between you and I, we can we can really get some great ideas into the hands of the listeners of my show right now. And I think number one, number one is enjoyment, right? Like, enjoy what you do, people can tell if you’re miserable or happy based on the work you’re doing and how you’re spending your time. And quite frankly, you know, you you want to be happy? I mean, that’s that’s sort of one right? What would be another way for an attorney to say, look, I’m doing five different things. I’m doing estate planning, criminal, real estate, you know, like, I’m doing all these things. I’m kind of a general, and I’m getting business from all those things. But I enjoy one or two, but how do I, what else could you share that would help them make that decision or execute on the on the on the direction they need to go?

 

[11:56]

Yeah, I mean, there’s a lot of different ways of going about it, if we’re talking about enjoyment, then it’s potentially landing on which ones you enjoy the most. And, you know, trying to weed out the others. But I think, a way that we were able to do that has been to actually, like rate our clients and rate the type of case. So it sounds, you know, maybe a little bit odd. But, you know, we’ve actually gone through and said, Okay, here’s what the characteristics of an a client look like, Here’s what a B client looks like, here’s what a C client, and here’s an F client, here’s the type of matter that we consider an A to F, right, and it because you might not be able to really identify what you really think is your favorite or what you want to be doing the most. But when you think about the characteristics, or the times where you feel the most drained versus the most energized, or the most interested in your work versus bored, you know, that can help you to identify what those things are. And then you already might have a client base for that stuff you don’t want to do anymore, but make some relationships with other colleagues and you already have them, right. But right now, you’re probably just kind of not necessarily strategically thinking about the partnership to refer those out. And if you feel like they’re going to do good work for your clients in the areas that you don’t want to do, you know, make that plan because you’ll you’ll bring in so much more of what you love. But

 

Steve Fretzin  [13:21]

that’s such a great idea. And guess what, nobody’s doing it, right, nobody’s taking the time to rate their ideal client, no one’s taking a moment to rate their ideal matter on a one to 10 scale or an ABC scale. So just doing that alone, I think would be eye opening for people to realize, you know, wow, I’m seeing a trend here, that the work that’s coming in, in, in real estate is far more interesting and better than the work coming in, in the state planning, which I hate or whatever. And I’m reading the matters, and maybe what their value is, what their profitability is, and you can make some real logical decisions based on looking at like 2021 to see what you really should do and where the direction is going and where the maybe the momentum is right.

 

[14:05]

Exactly, yeah. And staff, talk to your staff to if you have staff, right what do they enjoy doing the most tickets if you’re not trying to do all the work yourself, get the ideas from them, because then they’re going to be happier working for you if if they know that you’re worried about them. Having draining clients, you know, you don’t want them to be bogged down with that either. And you brought up you know, the value of the cases and it’s really important to you know, you look at the average case value of the work that you’re doing and you know, you you might start increasing your prices on this stuff, you don’t really want to do that much anymore, you know, maybe if they still really want to hire you for that great but, you know, you’re focusing on being marketable in the stuff that you really enjoyed and then you know, kind of price people out or refer them out, you know, if it’s not something you really want to be doing.

 

Steve Fretzin  [14:54]

Right. So you’re getting paid a premium on the stuff that you don’t want to do and either they take it and you get paid out. or they say See you later and they go somewhere else. And that’s fine because you didn’t want to do that work in the first place. I.

 

Jordan Ostroff  [15:06]

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[15:28]

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Steve Fretzin  [15:57]

So we’ve got an idea of that we enjoy something we’ve we’ve put it through the test to see you know that it’s profitable, that it rates well, that it’s work we want to do and all that is the next step, then sharing the intent with your clients, with your friends with your network, that, hey, I’m, I’m now focused on this, like, did you change your infomercial? Do you change your website? Do you make those changes so that people know, this is now what I’m what I am all about what I’m doing? And in how does someone make that decision? And then execute?

 

[16:32]

Yeah, I mean, how you market and how you brand stuff is important. And I think the simplest thing that I’ve learned the yet the most powerful is? What’s your magic statement? And what’s the how do you explain who you are and what you do in your like, quick elevator pitch, right, but not like I’m a lawyer, you know, then the elevator closes, and nobody’s really that interested in what you’re doing. But if instead you think about, like, I fight the government, you know, in defense of my clients American dream, or, you know, I fight like hell to keep my clients in the United States who are trying to find a better way, or we defend the American dream, it gets people a little bit more excited, and interested, like, tell me a little bit more about that, or wow, you know, this must be a really challenging time. Right now, with all that’s going on with immigration, it just starts the conversation more, and it helps people realize that there was something a little bit different about how you communicate what who you are and what you do, and hopefully they think about you the next time the situation arises.

