Julie Yusim: Building Your Law Practice by Playing the Networking Long Game

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Julie Yusim discuss:

  • Adding a little positive self-talk to your routine.
  • Getting value for your networking time.
  • Going deep and playing the networking long game.
  • Evaluating your wide network to see where you should go deeper.
  • Best tips and tactics for effective networking.

Key Takeaways:

  • Networking is about giving, more than anything, especially at the beginning, even if you don’t see how it is going to come back to you.
  • Have a couple of things that you can give in your back pocket, even if you are new to networking.
  • Most networking relationships evolve and mature over time. Get to know those in your smaller circle best, but don’t ignore others in your network.
  • Following up is where the networking really starts. Make notes about the person and conversation you had, then make sure you follow up specifically, not in a blast email selling your services.

“The good news is networking works. The less-than-good news is networking is work. It’s not a horrible amount of work, it’s not taxing, it’s not expensive, but there is a process that if you want to be successful at it, you need to follow.” —  Julie Yusim

Find out more about the Mastering the Legal Clock and Thriving Event at: https://fretzin.com/events

Thank you to our Sponsors!

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Episode References: 

About Julie Yusim: Julie Yusim has spent the majority of her career coaching small business owners. She served as Executive Director of a Chicago-area Chamber of Commerce for 17 years, where she taught business owners to how maximize their marketing and networking efforts. As the Director of Marketing for a family-owned chain of auto repair shops, Julie built the company’s brand awareness through extensive networking and marketing. Before consulting full-time, Julie studied and mastered the marketing and compliance systems of a leading U.S. insurance company in order to build the personal brands for successful agent/owners. Julie is an enthusiast of grass-roots marketing techniques and is well-known in Chicago-area business circles as an expert “connector” of people and resources. Julie sits on the Board of Directors for Hunger Resource Network and is an Ambassador for the Northbrook Chamber of Commerce and Industry.

Connect with Julie Yusim: 

Website: https://www.ideamaxmktg.com/

Email: julie@ideamaxmktg.com

Phone: 847-975-5257

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-yusim-4aa23713a/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/julie.yusim/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61552727541602

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/networkinggoddess

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.


[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hey, everybody, before we get to the show, I just want to share another amazing event we’ve got coming up called Mastering the Legal Clock and Thriving. And that’s happening on the 29th of February from noon to one central time. It’s me and my friend, Sarah Reiff-Hekking, and we are going to help you reclaim control of your legal practice in one hour.

[00:00:18] Steve Fretzin: So if you don’t have time to come and join us, maybe you need to come and join us. I enjoy the show. Everybody.

[00:00:28] Narrator: You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

[00:00:51] Steve Fretzin: Well, Hey everybody. Welcome to be that lawyer. I am, as you know, Steve Fretzin, the host. And I’m just so pleased that you’re here. I’m pleased that I’m with you. We’re going to have some fun today. No matter if you want fun or don’t want fun, it’s going to happen. It’s coming your way. Uh, and I know this because my guest today is Julie.

[00:01:05] Steve Fretzin: How you doing, Julie? I’m awesome. How are you? Good, good. And when Julie and I get together, you guys watch out. We know what, we know how to have a good time. And, uh, even if we’re talking about some serious stuff about building your law practice, it’s still, we can make it fun and entertaining and enjoyable.

[00:01:19] Steve Fretzin: That doesn’t hurt. I don’t think, uh, if you’re hearing about Fretzin for the first time, or you want to know more about us. We are focused on helping you do one of two things, either become the best Rainmaker that you know, Or if you’re already a solid rainmaker to make you even better. And so check out our website at Fretzin.

[00:01:36] Steve Fretzin: com to learn more about what we’re doing here to help you be that lawyer Someone who’s confident organized and skilled rainmaker. All right, we are going to get started with the quote of the show Now this is taking me back to Is it the 90s with uh, stuart smalley that alan franken character? I mean, were you

[00:01:55] Julie Yusmin: in junior high

[00:01:55] Steve Fretzin: then?

