In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Justin Stivers discuss:
- Why lawyers struggle with maintaining marketing consistency.
- Figuring out where to begin with marketing.
- Taking control of your calendar (and the repercussions for breaking commitments to yourself).
- Doing the things you enjoy doing and delegating the other, valuable, items.
- Step one to marketing is finding out what you want your life to look like. There are many options that will work for what you want.
- Different platforms work for different audiences.
- Before you leave the office, look at your calendar for the next day and create the day you want before the next day begins.
- Understand why you are doing the marketing you are choosing to do and why you are wanting to stay top of mind.
“That’s been my secret – I put it on the calendar, and, as much as I can, I stay as disciplined to that calendar and do what’s on there.” — Justin Stivers
Connect with Justin Stivers:
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
Narrator, Justin Stivers, Steve Fretzin
Justin Stivers [00:00]
Print billboards, TV, radio, all different types of stuff, that if you just haphazardly start throwing money at it, you’ll go broke, you know, really quick and something will work a little bit. And so it’s not a great strategy. But I think, for me, it was trying to be as concise about every aspect of the business. And I started by saying, you know, know, what you want that outcome to look like. So what do you want your lifestyle to look like? How many days do you want to be working? What’s your ideal income, and then you work backwards from that.
You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for grilling a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin [00:56]
Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I am Steve Fretzin. As the announcer just told you, and welcome to the show. This is a show all about helping you be that lawyer someone who’s confident organized a skilled Rainmaker. As you may or may not know, you know, Fretzin is all about helping individual lawyers to grow their law practices. We don’t work with law firms. And I don’t really work too much outside of have individual attorneys that are highly motivated, ambitious, interested, and want that extra something that’s going to make the difference between doing everyone else’s work or getting your own clients and building your fortune, however you see fit. One of the other things that I’m really focusing on and been doing for the last year has been these Rainmaker roundtables and business developer roundtables. And if you’re unfamiliar with that, it’s really not so much coaching and training. For me, it’s really about peer advisory, getting together with other lawyers who are experienced in growing their law practices in different experiences than you different practice areas. But they all have one thing in common, they want to be in a confidential group to share their experiences, best practices, challenges, hold each other accountable. And that’s a big part of that’s actually a great segue to the show today, which is about how you stay consistent with your marketing efforts, and no better person to bring on the show and interview today than Justin Stivers, who’s the owner of the probate law firm down in Miami. How’s it going, Justin?
Justin Stivers [02:22]
Good, Steve. Thanks for having me on, man. Yeah,
Steve Fretzin [02:25]
yeah, I’m looking forward to the conversation and getting too into the weeds a little bit as it relates to you’ve done a ton of marketing and you’ve built a great practice down there great law firm and do me a favor and just give a little background, Reader’s Digest version on yourself, your background, your firm, and what you’re doing down there in Miami.
Justin Stivers [02:44]
Yeah, I appreciate it. And thanks again for having me on. So, you know, quick two minute bio, born in Florida raised in Tennessee, undergrad at a small school, Michigan, people will know at Appalachian State University our claim to fame beat Michigan. You know, studied there after after undergrad I was in the Peace Corps lived in Honduras for a cup of three years. And knew I loved Spanish culture and warm weather. And so ended up University of Miami school law, and have been had been here ever since. And, you know, you started the firm. I think this is still relatively young, I think about four years old, I worked at a couple different firms before then, and just kind of stumbled upon the field of probate estate planning, writing wills and trusts and helping people after someone passes away, get their inheritance. And it’s been fun. You know, I think, I love I love I genuinely and I know a lot of attorneys won’t believe this. I do. Like being an attorney. I do like running a law firm practice. I’m not, you know, jaded and wanting to get out. So maybe that will keep some of the listeners for the rest of the show, if any.
Steve Fretzin [03:59]
You know, I think that that lawyers do do love being lawyers. However, when you’re doing the same mundane things over and over, you’re dealing with difficult people, when you’re finding that your time is getting smashed in. And you’re not really getting that balance or that lifestyle that you’re hoping that that’s when things start to go a little bit south. And so, you know, a big part of the show, and in particular, this interview, is getting lawyers out of the rut of the billable hour or getting them into the mindset of getting their own clients and dealing with people you like. And also having that balance because that’s how you can really enjoy a career doing something you love. But also knowing that you can step away and take a great vacation and spend time with your kids and, and do do activities you enjoy. And so that’s what what we’re really trying to accomplish here. So let’s take it let’s take it down that path and let’s talk about why do lawyers struggle with marketing and staying consistent with marketing.