 

Steve Fretzin  [17:37]

So I think if you’re out there, you know, sharing your intention, or your your, your specialization with your network, and you happen to get the old work that you used to have that used to get, it’s still coming in, you don’t have to turn it away. I mean, that’s one option, but you don’t have to, you can raise your rates, or you can take it on. And over a period of time it could whittle down to what you love and what you’re specializing in. So if it’s real estate, and you’re still getting estate planning, you’re still getting some litigation, okay, you can make a decision to take it on. But you’re you’re starting to build that brand around what you call a magic statement around what you’re wanting to do, and how you want to spend the rest of your career for example. So I think that’s really important, not only sharing that intention, but understanding it’s not you don’t have to turn away everything. Because it isn’t in your specialization. But you can that’s that’s a decision you make based on maybe again, how profitable it is who’s coming from there? Was it someone you really feel happy to help versus someone maybe not so much?

 

[18:36]

Yeah, yeah. And I know, this is tough for us sometimes as lawyers where we’re getting together at these CLE events and, you know, networking events, we’re with a bunch of other lawyers and we start to kind of talk shop and sometimes it feels like we’re supposed to be commiserating, you know, with like, oh, you know, how are you? I’m living the dream, you know? Like, that’s the way we’re talking about, you know, the work that we do, and I totally get it. But I do think we have to tap into, like, what makes what gets us going every day? And why should the people around us be interested in in that and think about us the next time. And if, if we’re struggling with that, and if that’s real, you know, that’s our work is hard, then you know, it’s time to maybe just spend a little bit more time reflecting on some of these things, like we’re talking about, rather than just going through the grind, and just taking on that next case, at the same fee that you were and you’re just trying to keep up, you know, with the on the hamster wheel.

 

Steve Fretzin  [19:36]

Right. And so again, when you start getting into specialization, and you become known for it, the work that’s coming in becomes more repeatable, more predictable, and you can staff it up differently, too. So, you know, again, if you’re looking to have that balance and control and freedom that most attorneys are searching for, and I teach, you know, on a regular basis, a big part of that is, you know, not only bringing in the right It kind of business and but then understanding, you know how you need to staff it how you need to, you know, whether it’s an admin to take away your administrative duties and bookkeeping so that you can focus on the billable hour or have time for business development and marketing. You know, you have to bring in the right teams to talk talk about that for a moment, too, as far as you know. Alright, so now I’m specializing, I’m bringing a specific type of work, how do I have to set up my shop so that I’m providing great, excellent service? How did you do that? Because I think that’s something I remember about us talking about was just just the ability to provide that high level service.

 

[20:35]

Yeah, I mean, this is, the hardest part of running a law firm is the systems and operational side of it, you can be a really excellent attorney, and do a great job for your clients, but your clients are not happy, because you know, the way that you’ve maybe set up the communications systems, or maybe you don’t have any communication systems, and you’re just like giving them your cell phone number and trying to call them back, you know, running back and forth to court, you know, thinking about what structures really needs to be in place in order to spend your time the way that you want to be. So I think that’s one thing is really thinking about, what do you what do you need to get done in the average week and separate out your time to make sure you’re, you’re reserving time to do that, like, you need to reserve time for the financial system, you need to reserve time for marketing, you need to reserve time for your staff and your people and your office stuff and, and help your staff also, to think about their time that way too. Because if it’s just getting, I think about like the jar, you know, the jars just getting filled up with like a bunch of little, little, little, yeah, then there’s no room for the big rocks, and then that’s where your your staff is going to get burned out, your clients are going to be unhappy, just because the important foundation of client communication, and you know, good case management is going to fall through the cracks. So I would say spend time really thinking about the client experience, you know, that’s something that’s really important to us, your staff is going to really be proud to work somewhere that is making the client, the focus. And ultimately, you know, just making sure that you’re considering what the clients experience is and having you make that better. So yeah, I mean, things like, how, how are you setting up callbacks for your clients? Right? This, I think, is the number one thing, it was such an adjustment for clients to get used to the fact that we schedule all our calls. So when they call and they want to talk to the attorney, they’re not going to talk to the attorney right away, if it’s an emergency, and we’ve defined when an emergency is, that’s when the attorney is going to get interrupted for this type of call. But otherwise, you know, we’ve got a scheduler, like you do you know, where you pick a time to talk, and your receptionist can do it, or you can send a link to your client and they can book the time specifically, we even do that with the paralegals to, because if they’re bombarded with calls all day long, how they’re going to get any work done. Just things like that. And I mean, we could talk forever about systems and a law firm. But we we have like, monthly meetings about procedures and systems and how can we all as a team collaborate on how to make the experience better for us internally and make it you know, more enjoyable to do our job every day? And then for the client, you know, how, what’s their impression? And how does it feel for them? And how can we make it better for them as well?