[00:01:56] Steve Fretzin: Or I know I was probably not even born then in the 90s because I’m so young. Oh, yeah. No, I’m not. I’m an old man. So I was back in the, you know, the Eddie Murphy days were kind of the highlight of, you know, my time with Saturday Night Live. But this is like the next generation. I think this is the 90s with like Dana Carvey and Al Franken and like that group.

[00:02:14] Steve Fretzin: But here’s the quote of the show. Everybody, you’re good enough. You’re smart enough. And God done it. People like you. And that’s a Stuart Smalley, a character played on, um, Sarah Live with Biel Franken who became state senator, correct? Okay. Correct. And then we won’t talk about what happened to him, but he’s doing great.

[00:02:32] Steve Fretzin: Okay. So, uh, talk about that. First of all, welcome to the show, Julie. And then also talk a little bit about why that quote, that’s a, an interesting choice of all the options you had. I

[00:02:42] Julie Yusmin: know. And I, I think that it’s really important that people get in the zone. When they’re going to be networking, and I think something that keeps people from really getting in the zone is, you know, feeling insecure and maybe intimidated by the group.

[00:02:59] Julie Yusmin: They’re about to enter. So, I think that it’s really important that people take a minute. It could be in the car before you walk out or on the way there or. When you take a big, deep breath before you walk in some version of this, I think really helped you get in the mindset. So, yeah, you know, it was funny with Stuart’s Molly, but actually I think it’s

[00:03:24] Steve Fretzin: really relevant.

[00:03:26] Steve Fretzin: Well, it’s, it’s something that goes back well past the nineties where a positive self talk, which is, I think it was making fun of positive self talk, but I do believe there’s a lot of. People that could use a little, a little ego boost and a little confidence booster and liking yourself and believing in yourself and how you’re going to then present that best base, you know, out in a networking event at your firm, wherever you are, that all plays a role in how you develop business.

[00:03:55] Steve Fretzin: Exactly.

[00:03:55] Julie Yusmin: Having that self confidence. And just giving yourself a little boost, you know, especially if you’re going to have to present your elevator pitch or you’re going into a networking event that you’ve not been to before, you know, just remind yourself how great you are and that, you know, you can knock this one out of the park.

[00:04:15] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Now, when I started networking going back around 20 years ago, which is definitely aging me, uh, you and I met and we hit it off and we’ve just sort of like. Like stayed in touch and stayed friends over the time, but give a little background because you’re like a professional, like not only a professional networker, but in running networking groups.

[00:04:39] Julie Yusmin: So when you and I met, I was in my first term of running the will met Kenilworth chamber of commerce. And I just, you know, very much remember the day when you guys became part of, of my life and just enhanced it so much, but I had always been a real proponent of networking. And I felt that, you know, it was really 1 of my most serious duties during the time I was running the chamber to teach my members and encourage them to learn as much as they could about how much it would enhance.

[00:05:13] Julie Yusmin: They’re marketing their branding and their overall profitability. Um, so I had many, many years to practice that. And, of course, then I did my own networking, because in between my gigs at the chamber, I worked for a family owned chain of auto repair shop. And at that point, I was the director of marketing, so I was going out and doing just literally a ton of networking myself.

[00:05:38] Julie Yusmin: So I was testing my own theories and testing things that I had learned about and really realizing, you know, doggone it. This really works and, um, I want to evangelize, you know, about networking and also understanding how deeply integrated it is with marketing. And people who learn how to use it can really increase their success.

[00:06:04] Julie Yusmin: So now, of course, I’m doing my own consulting and, you know, I, I feel like there are a lot of people that, you know, avoid networking that it’s mostly because they don’t understand it and how much it could do for them. So I want to, I want to help people get comfortable with it, learn best practices and make it work for them.

[00:06:26] Steve Fretzin: And not only make money, but also, you know, one of the, the lifelines of being in business is relationships and people. And so if you’re not, even if it’s just networking with your clients or networking within your, you know, church or temple or neighborhood or whatever, it all, it all can add up. And Julie, you, some, you are, uh, idea max networking and marketing solutions.

[00:06:48] Steve Fretzin: And we know a little bit about your background now. And, Was there some form of like a be that tipping point for you in your career, um, either getting into networking or maybe moving into your new business? What, what was kind of like your, what’s your something that, that happened to you that made that made you realize that, you know, teaching people might be the way to go.

[00:07:06] Julie Yusmin: Well, you know, I was always doing it very organically because I enjoy it and I actually. Get a little, you know, thrill when I connect to people and it’s a really great connection and, you know, it’s like, oh, success. I really it helped someone. So, um, I did that a lot, just. Organically myself with my own networking, and I guess, uh, I maybe developed a little bit of a.

[00:07:31] Julie Yusmin: Of a reputation as. As a good connector as a good networker and so when I was doing my own networking, people were asking me for pointers and what groups would be good for them. And, you know, would I take a look at their marketing? And so I thought, you know what? I think maybe I can make a business out of this.

[00:07:50] Julie Yusmin: And so. I, you know, I dipped my toe in and then I jumped in and it’s, it’s really great. Um, to see, to, to coach somebody and see them get better at it, maybe become an expert at it and then implement it in their business or their profession. It’s, it’s really exciting. Yeah.

[00:08:14] Steve Fretzin: And there’s, um, something I’ve been saying for the last year and I brought it up on the show a couple of times, but.

[00:08:19] Steve Fretzin: You know, there’s always people that say, do what you love, do what you love to do. And I say, do what you love to do for others. So it’s one thing for me to enjoy, for example, business development, but there’s even more pleasure and joy teaching people to be excellent at that. And then I get to do it, but I also get to teach.

[00:08:35] Steve Fretzin: And watch them develop and grow. And I think that’s what you’re, what you’re alluding to there, but networking, you know, it’s not taught in law school, uh, really much. It’s not really taught at the law firm level. I remember when I interviewed a ton of managing partners before, you know, I even thought about doing a podcast and I went on and just did some interviews with some managing partners.

[00:08:54] Steve Fretzin: And I said, what advice would you give to a young intern? Well, you got to get out there. You got to get out there, just get out there. Okay. Yes, there needs to be an and so where do you see people struggling most as it relates to being successful and getting value for their time networking? 100%.

[00:09:10] Julie Yusmin: When I start to see it going south is.

[00:09:15] Julie Yusmin: A, when people haven’t spent any time sort of learning some best practices, because I, I like to joke that the good news is networking work. The little bit less than good news is networking is work. It’s not a horrible amount of work. It’s not taxing. It’s not really even expensive, but, you know, you have, there’s a process that if you want to be successful at it, you need to follow.

[00:09:38] Julie Yusmin: Right? One of the things I think people, attorneys, everyone needs to understand is that the beginning, especially the beginning, you need to be a really good listener and you need to understand that it’s about giving. It’s about giving more than anything at the beginning and I think that’s where people maybe are a little bit.

[00:10:01] Julie Yusmin: Surprise because they think they’re gonna go out there. They got a, you know, handful of business cards or they have their digital business card or whatever. They’re going to go to a networking and they’re going to work the room and they’re going to talk to everybody they know. And they’re going to, you know, make sure they give out their business card and they haven’t had 1 like genuine interaction the whole time and then nothing happens.

[00:10:22] Julie Yusmin: Okay, they go to the next one. They do the same thing. Nothing happens. Well. Bye. Bye. That’s because, you know, you haven’t been doing the listening and the giving. So I think that’s number one to go in it with that mindset. And I know from experience, and you know this too, cause you’re one of the best networkers I’ve ever known giving work, giving, you know, I have this thing called the karma bank where you, you have to give, even when you don’t see how it’s going to come back to you.

[00:10:52] Julie Yusmin: Every time you do that, it’s a deposit in the karma bank. And in the end, it all comes together to help you. So, listening, be a good listener. You got 2 ears and 1 mouth, like, you know, your grandma used to tell you for, for a good reason, listening and giving, most important.

[00:11:09] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, and I think a concern that people have that are getting started with networking is that all sounds great, but I don’t know that I’m new to the area, or I’m new to starting my own firm, or I just, you know, I’m just now in the process of building my network.

[00:11:23] Steve Fretzin: I don’t have anything to give, and I think it’s a misnomer that you don’t have anything to give. You just, you maybe need a list of a couple things. That you have in your back pocket that make it easier for you to give when you don’t have a big network. Do you have one or two suggestions of what would count for someone that would like to give, but maybe just can’t, you know, someone needs to meet a business attorney and you don’t know a business attorney.

[00:11:47] Steve Fretzin: So you can’t give that what would be a substitute that would still count as giving. Well, I,

[00:11:52] Julie Yusmin: that’s so interesting because I’ve been thinking about this a lot the last couple of days, and I’ve been thinking about giving referrals and how when you give a good referral, it makes you look good too. Right? So that’s 1 form of giving.

[00:12:08] Julie Yusmin: But I, I presume most of your audience is on LinkedIn and, you know, is fairly comfortable using it. You know, let’s say you don’t know a business attorney, but you could give a shout out. To this person that you met and say, hey, I met Steve. He is just a genius. Teaching attorneys how to become rainmakers and he’s really looking to connect with some solid business attorneys.

[00:12:34] Julie Yusmin: You know, let me know if you have any recommendations of people I can connect him with. So he’s giving you a shout out and he’s opened it up to his network. And so, you know, that’s a way of doing it without necessarily introducing you to a business attorney. Yeah.

[00:12:48] Steve Fretzin: And it sounds like it might be more about the effort of giving than the actual results that occur because you’re putting yourself out there for someone else.

[00:12:56] Steve Fretzin: You’re demonstrating your ability and interest in helping advance their interests. Yeah. 100%. Awesome. Awesome. You know, the other thing is like, and so let’s say, you know, you’re meeting someone at one network event, but you belong to another, maybe, you know, say, Hey, why don’t you come with me? Let me introduce you to, you know, 10 or 20, 30 more people over here.

[00:13:16] Steve Fretzin: And then that person ends up getting value, business, whatever from that, like that counts, right? That’s amazing. Yeah. Just build a social relationship with them. It’s start. I’ll tell you something funny, Julie, when I was at the Northbrook chamber, uh, years ago, when I first started networking. And I didn’t know everything I know now.

[00:13:33] Steve Fretzin: I mean, I really knew very little. And, um, what I, what I started doing was buying from people. So like somebody would say, you know, Hey, we’re doing, you know, we’re this auto care company. All right, let me get some tires from you or insurance. Or I just thought of like all the things I, myself and my family needed.

[00:13:49] Steve Fretzin: Um, and you know, it costs me pretty petty to do it that way. So I’m not saying that that’s the way to go. I’m just saying it was, it was funny. Like I knew I had to give, and that was my result is let’s just spend money. And, you know, buy tchotchkes from the tchotchke salesman, buy insurance from the insurance guy, whatever.

[00:14:03] Julie Yusmin: Proving, once again, what a genius you are, because, yeah, that’s perfect. Exactly perfect. I was a broke genius. If you need those things anyway, yeah, you know, yes, that is this, that is giving also and you’re getting.

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[00:16:12] Steve Fretzin: The other thing is I think people need to realize there’s two ways to develop your network. There’s deep and wide. And so you start with wide, meaning meet a lot of people, help a lot of people demonstrate that you can follow through and, and make friends and, but also add value.

[00:16:29] Steve Fretzin: And then once you’ve developed that wide network of a lot of people that like you and trust you, and then, you know, while you’re doing it, but even after you do that, you should then go deep deep. What do you, what do you add, add some color to that?

[00:16:39] Julie Yusmin: Yes, that’s a very good point. Going deep is when you. You think a little bit, uh, you know, a little bit.

[00:16:49] Julie Yusmin: Broader in terms of the people that, you know, that you consider to be strategic partners for yourself. So, either people that can really refer you. People that you can really refer and so drilling deep down, I think, into those relationships. Is that’s how you start to go deep another thing about going deep is you have to stay in touch with people.

[00:17:12] Julie Yusmin: I like to remind people that networking can be more of a long game than a short game and you have to go out. Into the world, remembering that once in a while, and it’s usually a karma bank payoff, you know, you, you’re at something and someone needs exactly what you sell. And, oh, my gosh, I got this bonus.

[00:17:31] Julie Yusmin: Right? But most of the time, it’s not the case. It develops over a long time. So, you know, you want to stay in touch with people. Uh, so I think, you know, looking at people and getting to know people better that, you know. That you feel are in your little bit smaller circle, so obviously, if you’re going wide by attending a lot of networking events, but you haven’t necessarily made time to get to know people.

[00:17:57] Julie Yusmin: Better by having a coffee or something like that. That’s another very important way to go deep is. Make time to get to know people better like we do and

[00:18:07] Steve Fretzin: providers. Well, right. And so let’s say that, that I’m going wide where I’m meeting a lot of different people, but not, they’re not, they all might be in a position to help me, but maybe not equally.

[00:18:17] Steve Fretzin: So, for example, if I’m talking to a legal recruiter, like my friend Jennifer Gilman, for example, She’s working with attorneys that either need to build a book or they have the book to move, to move laterally, or they need to build a book. Well, she’s not going to help them build the book, I am. So she’ll refer them to me, I meet with them, help them build the book, then give them back to her.

[00:18:36] Steve Fretzin: Right? Right. Just as an example of, of the way that works. So she’s going to come across people for me more often than The local, you know, Avon rep or the local, you know, shoe store guy or whatever it might be. So I think while we want to build a network where we have, we know a lot of people and we’re able to then move the pieces around on the board effectively.

[00:18:57] Steve Fretzin: I think there’s also, you know, targeting direct targeting that also makes sense. Right. And I

[00:19:02] Julie Yusmin: think that sometimes you can think about it as. When you’re going wide that, um, more of your branding and marketing opportunity, getting people to know, like, and trust you, but then, um, the next level then is when you’re getting to know people better that you have, uh, you know, more potential for strategic partnership.

[00:19:25] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And that’s really critical. So what, and how do people, what’s the best way for people to select where they go? Like, all right, I’ve got, you know, the, the chamber of commerce, I’ve got BNI, I’ve got provisors, I’ve got the bar association, I’ve got all these, you know, different directions that I can get, that I can go in.

[00:19:44] Steve Fretzin: And they’re not all created equal for that individual. So, Right.

[00:19:48] Julie Yusmin: That’s okay. So that’s a really good point. What, uh, usually when, or not usually, but a lot of the time when someone is not having success, it’s because they haven’t really defined their target market. So it’s really important to know who you are trying to meet.

[00:20:09] Julie Yusmin: So, you know, for example, an attorney is, might be trying to meet obviously direct clients. But also attorneys that specialize in other areas. To be able to give referral, so you, you need to do that homework and understand where you want to go. Now, depending on the type of attorney you are. You would also want to think, okay, well, am I going to meet those people.

[00:20:35] Julie Yusmin: At a chamber of commerce, or am I better. Suited going to to bar association things. You have to, you have to ask yourself those questions and sometimes you can only really figure that out by trial and error. So that’s part of the, the going wide experience. You know, I’ve just actually done that for my own business.

[00:20:56] Julie Yusmin: I was doing a big wide and then I started thinking, okay, you know, am I. Do people really understand enough what I do to integrate it into, you know, their professional world and be able to, to talk to me, talk about me to other people, refer me business, et cetera, et cetera, and I, for them, and then I think you kind of can, you know, start.

[00:21:20] Julie Yusmin: Making your selection a little bit shorter and then, but the other thing is, once you think about. Your best places to be, you want to keep evaluating that too. So that when the. You know, so say, you know, 2 things are happening at the same night. You know, which 1 is more important for me to go to. Then when the renewal time comes, you know, which one really paid off for me the most.

[00:21:46] Julie Yusmin: Yeah.

[00:21:47] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Yeah. So I think, you know, and also consider, you know, if you, if you’re going after, you want to meet lawyers like I do, and you’re a lawyer that is in a very specific area and you know that other lawyers are your key referral sources, then go where the lawyers are. I mean, you can go to a chamber of commerce where it’s a mix of, you know, 50 different types of businesses, but that’s not maybe is, is straight up is, is going to wear the.

[00:22:10] Steve Fretzin: Potential referral sources are and continue to be. And again, if you find that they’re too young for you, too old for you, they’re not in the right areas, you know, like your point, evaluate and adapt. Yeah.

[00:22:23] Julie Yusmin: I think it takes some investigating, you know, a little bit of research always, of course, ask to pay a visit very important before you join, because you may go to something and you thought it was just the right.

[00:22:37] Julie Yusmin: Group for you. Like you said, maybe the other people are too young, too old, not a good fit. So absolutely. I can’t imagine an organization that won’t let you visit

[00:22:48] Steve Fretzin: to, or maybe be concerned about an organization that won’t let you visit. That’s for sure. Absolutely. Um, and talk to some people who are in it.

[00:22:57] Steve Fretzin: You know, if you’re looking at provisors and Julie’s a new member of provisors, I’m so happy you’re, you’re in the, in my group. But, you know, come to the meeting and wow, you walk in and you realize, you know, a bunch of people, or you realize that there’s a number of people that can validate that this is the, this is where the action is.

[00:23:13] Steve Fretzin: Well, that’s going to give you a lot more enthusiasm about the group then. Then joining and then, you know, being miserable that you, you made a bad decision possibly right?

[00:23:23] Julie Yusmin: And in fact, I’ve been coaching someone who was. Considering whether to join a group, it was an industry specific group and she happened to know the person who left the position.

[00:23:36] Julie Yusmin: That she wanted to fill and she said, well, I wonder why she left. Did she think it wasn’t valuable? I said, you know what? Reach out to her, find out, you

[00:23:45] Steve Fretzin: know, do your due diligence. Yeah. Okay. I love that. So what, let’s, let’s just get into two or three of your best tips and tricks and tactics for Effective networking.

[00:23:58] Steve Fretzin: I may throw in one or two as well, but I think it’s so important, Julie, for people to hear a fresh perspective if they’ve been listening to me yammer on for a period of time.

[00:24:07] Julie Yusmin: Okay. Well, we already talked about listening. Right? I know what I think a lot. I’m sorry.

[00:24:12] Steve Fretzin: What? I didn’t listening. Oh, I’m just got me.

[00:24:16] Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

[00:24:17] Julie Yusmin: So even when we’re listening, the tendency is to be listening, waiting for our chance to jump in and talk. And I think you need to really control that impulse because then you’re not focusing on listening. You’re thinking about when you get a chance to talk.

[00:24:31] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, or the one upsmanship. That’s a big thing people do all the time.

[00:24:35] Steve Fretzin: And it, sometimes it makes sense if you’re in a group and you’re, you know, you’re having fun and it’s all stories people are telling. But when someone’s telling you about their life and then you say, well, that’s, that ain’t nothing. Let me tell you what, what happened to me. It’s like, you just like shut that person down hard.

[00:24:49] Steve Fretzin: And, you know, if you’re trying to make friends and influence people, you may have, you may have picked the wrong way to do it. Yeah, way to start a

[00:24:56] Julie Yusmin: relationship by discounting someone else’s experience.

[00:25:01] Steve Fretzin: So, um, all right. So listening is number one, but what, but continue from there.

[00:25:06] Julie Yusmin: Okay. Well, I would say when you’re talking about your business to someone, you know, it’s your legitimate chance to talk about it.

[00:25:14] Julie Yusmin: Don’t sacrifice content for being clever, you know, sometimes, uh, like, you were talking about 1 thing. So, at certain, uh, organization networking events, it’s like the thing to have a really clever. Intro, but, um, I think sometimes when people get into that competition, they, they stop really letting people know what they do.

[00:25:42] Julie Yusmin: They sacrifice content for trying to be clever. And I think that’s a mistake.

[00:25:47] Steve Fretzin: Okay. Yeah. And I would just add, you know, prepare an infomercial. I mean, read on it, just go to Google and say, how do I write a great infomercial? Write it out, run it through ChatGDT, run it by, you know, me or other people that you know that, you know, appreciate good, uh, infomercials, because when you do have that time to speak, whether that’s a quick infomercial in front of a group or a one on one where you have actually a long period of time to talk ten minutes.

[00:26:13] Steve Fretzin: You need to know what to say that’s going to capture someone’s attention and that’s going to get them to go, you know, I have some questions for you, or that sounds really interesting versus them just glossing over and wondering, like, when can they get out of there and go to their next meeting? That

[00:26:25] Julie Yusmin: is a really excellent point.

[00:26:27] Julie Yusmin: And particularly in a situation where you’re giving your quote unquote elevator pitch, uh, not only do you want to write it out, you want to practice saying it. Practice saying it many times, because it really, it helps and actually, if you don’t do it, I think it makes you more tense and nervous about getting up there.

[00:26:46] Julie Yusmin: But especially if there’s a time requirement on it, like, if you only have 15 seconds. It’s very offensive to people when you’re going over that and taking someone else’s time. So time it and practice it and on your way to the event. That’s also a really good time to practice.

[00:27:06] Steve Fretzin: And really try to stay away from the features and benefits in particular, lawyers tend to, you know, I’m at a full service firm, Julie, so I do this and we do this and we do this and we do this after you get to like the third thing, it’s over, like everybody, they don’t remember instead of remembering anything, they remember nothing, they remember nothing about you, they don’t know what you do, where you focus, what, what clients they can send your way, it’s all gone, so really be Focused in how you, you know, share what you do and present what makes you unique, how you help people so that it resonates.

[00:27:43] Steve Fretzin: I agree with

[00:27:44] Julie Yusmin: that. And I think that really goes with every profession doing a laundry list is not gonna help you out at the end of the day,

[00:27:52] Steve Fretzin: right on right around. How about how about follow up? That’s a big problem. So you’re meeting all these people. That’s great. I’m building my network nice and wide and deep and all that.

[00:28:02] Steve Fretzin: But I don’t have a system for following up. So these relationships that I’ve invested all this time in just kind of float away into the distance. Oh, gosh,

[00:28:11] Julie Yusmin: that makes me want to cry because if you don’t follow up, you know, in some ways it was almost like The whole thing was a waste. Yeah. Because following up is where the networking really start.

[00:28:21] Julie Yusmin: So you know, if you do get business cards, of course you wanna make, as soon as you can, make notes to remind yourself a little something about the person in the conversation you had, because it’s really easy to forget and it happens quicker than you think. The other thing is absolutely never, ever, ever do like a blast email out to the entire list of people that were at the event.

[00:28:46] Julie Yusmin: And sell your services, that’s a huge turn off and people don’t read them anyway, except, you know, sometimes I read them to go, who is this naughty person that did that? Right? Um, because it really is a big turn off. But, um, when you’re following up again, you’re not using it as an opportunity to sell your services, you’re just.

[00:29:07] Julie Yusmin: You want to reinforce the relationship if it was someone you had a really good connection with that, you know, you want to take it deeper and further than you might say. I would love to get together for coffee, so I can learn more about what you do, or I have a friend I’d like you to meet. I would love to introduce you to that person.

[00:29:27] Julie Yusmin: This is your opportunity to show that you listened. You heard what they said, and you’re willing to give. And so follow up is, you know, it’s key.

[00:29:39] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And a simple, a simple add on to your email is a thing called a boomerang. And I, again, they’re not a sponsor or anything, but I use them and I tell my clients to use boomerang.

[00:29:48] Steve Fretzin: So whether you have Gmail or Outlook, just type in Google boomerang for Outlook. And essentially what it does is it allows me to put a boomerang on an email going out. So Julie, I email you about something that we talked about. Okay. You need to respond to me to set up a date or to give me whatever it was that we were talking about.

[00:30:06] Steve Fretzin: The boomerang basically will put your email after I send it a week later. If you don’t get back to me, it’s going to put it at the top of my inbox. So now it’s an action item for me to say, Hey, Julie hasn’t responded in a week. Um, or I needed to respond to her in a week. Now I have this reminder. And so again, it’s, it’s simple automation, but it really helps among other things that you could or should be doing, uh, to do that.

[00:30:28] Julie Yusmin: So, and actually Gmail is starting to do that

[00:30:31] Steve Fretzin: too. Well, Gmail, I do boomerang through Gmail. So Gmail is doing that without boomerang that I need to know about it. Cause I may cancel my boomerang. I’ll have to look into that. Okay. Yeah. Well, I’m getting a lot of reminders lately. Awesome. Awesome. All right, Julie, we’re wrapping up with our, our game changing podcast or book and yours is a book.

[00:30:49] Steve Fretzin: And I met Bob Berg years and years ago, saw him speak and really, really. Fascinating guy. In addition to just really top, top level networker, endless referrals, take 30 seconds on that.

[00:31:01] Julie Yusmin: So endless referrals, quick story. The way I met Bob Berg is when he was doing his endless referrals, book tour, so genius calling chambers of commerce and offering to come speak to a group so he could sell his book.

[00:31:15] Julie Yusmin: So I arranged for him to come. He was phenomenal. Right. And the book, that was really my first, um, You know, real deep dive into this whole relationship building and it makes so much sense and I think it’s really easy to apply to your everyday business and networking life. And, um, you know, I consider him to be pretty much a guru and it’s a great book.

[00:31:42] Julie Yusmin: It’s an easy read. And I, it’s just really something you should have on your

[00:31:47] Steve Fretzin: bookshelf. Well, everybody check out endless referrals and Julie, if people want to get in touch with you to learn more about networking coaching, they want to talk to you about helping them become a better networker and take those introverts that really struggle with, with that piece, what are the, what’s the best way for them to, to get in touch with you?

[00:32:05] Julie Yusmin: Um, they, it’d be great if they want to reach out to me at Julie at.

[00:32:13] Julie Yusmin: Um, or they can go ahead and just give me a call on my, on my phone, 847 975 5257. I, I love to chat. Um, I, you know, it’s my favorite subject, so I, you know, just to bounce some ideas around is always really fun for me too.

[00:32:31] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And again, it doesn’t hurt to reach out to a coach, an expert, someone that knows a little more than you and, and pick their brain and take 30 minutes and.

[00:32:40] Steve Fretzin: Evaluate whether there’s a fit or not, or if you just have a couple of questions that you need answered to help you get on the right track. Most people like you and I, right, that’s part of our giving mindset is that, you know, we’re not looking for everyone to be our clients. Sometimes we just want to give some really good advice or some good ideas and let someone figure it out on their own.

[00:32:57] Steve Fretzin: And again, if that doesn’t work, they can come back, but we try to be, we try to be the resource.

[00:33:02] Julie Yusmin: You find out that, uh, maybe what you can do for them isn’t actually what they need, but you can refer them to someone where it’d be a better fit. And I’ve just been doing that a lot recently. And that’s gratifying too, when you can help somebody in that

[00:33:14] Steve Fretzin: way.

[00:33:15] Steve Fretzin: Oh yeah, for sure. For sure. And, um, speaking of, of, of help, let’s, uh, take a moment to just thank our wonderful sponsors, of course, get staffed up helping you, uh, you know, get more time to network by getting rid of all the. administrative marketing work that you might be doing to a very talented VA. Uh, we’ve got Green Cardigan Marketing, who’s cranking out websites for some of the top firms.

[00:33:37] Steve Fretzin: And of course, Lawmatics, another, you know, marketing engine to help you, you know, keep track of your people you meet with and put them in a pipeline and actually follow up with them through automation. So Lawmatics for doing that for me and, and other lawyers that are smart enough to tend to get software to do our bidding for us instead of our time.

[00:33:56] Steve Fretzin: Um, Julie, thanks again for being on the show, sharing your wisdom. You’re a beautiful person and I’m just so happy that we’re friends and that we’re, that we’re, you know, hanging out together again.

[00:34:05] Julie Yusmin: Me too. Thank you

[00:34:06] Steve Fretzin: so much, Steve. Yeah. My pleasure. And thank you everybody for spending some time with Julie and I today all about helping you to be that lawyer.

[00:34:13] Steve Fretzin: Someone who’s confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. Take care, everybody. Be safe. Be well. We’ll talk again soon.

[00:34:23] Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website Fretzin. com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.