Justin Stivers [04:56]
They don’t know they need to do it. They don’t know how to do it. And I think they just don’t they feel like they don’t have the time to do it. Right? It’s definitely, obviously not something you’re taught in law school. You know. And so I think if you are the type of person who goes out of law school, start your own business, you know, law firm right after you really, you really don’t unless you find help unless you get a coach, unless you do a program or something, you really don’t have those skill sets, you don’t even know you just kind of stumble through trying to find clients, and you maybe find older mentors that say, Hey, do a good job, and the clients will come and, and, you know, that works to an extent. But then if you work for a big firm, or if you work for, you know, maybe you go work for somebody else, they don’t really encourage it that much. Right. You’re you’re expected to Bill, you’re expected to do a good job. And that’s, you know, really it. You know, we know the term Rainmaker. But I think that’s, I don’t know, that doesn’t translate for most people. I think that, you know, the Rainmaker is, you know, I don’t know, maybe one or two people out of the firm, and everybody else is just expected to work. And so they don’t, they don’t know that they need to do and they don’t know how to do it.
Steve Fretzin [06:11]
Yeah, and if even if they do know that they need, and I think more attorneys are realizing that because you know, in some instances, recruiters won’t touch you, if you don’t have a book of business that’s portable, or because you realize that you’re seeing other people getting bonused and getting compensated properly, based on the fact that they’re bringing in a million dollars, and you’re bringing in nothing or very little. And so I think the realization is is come really not full circle, but maybe half circle in the last 10 years. It’s why I got pulled into this space, it wasn’t like I went searching to work with lawyers, you know, they they kind of found me and then dragged me and kicking and screaming. But I love it. Because what I find is that lawyers generally are sort of like a whiteboard. That’s, that’s completely blank, like, there’s no bad habits other than not doing it. And so that’s actually easier for me to work with than a salesperson who has, you know, 20 years or 10 years of bad habits that I have to somehow erase, and then re redraw. And so lawyers are hungry for process and methodology and ideas. And I think that’s why people are listening to this show, because they’re looking to meet someone like you, Justin that has these ideas, get a couple tips, and maybe start making that move to, you know, get some momentum in the right direction. So, so if if someone has the interest, and let’s assume that people have the interest, how do they figure out or maneuver? Like, what do I wear? Like, what marketing do I do? Where do I start? How did you how did you figure that out?
Justin Stivers [07:39]
A lot of trial and error, I think, you know, maybe one big takeaway is figure out, you know, what you want your life to look like. And I know we were kind of talking a little bit about that before this. But you know, there’s so many different marketing channels, there’s so many different things that you can do. There’s social media, all different types of platforms, print, billboards, TV, radio, all different types of stuff, that if you just haphazardly start throwing money at it, you’ll go broke, you know, really quick, and something will work a little bit. And so it’s not a great strategy. But I think, for me, it was trying to be as concise about every aspect of the business. So I started by saying, you know, know, what you want that outcome to look like? So what do you want your lifestyle to look like? How many days do you want to be working? What’s your ideal income? And then you work backwards from that. So you know what, you know, what type of law do you want to be doing? What type of clients do you want to be working with? And then you reverse engineer that? How many clients you know, what’s your average case value? How many clients? Do you need to have come in the door? What’s your closing percentage? And it’s very mathematical. Right? And I’m sure you talk with your clients about that as well. I mean, it’s very mathematical, you can figure out, you know, if you want to make a million dollars, and you know, your average case value is this, you can reverse engineer that. And then, you know, again, once you figure out who your ideal client is, you know, if your ideal client is, you know, I don’t know you’re doing estate planning, for example, for me, my ideal clients, probably not on tick tock. So even though someone a Guru comes to me and says, hey, I can get you, you know, a million views on tick tock, well, yeah, but my average client is 6570 year old, like, they’re probably not on tick tock. And so then you can kind of figure out what platforms work the best for you. And then I think it starts with, you know, what your goal is, and then from there, you kind of work backwards.
Steve Fretzin [09:31]
Yeah, I really love that. And I do that with my clients, for sure. So I’m dealing with a lawyer who has half a million dollars wants to get to 750, right in a year. And some people would say that seems high. But look, if we focus our energies in the right doing the right things, the right ways, good things happen if, if your average client is $50,000. Well, we need five clients. Well, that’s one every other month for example, and then what’s the level of activity marketing and business development that needs to happen? tend to get one new client every other month. So you’re you’re spot on with reverse engineering. And I think you’re also you making a great point that a lot. And I’ll add to it one that you should focus on the marketing, where your audience is where your audience, where are they? Where are they. And so if they’re not on Tik Tok, or Instagram, then don’t go there. The other thing that I would suggest is the business development side. So there’s marketing, which is, you know, the content that you’re putting out the writing the video, the social media, all that. And then obviously, I’m teaching business development, which is the networking, it’s the leveraging of your relationships, it’s how do you help people and help them help you. And if you mix those up together and actually find what you enjoy? Or what you can stomach, if you will, right. And of course, it gets easier as you do more of it, that’s going to help you really get to those numbers, and then you start whittling away right
Justin Stivers [10:55]
now, 100 100%. And I think, you know, something that I was just thinking when you were saying the the networking, the blending of the two, there’s no magic bullet, right. And I think everybody intuitively knows that. And there’s no, hey, spend this amount of money on Google ads, and you’ll become, you know, rich, or, but I do think there is in the longer I do this, I think there’s a blend of the online and the in person. And I think you can’t neglect either one of those, I think both have to be in full force. And, you know, some people gravitate towards one of the other I think attorneys, by and large, for the most part, they get the value, and they get that you need to go to events you need to network, and most most attorneys that’s a little bit more intuitive. And then there’s some who just don’t want to do that. And they want to just spend the money and say, Hey, you do all the marketing for me? I don’t I don’t want to touch it. I don’t know how to do it don’t have the time. And I think that’s a danger. So I think both being extremes in either or dangerous, I think you have to do kind of have a mix of both.
Steve Fretzin [11:55]
Yeah, I think that’s important. And it’s not a one size fits all, let alone you know, I think that the marketing supports the business development. So me for example, you know, I go on and present at a Bar Association’s right and in different types of associations. And then the marketing is the photo of me with the group with the you know, this is the presentation I did, and that it raises the awareness and it raises now another person invites me to do another presentation. So or someone says, oh, yeah, I saw you there. And I loved it. And I we need to talk well, now I’ve got a new lawyer who’s interested in working with me. So I think that to your point, it’s it’s that it’s that blend, and it doesn’t have to be 10 things, maybe it’s two or three things, but do those two, or three things consistently? And how do you do that? So I’m crushed on time, I’m building 60 hours a week, whatever the reasoning might be, how am I how do I carve out time and make it a priority? To do business development or marketing in a consistent way? How did you do it?
Justin Stivers [12:57]
Yeah, I mean, the time thing is, is a learned, it’s a skill set. 100%. It’s a skill set. And I think how you how you do it, is you have to first acknowledge that marketing is vital, right? So you have to first is no, it’s not, Oh, I gotta find the time to do it, you know, you just make a decision, I have to do it. There are no ifs, ands and buts about it, I gotta do something I gotta market. And so once you kind of made that decision that like I am going to do marketing. Now you got to figure out where you’re going to put it onto your calendar. And so that, you know, and this is, again, this is a learned thing that I’ve been working on for a long time now, but is really taking control of of your calendar, really taking control of of your schedule. And I think, you know, I could go on for a long time about that. But just a couple things that I would say is, I’m a big believer in block calendaring. So, you know, look at your calendar, what I do, I’ll just kind of tell you what I do. I look at my calendar every quarter. And I and I look at where I am in terms of the amount of staff that I have the goals that I have. And I’ll say okay, I want to do on Monday, and this is an example Monday, you know, in the morning, I’m going to work on legal work in the afternoon, I’m going to work on a specific marketing campaigns, I do that for the entire each quarter and I change it and if I need to switch it up, I will because something happens. But I know each day going in more or less what I’m working on, then I have a task system where I’ll break it down even to more specific thing, like instead of just saying, hey, from two to five, I’m going to work on marketing. That’s pretty broad. And I could feel overwhelmed by that. So I might say from two to three in that marketing space. I’m going to do social media posts and I’m gonna break it down further and that’s going to be Facebook posts, and then you know, I break it down like that. And then one of the biggest thing I think that I’ve done I’ve kind of adopted this over probably the past three years, is before I leave the office, I look at my calendar for the next day and I actually use a no card and I write down what basically in three minute increments from the time that I wake up to the time that I’m that I’m going to go to bed I write down what I’m going to be doing during that time space. And so that allows me to kind of create the create the day that I want. And as opposed to coming in on a Tuesday, and then get checking my email and go in, you know, playing whack a mole and just like chasing, you know, whatever comes in or accepting any phone call that comes in, I know what I’m doing. So like, if someone calls me during nine and 10, and I’ve got scheduled to do X, I’m not going to start doing why. And I think that’s you and that, that takes a lot of discipline and practice. And it’s not it’s not perfect, but I think that’s, that’s been if I don’t know if it’s a secret, but that’s kind of been my, my secret is that I put it on the calendar and as much as I can I stay as discipline to that calendar and do what’s on there.