 

Steve Fretzin  [23:30]

Yeah, I think that’s that’s the key is you’re building your brand and in a specialized space. And if you have good clients service, you have the appropriate delegation, and if you know what that client’s journey is, right, they call it client journey, then you’re gonna get the repeat business, you’re gonna get the referral business, you can automate a lot of it too. So, you know, for example, I have, you know, the newsletter that’s automated, I’ve got my social media being worked out through legalese marketing, thinking legalese. And, and there’s things that can just happen so that people you’re staying top of mind and staying a resource. So that so that, you know, the clients that even have finished with you, they’re never really finished in the sense that if you can stay top of mind and when their friend has a problem with immigration, criminal issue, whatever, not too not too far fetched for them to refer you.

 

[24:19]

Absolutely. I mean, people remember how they felt, right. I mean, of course, they want they want the result, and you’re gonna give them the result. But they also remember the experience that they had and working with you and knowing that they were treated as an important human being not just somebody else in a line, you know, clients are shuffled through so many different systems and reasons why they’re told to hold on don’t speak up, you know, wait, wait for the more important person to, to go first, you know, and, and they really, they remember when you made them feel important. Yeah.

 

Steve Fretzin  [24:55]

Well, this has been fantastic. I mean, from a standpoint of of lawyers, you know, taking in the content we’re talking about around how to specialize. My hope is that someone’s like really working it through their brain of, okay, I’ve got to, like rate matters rate clients, like figure out, you know, what do I enjoy, and then moving it through to sharing intention, updating things and realizing that there’s a way to do it. And, you know, even even lawyers that are in big firms or mid market firms can do this, they can, they can specialize in an industry, you know, they can work with, you know, dentists, and not everybody, they can work with financial services, not everybody, and build out a brand around a particular industry, as well as specializing in a particular type of litigation. But if you’re more broad, then pick an industry and that you’ve done a bunch of work and then focus there. So there’s so many different ways to do it. It’s just a matter of, are you memorable or not. And if you’re memorable, you’ve got such a greater chance of getting that Call of being remembered by other lawyers, and by your clients than if you’re a generalist, which, you know, my father was a generalist, and he, but he was back in the 70s 80s 90s, when like, that was totally acceptable. And it was not as crowded and complex. Yeah.

 

[26:04]

So they’re going to the law office and knocking on the door and asked him what book can you help with not googling specifically what they need and find the specific lawyer for that.

 

Steve Fretzin  [26:13]

Yeah. And he could always refer it out to someone else if it was beyond his paygrade or, or you know, over his skis as it relates to you know, being too big of a matter for a solo. Anyway, I just think this is terrific. And what you’re doing is fantastic. I, I know people can learn a lot more from you, if they want to get in touch with you to get in touch with you for work or just for questions. How do people reach you?

 

[26:35]

Yeah, our website is great stern law firm.us There’s a forum there just asks what what do you want to accomplish and you know, if you want to reach out to me directly, you know, I’ll be notified and if we can help anybody you know, in the in the area of crema Gration, you know, any criminal defense related situation for somebody who’s not a US citizen, deportation issues, anything like that, we’re here to help. Let us know. Thanks for your time to Steve and congrats on the book.

 

Steve Fretzin  [27:04]

Thank you, thank you. Yeah, it’s exciting and got some bestseller status. So it’s really, you know, that look, it’s that’s every everybody that writes a book that’s their dream is to is to get a positive feedback and positive status on a book. So anyway, I appreciate that. And thank you so much for being on the show and sharing your wisdom with my audience. I really, you know, I know that this is such a critical decision that lawyers need to make. And you’re just you’re just kind of greasing the wheels to help them make that decision, which will, in fact, improve their practice improve their life overall. So it’s meaningful to do to do that and share that. So thank you

 

[27:40]

guys, and take a long weekend and get away and think about this stuff. Because you do have to step out of your normal environment to really make a change here. It’s challenging, but it’s so worth it.

 

Steve Fretzin  [27:49]

Yeah, we need to we need to get our attention back. Right. We’ve lost attention. And we need to have a way to do that and get it back and put the phone down for a moment. You know, I was skiing this weekend with my family and I was on a chairlift. And every time I’m on the chairlift, I got 10 or 15 minutes. I don’t want to pull my phone out, because for a number of reasons, but I don’t want to drop it. But it really gave me some great time to think and it was just so crazy when you just have nothing but nature around you to just sit and think and be quiet. Anyway, we could probably that’s a whole other show

 

[28:17]

different. Let’s do another one.

 

Steve Fretzin  [28:19]

Let’s just skip we’ll just go right into another half

 

[28:22]

hour. All right, better way to spend the day. That’s it. That’s it.

 

Steve Fretzin  [28:25]

Well, listen, everybody. Thank you for spending some time with Jessica and I today again, the goal is that you’re taking some tips and tricks away some ideas that will help you be that lawyer, someone who’s confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Take care of the safety well, we’ll talk again soon.

 

Narrator  [28:44]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website fretzin.com For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes