Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Tips for Growth Mode

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jonathan Fitzgarrald discuss:

  • Collaboration between a lawyer and a business coach.
  • Why you should have a business plan for your law firm.
  • Finding the right referral partners and investors.
  • Ideas for staying top of mind and staying in touch.

Key Takeaways:

  • Relationships are proactive, not reactive.
  • If you don’t have a plan, you won’t know where you are going.
  • Be the go-to person for people outside of the things you do.
  • Listen with your eyes – people are telling you more on LinkedIn than even they realize.

“The number one challenge for most professionals is staying top of mind among their target audience for people who can refer them business.” —  Jonathan Fitzgarrald

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About Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Jonathan Fitzgarrald looks to undervalued professionals, untapping their potential to grow revenue, market visibility, and their practices. Many of the firms Jonathan advises report up to 20 percent increases in revenue within the first year. Jonathan’s proprietary approach adapts a Moneyball strategy by recognizing and coaching traditionally overlooked, highly skilled professionals in legal, financial, accounting, and professional services firms.

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Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

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Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.


[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hey everyone, listen up real quick. Before we begin the show, I’d like to present my Be That Lawyer challenge. If you’ve ever wondered how much more you could be making as an attorney, I challenge you to meet with me for 30 minutes to discuss your law firm. If I’m unable to identify ways to bring in more business for you, I’ll pay your hourly rate for our time together.

[00:00:19] Steve Fretzin: I’m just that confident. Go to Fretzin. com to accept this challenge and hope to meet you soon.

[00:00:29] Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

[00:00:51] Steve Fretzin: Well, hey everybody. Welcome to Be That Lawyer. I am Steve Fretzin. It’s so glad that you’re here today. We’ve got another great show. Not if you’re paying attention, but we are continuing to bring you two shows a week every single week to help you Be That Lawyer. Someone who’s confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker.

[00:01:07] Steve Fretzin: If you are interested in checking out some of Fretzin’s books, some of, I guess that’s me. I’m Fretzin, right John? That’s it. Talking about myself in the third person. Um, but if you want to check out the books, I’ve got four that are all on Amazon, starting with sales, free selling, leading to the, uh, the attorney’s networking handbook, the ambitious attorney.

[00:01:25] Steve Fretzin: And then finally, legal business development isn’t rocket science, which is now available on audio. You can get it on audible. So that’s exciting. We’ll see how that goes. If that goes well, I might, might do all the other books on audio. I think Pete, do you like audio books? If you had to

[00:01:39] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: choose? I do so much driving in my car from client to client that.

[00:01:44] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: At some point I get sick of music. I get sick of all kinds of other stuff. And so books are

[00:01:48] Steve Fretzin: perfect. Okay. Yeah. I I’m mostly listening to podcasts, but occasionally I’ll pop in a book. I’ve been listening to, uh, do you know Alex Hermosi? I think he’s really good. Well, he’s, he’s, he’s kind of a weird dude. He was originally in the fitness space and now he’s become like another, you know, how do you scale your business?

[00:02:06] Steve Fretzin: And he’s put out a couple of books and they’re on, he puts them for free on audio on as on his podcast. It’s pretty slick. So a shout out to Alex Hermosi. He always says, says pay it forward and I’m paying it forward, I guess a little bit here. Jonathan Fitzgerald, you are the managing partner of Equinox strategy partners.

[00:02:20] Steve Fretzin: And of course we are going to start with a quote of the show and then we’re going to get into all your background. Thanks And it is the following by Wayne Gretzky, when asked the difference between a good and a great hockey player, he said, he replied, a good player knows where the puck currently is, a great player knows where the puck, wait, a great player, I screwed that up, a great player plays the puck where it’s going to be, which is when you always find yourself in the right place at the right time, and that’s a sign, I think, of a great player, so I Sure.

[00:02:48] Steve Fretzin: What’s your take on that? Why is that your favorite quote? The practice

[00:02:51] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: of law by nature is reactive. Relationships need to be proactive if you’re going to get anything out of it. And so one of the challenges that I’m always talking to my lawyer clients about is how do you get more, how do you kind of combat this?

[00:03:09] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Conditioning of constantly being on the defense and find a way, particularly from a client development or relationship perspective to be on the offense. And it doesn’t take that much activity and energy to play where the puck is going to be. That separates the men from the boys in terms of relationship building, in my opinion.

[00:03:30] Steve Fretzin: You know, I would take it a step further too and say relationships. Yes. And then also from a branding and marketing perspective, I’m always trying to tell lawyers they need to read the news and see what’s coming up the pike in their area, because ultimately they may be able to get ahead of it on what they’re posting, what they’re speaking on.

[00:03:47] Steve Fretzin: And so I have a little different take on this, on this quote. I think they’re both the right take, but do you get where I’m going? Like one of my clients and he’s been on the show a couple of times, Jerry Madman, like got ahead of the Americans with disabilities act back in the eighties. Yeah. And started speaking and writing and everything around it.

[00:04:02] Steve Fretzin: And then when it hit, he was like the go to guy in that space and built a whole, you know, world around it. So that’s kind of how I’m seeing it. Like, what’s the future of law? And can you, can you meet it where it’s going to be, not where it is yesterday or today?

[00:04:15] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: I think we’re speaking the same language, Steve.

[00:04:17] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: And we don’t do enough about thinking where the puck is going to be. Either from a thought leadership perspective, from a relationship perspective. For example, I’ve got clients that do tons of networking. They go to tons of conferences, you know, when you show up at one of those events, someone’s going to say, Hey, Steve, how are things?

[00:04:38] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: What’s new? How’s it going? 99. 9 percent of professionals never prepare to answer that question ahead of time. So how do we answer it? Here’s the last time I had COVID. How’s the weather? Here’s what my kids are doing. And there’s nothing wrong with any of those three, but you miss an opportunity to remind someone when to think of you.

[00:04:59] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: How you add value so that when they’re in front of someone and that someone has a need that you can fulfill, they’ll immediately think of you and make that introduction. Instead, we’re talking about sickness.

[00:05:12] Steve Fretzin: Right. Yeah. What was the last time you got sick?

[00:05:19] Steve Fretzin: Jonathan, give us, give us a little background on your, your background before going into your own consultancy because you have, you have quite a legal, nice legal background.

[00:05:29] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Yeah. So I started in high tech in Silicon Valley and when the bubble burst, I got introduced to the managing partner of an IP firm that was looking to establish his first ever client development program within the firm.

[00:05:44] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: We very quickly hit it off and I realized that the experience that I had in marketing and sales on the tech side and the relationships that I had built, knowing what it took to identify issues on the customer side and then fulfill them with our company’s products, the same can be transferred to professional services.

[00:06:08] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: And so I spent 16 over 16 years in house at three different large law firms. And then in January of 2015, I sowed my entrepreneurial seeds and launched Equinox Strategy. And we focus exclusively on growth for attorneys. In whatever stage of career you’re in, how do you take your practice, your preferences, your style, your personality, and create a plan that, that will allow you to convert prospects into clients?

[00:06:44] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: It’s not that hard, but you got to be intentional about it.

[00:06:47] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. I think that the way you were talking about most lawyers don’t have an infomercial elevator pitch or some way of explaining kind of what’s relevant about what they do or how they add value. I would say the same is true that they don’t have plans about how they’re going to approach the marketplace and how they’re going to build their businesses.

[00:07:04] Steve Fretzin: In some cases, the mid market and big firm lawyers might have it. And guess what? It’s because the firm told them to put it together and gave them a form to fill out. But I don’t think it was customized the way you or I would do it. So what, is that a big part of how you work with lawyers is to help them get that plan in place and start to identify like targets and where, where they need to go from there.

[00:07:26] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: The best collaboration between the lawyer and a business coach is to have a roadmap that you’re both working off of. If you don’t have a plan, where the hell are you going? Imagine starting off. On a road trip, Steve and saying, Oh, I want, you know, I’m going to start in L. A. and I want to get to New York and I’m just going to wing it and you have absolutely no clue what roads are going to end up in New York City.

[00:07:53] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: No one would do that. No one in their right mind. Yeah, the same is true for any business professional, including attorneys. You’re right. Midsize and larger firms, those lawyers have business plans because they’ve been compelled to have them, but they still, for the most part, do a kicking and screening.

[00:08:11] Steve Fretzin: Well, then they shelve, then they shelve them, right? I mean, they go, this is okay. I get that. I need to go to this conference. I need to join this group. So you’ll love this.

[00:08:17] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Right? Yeah. You’ll absolutely love this. I have gone into a firm before and started working with some of the firms, either senior associates that are on track to be part Partner or partners that were made partner without a book of business or established partners.

[00:08:31] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: And the first thing we’ll talk about is, do you have a business plan for those that do, I will say, and I see it at which point they email their marketing in house person and say, Hey, Susie, can you send me my marketing plan? And I’m like, Oh my God. This is no bueno on all levels, right? Yeah, right, right.

[00:08:54] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: They did it because they were compelled to do it. They don’t even have a copy readily available to be looking at during the course of a month or a quarter or a year. What

[00:09:03] Steve Fretzin: the heck? Yeah, and in those plans, again, they’re made up of here are my list of clients. Here’s the conferences that I need to attend.

[00:09:14] Steve Fretzin: And they’re not, they’re not actually very tactical. We’re actionable. That’s what I found. And even if they were, they wouldn’t, they wouldn’t necessarily phone because where’s the accountability. But I think, I think they need to have a plan that actually gives them the breakdown of what they have to do each day, each week, each month and set some, some, some, you know, some timelines and numbers about what they need to do.

[00:09:36] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Most attorney plans that I’ve seen that were not originated with me. Are nothing but narratives about people that they know in their network and how they met then and what their kids and spouses names are and all of that. That gets us nowhere. Our plan is 2 or 3 pages and it focuses on the names of specific individuals.

[00:09:58] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Who do you currently represent by name that if you spend some more time with them, you could expand the relationship. Maybe not in what you do, but in what a colleague does. Who are the prospects that you should be representing who you know by name, either the company or the individual, that if you were able to get a meeting with them, you might be able to persuade them to use you over who they’re currently using.

[00:10:20] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Who are the referral sources? I like to call them investors. Referral sources to me sounds very one directional. There are tons of professionals in the business community with their hands out, more than happy to take a referral from you, Steve. Those aren’t the individuals I’m looking to do business with.

[00:10:37] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: I want someone who’s in growth mode, who I can sit down with and say, Hey, Steve, you’re in growth mode for 2024, right? Yes, so am I. How about every time one of my clients needs what you do, you’re going to be first on my referral list. And I want you to do the same for me, Steve. That is not a referral source.

[00:10:55] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: That is an investor. I will invest in you. If you will invest in me, and now we’ve got a relationship moving forward and we can hold each other quasi accountable for, um, referring each

[00:11:07] Steve Fretzin: other business. And it is, and I love that idea and I call them strategic partners, but I like investors just as well. And is that language, the language that lawyers are going to be comfortable using, or do you have a backup language that makes it a little softer because they don’t want to, you know, necessarily scare either scare someone off, or maybe they’re just scared of getting those particular words out.

[00:11:28] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: These are number one. I’m not afraid. Yes. The vernacular is not familiar to lawyers. Hopefully it’s unique enough that it catches their attention and they actually pay attention. If I use all of the same old retread words that have been used since the seventies, I’m not going to catch anyone’s attention.

[00:11:49] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: They’re going to be like, dah, dah. We’ve heard this all before. On the other hand, if I say Steve. Who are your top six investors? Immediately. The attorney thinks, are we talking about financial planners here?

[00:12:00] Steve Fretzin: Oh, that’s totally.

[00:12:02] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Yeah. It allows me the space to say, here’s what an investor is, Steve, and why you need five or six of them in your network.

[00:12:12] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Now I scratched the curiosity of whoever I’m talking to, and because it’s novel and unique, they’re listening to my

[00:12:21] Steve Fretzin: concept. I love that. I love that. I guess I was more referring to not, not the word investor, but the idea that I’m going to help you. You’re going to help me. We’re invested in each other and getting that language out so someone can say, get that relationship on track.

[00:12:40] Steve Fretzin: Without ever, without maybe feeling like it’s, you know, either too salesy or too just uncomfortable. I mean, again, if you know someone for 10 years and you want to make that arrangement and you can tell them that they’re, you know, you know, dickhead or whatever, like, you know, you have that relationship, then you’re probably fine, but I’m, I guess I’m suggesting if it’s something on the newer side.

[00:12:59] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Here’s my thought on it. Life’s too short to beat around the bush. Okay. I’m in growth mode. I’m interested in finding other professionals, consultants, accountants, complimentary service providers, attorneys that don’t do what I do. Maybe they’re on the, the plaintiff side and I’m on the defense side, whatever.

[00:13:16] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: I want to find those other professionals that are also in growth mode and serious about it. Don’t waste my time beating around the bush. Don’t waste my time with pleasantries. We’re either in this to add value. Or I’ll put you on my holiday card and you’ll get an electric holiday card from me every December.

[00:13:36] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: That’s it.

[00:13:37] Steve Fretzin: Don’t waste my time. And is that conversation, like, I just met, I’m a lawyer, I just met a lawyer for coffee, we talked for an hour. Am I having that conversation then or am I having that on the third meeting?

[00:13:48] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Yeah, you’re having that on the third meeting. The first couple meetings… It’s a look see period where you’re trying to determine, does this person have a similar mindset?

[00:13:58] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Is this person in growth mode? Do I like them from a chemistry perspective? Yep. Okay. Right. It’s got to start there. Otherwise it comes off as so creepy and salesy, like you said. Yeah. So what we need to do is, as we’re identifying new professionals to put into our network, to fold into our network, we’ve got to have multiple interactions with them.

[00:14:19] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: And they’ve got to graduate over time to be eligible to be an

[00:14:23] Steve Fretzin: investor. Okay. Now, I like that. I like that. You know, something that I do too, is I, I try to give some, someone something small to do for me. I’m going to connect them with a lawyer, friend of a client of mine, or friend of mine that I think would be good networking for them.

[00:14:38] Steve Fretzin: And they may say, well, what can I help you with? And I’ll give them something small, um, just to see if they can follow through just to see if they have the chops. You know what I mean? To execute on something that they committed to. And I, and I do that because I feel like it’s important to understand that someone may want to help you, but do they also have the, the Seinfeld, I got the Seinfeld business behind me.

[00:14:59] Steve Fretzin: You know, they can take the reservation, but can they keep the reservation? That’s the most important part. Do you, would you recommend something like that? Or do you like kind of that angle as

[00:15:07] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: well? I like the angle a lot. And what I normally find is there are a lot of professionals out there That say all kinds of stuff and don’t deliver.

[00:15:17] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: I’ve got a client. I’ve got a client who probably has between 10 and 12 million of business a year. Okay. He is a master networker. He’s constantly out connecting with current relationships and adding new ones by category to his network. If the first interaction is meeting you at an industry event. My client already has the second interaction teed up and ready to go.

[00:15:46] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: And that’s inviting the person to a monthly dinner that he hosts. At a really swanky club. Everybody wants to go there. He partners with another complimentary service provider. They both invite five people. So they’ve got a dinner of 12 every month. And he has a system set up to where if the first interaction at that industry event goes well, he’s got the next interaction plan.

[00:16:11] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Yeah. And the first one is kind of how he perceives you with the masses. The second interaction is. There are 11 other people there. How do you interact with those 11 other service professionals? And each and every time he’s able to observe, what’s this person like? Are they, do they keep their commitments?

[00:16:30] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Are they the type of professional? Do they have the sophistication? Do they follow through with their commitments that I want as part of my plan? And by the way, when I mentioned investor, I first said, I will invest in them if they’ll invest in me. That sounds a little self promoting. I always want to be the first one.

[00:16:50] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: To add value. I want, I want to be the first one to do you a solid. And then human nature, your subliminal Steve, will drive you nuts until you’re able to return the favor, and I love that.

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[00:18:53] Steve Fretzin: Unless someone’s a taker, in which case we need to find that out early, because if we do, we can still help them and then move them to the, you know, to the side, you know, because unfortunately they’re not going to, you know, be in a position to be an investor.

[00:19:07] Steve Fretzin: But out of everything I’ve heard, even on the show in the last, you know, let’s just say six months, I love what you absolutely said about your, about your friend Has something queued up. I think that’s so great to have. And I just want everyone to take note of that. Like think about a networking group that you belong to or that you run.

[00:19:26] Steve Fretzin: Think about an interview that you want to conduct or that you can conduct a podcast. It could be a written interview, just something that, you know, will, will give you that next step with somebody queued up. I love that Jonathan. That’s fantastic.

[00:19:40] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: The number one challenge, Steve, for most professionals. Is staying top of mind among their target audience for people that can refer them business right?

[00:19:49] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: We’re not going to teach them anything about practicing law. That’s not my business. My business is you’ve identified someone that may be able to hire or refer you work. How do you stay in front of that person 6 to 8 times during the course of the year? Varying up your outreach so they don’t feel like you’re targeting them.

[00:20:08] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: But essentially building relationship to figure out is this person going to hunt for me and you’ve got to have different interactions planned ahead of time if you’re going to move them through those various steps. We don’t have 20 years to invest on someone, excuse me, to invest on someone only to find out they’re not going to do anything for us or there’s no value we can provide them.

[00:20:34] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: I’m looking for symbiotic relationships. Anything short of that, you get my

[00:20:39] Steve Fretzin: holiday card. Okay. So, so I want to play, I want to play a game. We sometimes play in the show. We haven’t played in a long time, but you’re, you’re the right guy for the job. Okay. And the game is a back and forth of filling a list that lawyers listening right now could be literally just stopping their car, pulling themselves over and taking some notes or replaying this again to get out of it.

[00:20:59] Steve Fretzin: What I’m going to, about to say, which is they don’t understand that client loyalty. And strategic partner investor, as you say, and loyalty comes from how we stay top of mind and how we keep in touch. So I want you to give a new idea that they haven’t heard about how you recommend your clients stay in touch or how you actually stay in touch.

[00:21:22] Steve Fretzin: I’m going to give one, you’re going to give one, and we’re going to see if we can get a list of five data, these down in the next five minutes. Hey, do you want me to go first? Do you want to, well, you already gave one first. I’ll go first. Okay. So I, well, this is going to come off of the, the interaction that your friends that like have something queued up.

[00:21:40] Steve Fretzin: I was going to say something similar, which is, you know, have, have a networking group that, you know, you can invite people to, because then it’s easier than saying, Hey, here’s a lead for you, or here’s a good connection for you. I’m going to bring you into the full, like I run a provisors group here in Chicago.

[00:21:58] Steve Fretzin: Okay. You know, provisors

[00:22:00] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: familiar. Absolutely. I’ve been a member since 2005.

[00:22:03] Steve Fretzin: Well, there you go. So you’re, you’re long, much longer than me. And I know that this is the best group of people in the area that I’m in. And if I meet someone and I think that they’re solid to say, Hey, I want you to come and meet some of the most amazing networkers and peep that I hang out with.

[00:22:18] Steve Fretzin: Instead of making one introduction, I’ve got that set up to go. So like including people in the networking groups and the, and the, the things that you’re interacting with, that’s a great way to stay top of mind and to give them a next step other than just giving them a lead or something you may not have in the moment.

[00:22:34] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: My idea is don’t close your laptop for the day, for the night until you’ve made at least one introduction that day. Ooh,

[00:22:41] Steve Fretzin: okay. So you’ve got to, you’ve got to have that maybe at the end of the day, like as a little note in your, in your calendar, like make that one intro just so you don’t again, or just until it becomes a habit, I guess.

[00:22:53] Steve Fretzin: I love that. Another one is, try to be the go to person, and this helps if you have, you have to have a network for this, but be the go to person for people outside of the things you do. So when someone needs a lawyer, I know they, this probably happens for you too, they call me, they say, look, I’ve got this situation, it’s in Tennessee, it’s a, it’s an employment situation, who do you know?

[00:23:14] Steve Fretzin: And I don’t happen to know the employment Tennessee person, but I can within maybe 20 minutes find one or two great lawyers through my network. So I just want everybody coming to me for the, I need a CRM, I need a SEO guy, I need whatever it might be. I want to be the first call that people make and I think lawyers should look at it the same way that it isn’t just about the matter that it’s actually about.

[00:23:39] Steve Fretzin: All the network and all the value can add around, uh, that to that client or to your partners. My

[00:23:45] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: idea is if you want to know how to make a difference in someone else’s life. Or practice, ask them. So often we sit in our office and we’re like, okay, Steve’s done me a solid. How can I pay him back? Should I send him a referral?

[00:24:01] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Maybe Steve doesn’t want more work. So the best thing you can do with your contacts when you’re sitting down, having adult conversations with them, with your investors is to say, Steve, my hope is that we’re referring each other business. Assuming that you send me something and I’m not able to return the favor right away, what else could be a value to you?

[00:24:22] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: My firm has Dodger dugout tickets. Are you interested in the Dodgers? Do you have kids about ready to go to private school? I’ve got a couple contacts in my network that might be able to get you a foot in the door. Like, do you want to take your spouse on a fancy Friday night date to a local restaurant that’s brand new or to a show that’s in town?

[00:24:44] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: I can get you a couple tickets to that. When in doubt, ask the other person. In addition to referring you business, how else may I be able to add


[00:24:54] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. I love that. I love that. Another one that I’d say is ask enough questions to your point to know what they’re into and send them articles, send them podcasts, send them things like you hadn’t heard of Alex Hermosi.

[00:25:07] Steve Fretzin: You know, I’m going to send you, you know, his information because I think you might really get. A lot of enjoyment and value out of the things that he talks about. I mean, just looking at how we brand ourselves or looking at how we scale or looking at how we come up with, um, an offer that people won’t say no to.

[00:25:25] Steve Fretzin: This guy’s the sort of the, the, you know, been writing about it for a while. So like, I just, my dad sends my, my son is a crazy, crazy fisherman. That’s I talk about on the show all the time, but he’s, he’s always fishing. And, uh, in fact, he’s been bugging me on text today. Like where are we going fishing on Saturday?

[00:25:39] Steve Fretzin: And, um, my dad, you know, they’re not too well connected in some ways, but my dad always sends him information about who just caught the largest trout in Illinois, who just, you know, this, that, and the other. And he’s always trying to connect with my son, asking him questions about fishing. So I would say, you know, if, when you know what someone’s, you know, jam is or what they’re really into continue to, to build that personal and business relationship by sending them stuff.

[00:26:05] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: My idea is the use of LinkedIn, listening with your eyes, 2023, and it will not stop moving forward, people telegraph, all kinds of stuff about them, about their business, about things of interest to them over LinkedIn, that if you really want to get to know your prospects and your investors, follow them on LinkedIn, see what they tell the world, then.

[00:26:35] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: When you finally get an introduction to the person, instead of talking about COVID, sickness, weather, kids, you can say, Hey Steve. I noticed that your company just expanded into Nashville last month. How’s that going? Imagine the impression you leave them. Number one, you’re up to date of the world, may not even know their company expanded into Nashville.

[00:26:56] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Imagine the impression you leave with them then. But listen with your eyes on LinkedIn, even if you never post anything, use LinkedIn as a way to get some really good due diligence on the people that impact or practice the most or could.

[00:27:14] Steve Fretzin: Wow. All right. We’re building a list here. Everybody. I hope you guys are paying attention.

[00:27:17] Steve Fretzin: This is like gold. We just struck gold and we’re, we’re not leaving the mind. We’re, we’re hanging out in the mind. One of the things that I, I catch my clients not doing, and I tell them they need to get out there and do it. And this is more, maybe more for clients than for investors. Although I’ll tell you what the best investors are clients, and you might agree with that.

[00:27:36] Steve Fretzin: And in many cases, the clients that love you want to send you stuff because they know it’s going to make them look good. But what I was going to say is, Are you spending time with them in their office, in their warehouse, in their distribution center? And I’ll tell you, the greatest thing in the world is, is when you do that, you will find…

[00:27:53] Steve Fretzin: Risk, you will find legal, you’ll find troubles, you’ll find problems that you can then help them solve, even if it isn’t legal problems, it might be that they’re, they need to, you know, recycle things that are being recycled and you’ve got a great recycling company, you’re putting two companies together now to work together, whatever it might be, but you need to get in front of your clients and spend time with them and the lawyers that do that, if they go and they visit 10 clients, Eight out of eight out of 10 times, they’re coming back with more work.

[00:28:22] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: So you think that would fuel them to do more of that? You would think for some reason it doesn’t, but you’re absolutely right. We constantly encourage our clients to go where the prospect is, where the client is. Meet the other members of the C suite. Walk the grounds of their distribution center. Get a sense for who they are.

[00:28:44] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: How many times have we gotten a message from somebody that we know quasi well, and the person essentially says, Hey, Steve, I’m going to be in LA at the end of October. Would love to coordinate my trip with going to lunch and seeing your facility or seeing your offices. People almost say, almost never say no to that.

[00:29:03] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Everyone’s like, oh yeah, that’d be great. We would love to see you. And now all of a sudden, you’re face to face, you’re building the relationship, you’re spending the time, you’re essentially demonstrating that you’re interested in that person and in that company versus sending them an email saying, hey Steve, I should be doing your legal work.

[00:29:23] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Why aren’t you sending me any files?

[00:29:26] Steve Fretzin: You know, we’re not, I’m not really keeping track of how many we just did. If I had a ballpark and I’d say it was six days, but you know, again, for the lawyers listening, I mean, this is, this is the stuff that you may, it may have like come across your brain at some point, one of more of these, but are you actually doing them?

[00:29:42] Steve Fretzin: And then do you have a way Jonathan and kind of wrapping up before we get to our game changing podcast of how they can keep track of all of these connections and what they’ve done for them and what they need to do for them. And do you have a system for how to do that?

[00:29:57] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Yeah, there’s lots of, the big firms have CRMs, right, that have more functionality and features than an attorney would ever use or know how to use.

[00:30:07] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Midsize to smaller firms either don’t want to mess with it or can’t afford those solutions. I think an Excel spreadsheet, where you put 15 of your best clients, Prospects and investors down one column, and you put January, February is the second column. March, April is the third column. May, June is the fourth column.

[00:30:30] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: And you take a look at these 15 people and the year upcoming, and you say, okay, what am I going to do for each of the 15 during the month of January and February? Am I going to see him at a conference? Am I going to make a call? Schedule it out a little bit. We call it our contact scheduler. Be intentional about your interactions with the Steve’s of the world.

[00:30:54] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: And it doesn’t mean that every box has to be filled out for everybody, but just being a little more proactive about where the fuck is going to be. We’ll have unbelievable results for you because 99 percent of your competition is not doing any

[00:31:09] Steve Fretzin: of that. And by the way, everybody, uh, hopefully you’re paying attention.

[00:31:13] Steve Fretzin: We just came full circle. Uh, back to Wayne Gretzky and be where the bucks could have been going. We have a theme name, Jonathan. So amazing. I’m wrapping up with your game changing podcast, the Armstrong and Getty podcast. Talk to us about that.

[00:31:27] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Yeah. Armstrong and Getty have a radio program out of, I think it’s the Sacramento, California area every day, Monday through Friday.

[00:31:35] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Four hours of programming a day. And essentially what they try to do is they try to merge, uh, the politics of the day, be as neutral as possible, just on the face of politics, what’s going on with pop culture and they have different perspectives on every topic. It’s oftentimes insight that I don’t hear.

[00:31:58] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: On any other podcast or any other news outlet. And so as I’m driving to clients, as I’m getting ready in the morning and I’m trying to get my mind focused on the day, it’s a great way to get the wheels moving. And, uh, I love it. Yeah.

[00:32:14] Steve Fretzin: Well, I’m definitely going to check that out. I do enjoy listening to, uh, shows that are topical.

[00:32:19] Steve Fretzin: I have some politics in there, especially if they keep it even as even as possible, just kind of reporting the news more than having an angle. So that’s great. I’ll check, definitely check that out as we wrap up. Want to thank our sponsors, of course, get visible, helping all. Of the lawyers out there on the digital side, getting their marketing to the next level a law Maddox, which is a phenomenal, you know, has a phenomenal CRM tool and ways of keeping up and emailing people on a regular basis.

[00:32:44] Steve Fretzin: And of course, get staffed up helping you delegate your way to freedom with my friend, Brett Tremblay. So check that out. Jonathan, if people wanna get in touch with you, they want to hear more about your, about, uh, Equinox strategy partners and what you do for lawyers, what’s the best way for them to reach you?

[00:32:59] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Yeah, you could reach us on our website, equinox We’re also all over LinkedIn. Our Equinox strategy, LinkedIn profile is pretty active. We love to post videos there for that interactive content. I’m also fairly active on LinkedIn, as are some of my colleagues in the, in the consulting business, and so.

[00:33:20] Jonathan Fitzgarrald: You can also Google my name and all kinds of stuff comes up.

[00:33:25] Steve Fretzin: Really now, you know, of course. No. Okay. I was going to say now I’m intrigued. You know, I’m beyond where I was beforehand. Well, listen, uh, Jonathan, uh, Fitz, uh, Gerald, uh, Equinox strategy partners. Thank you so much for being on the show, sharing your wisdom.

[00:33:37] Steve Fretzin: This was one of the more fun shows because I love the speed round of you and I just going back and forth trying to get great ideas into the hands of the lawyers that are listening. The people that listened to this show. Um, are, you know, not only smart, but they’re ambitious, interested, coachable, like this is the right audience for you and I, my friend.

[00:33:55] Steve Fretzin: Thank you, Steve. Appreciate it. And thank you everybody for spending time with Jonathan and I again today, helping you to Be That Lawyer. Someone who’s confident, organized, and a skilled brain maker. Take care everybody. Be safe. Be well. We will talk again very soon.

[00:34:11] Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, Fretzin. com, for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business. Development and marketing trends for more information and important links about today’s episode check out today’s show notes