Steve Fretzin [15:47]
Yeah, I mean, I’ll add two points to it. What you’re saying is so spot on, it’s did you have the day? Or did the day have you? And there are attorneys listening? That’s, uh, yeah, every day, the day has me, I mean, I just get caught up in whatever’s going on. And then the next thing you know, it’s the next day, and then it’s the next day, and you’re never really getting around to what needs to happen for you to be successful in building a law practice. The second thing I want to I want to mention is, people do block time, and then they ignore it. And here’s the problem. If I scheduled this podcast, Justin with you, and you show up, and you’re waiting for me, and I just don’t show, you’re not gonna be real happy with me. This is your time, it’s valuable. My time is valuable, but I just blew you off, right? So you’re upset with me. And there’s repercussions that happen with that. But if I set up a meeting with myself, and I blow it off, there’s no repercussions. Or so I think, because no one’s yelling at me. I’m not thinking that it’s really there’s any any negativity there. What’s actually happening, though, on a subconscious level, is you’re breaking a commitment to yourself over and over and over, it’s chipping away at your attitude, it’s chipping away in your belief, and we’re not able to see it because it’s happening subconsciously. So for the people out there that think it’s okay to just say, Hey, I’m gonna go to the gym and then don’t or I’m gonna stop smoking and don’t are I’m going to get business development done and don’t, it is hurting you, you just don’t see it the same way as if you blow off a friend. Right. So what are your thoughts? I mean, that’s, that’s a little bit of a psychological, you know, layman psychological, I’m not like, you know, a therapist or anything, but I play one on TV with the lawyers. But what are your thoughts on what I’m saying?
Justin Stivers [17:26]
Yeah, I don’t have a solution for that necessarily.
Steve Fretzin [17:29]
What your solution is don’t don’t blow off meetings yourself, right? Because then you’re not only hurting yourself psychologically, but you’re not actually accomplishing the goals that you’ve set
Justin Stivers [17:38]
out? Yeah, I think one thing that maybe has been helpful is like what I was saying, as if you just put on your blog calendar, on your blog, on your calendar, big time chunks of marketing activities. To me, for me, personally, that’s easy to get lost in that. And it’s easy to say, you know, something else came up, I’ll just move that around. But if, if for me that I make it very granular, very specific, that, hey, I’m going to write 10 posts in that time slot. For me, it’s easier to do because it’s more specific, it’s less like, Oh, just a big, you know, grand idea. And from and that’s where there’s no card has really talked about psychological has come come in handy for me, is when I finish it, I put a line through check. And last last night is a great example, I had a long day yesterday, there was something that I had to get done yesterday, I didn’t really want to do it. I sat down, I looked at my I looked at the the no card. I was like crap, I haven’t finished that. And I got it done. Am I perfect? No. Like some sometimes you just don’t, you’re just not going to get it done. But that might be a little trick that that helps. But I think the just being really as specific as you can is has been helpful for me.
Steve Fretzin [18:51]
And let me just add something that I have my clients do on a regular basis. And this has been I don’t want to say transformative. But for your you’re like on a you’re on an island and you’ve you figured out how to survive on the island, doing marketing with your notecards. Another thing that people listening might want to try is, and I do this with all my clients, I have them set up that time that block a time that hour, 45 minutes a week, or whatever it might be with an accountability buddy. So it’s another lawyer that’s also interested in business development. Let’s say it’s 9am on a Monday, that every 9am on Monday you to get on a zoom, talk about what you’re going to accomplish in the next 45 minutes. Put yourselves on mute, whatever, come back at the end of 40 minutes, talk about what you accomplished. And you’re done. That’s it for the week. I mean, if that’s all you’re going to do in the week, that’s fine, but at least it’s something and you’re being held accountable because you can’t show not show up because your buddies waiting for you. So that’s another good I’ve given a lot of tips here. Yeah, like you are Justin we’re we’re Co Op. We’re co authoring this podcast well together.
Justin Stivers [19:57]
One thing I was going to add that just kind of came up as well. All this, you got to find stuff you like. And if you’re, if you’re like, for me, I do not like writing blocks. It’s just I can do it. And they’re very used, they’re very important. You know, our website gets a lot of traffic, and I’m very consistent about it. And when it was just me, I would write them. I didn’t like writing them. I don’t like writing them now. But it got to a point where now, I don’t write them myself. I have other people that write them. For me. There are things I really do. Like, I like giving presentations. I like doing seminars, there’s there’s certain things you know, that I like doing. But there’s some things you just have to do. And I think that’s just life, you know, right. There’s part of it and look at it in your legal practice, you probably don’t like answering the phones, most attorneys do not like answering their phones being on reception. And so at some point in their career, they hire a receptionist, a secretary, whatever. And they get past it and somebody has to answer the phone, I would say the same thing about marketing. There’s certain things, whether it’s social media, whether it’s writing newsletters, whether it’s writing blogs, whether it’s speaking, networking, whatever, you might just have to do some of it for a little while. And if you know it’s valuable, if you know, you know that this one specific activity brings in business, do it until you get enough revenue to hire and have somebody else do it for you.
Steve Fretzin [21:19]
Yeah, and it sounds like the two like I wrote down two things as you’re talking, it’s it’s outsource everything you can outsource, right? Everything you don’t want to do that you shouldn’t do, that’s not worth your time. If you’re charging 400 an hour, and you’re doing things at 20 to $40 an hour, well, then you’re not really making 400 an hour, you’re really making a lot less, and the other one is automate. And I’m in the process, always, always, always in the process of automating I bought a remarkable too. And so I’m moving all of my paper to non paper, everything gets uploaded and saved. I’ve I’ve automated my scheduling through if you’ve got Calendly and acuity and now law Maddox has that. And I mean, so I’m not really going back and forth trying to schedule. So it’s, it’s these are the things that open up the door for you to find that time to do the marketing, which then helps you build your practice and get that business and, you know, it’s like the cart before the horse, we’ve got to do some things to get that time opened up, which it sounds like you, you’ve really figured out another thing I want to ask you about his video, I’ve seen your that you’ve been very consistent with putting out these little educational videos on your on your subject matter expertise, how you’ve been consistent, I actually literally went through your LinkedIn and saw that, yeah, you’re putting them out on a regular basis? Is that something that you feel strongly is important for lawyers to do video versus versus blogging? Or both? Or
Justin Stivers [22:44]
do everything? You can do everything you can?
Steve Fretzin [22:50]
Yeah, so But real quick, just in the blogging, you said you’ve outsourced but the video now you’re not? I mean, it’s you on a camera talking, you know, talking your business?
Justin Stivers [22:59]
Yeah, so so there is some I do agree with outsourcing as much as you can. But you do have two people hire you. And as much as and I’m a believer that the name of my firm is the probate law firm. And as much as I tried to have people hire the firm, and not necessarily just me, I still am the face of it. Right. And most most attorneys are going to be the face. And I think, especially for your referral sources for your partners. You know, and maybe I’ll changes later down the road, and I’ll have someone else start doing the videos for me. But for right now, I think it needs to be me. And, you know, so I film them. And this kind of goes to the to the scheduling part of it. I know every Monday morning, I’m going to film X amount of videos. Once a month, I’m going to spill even more videos because now we’re really ramping up our YouTube presence. And we’re we’re putting out three videos a week on YouTube. And but I don’t I don’t edit them. I don’t post them. I don’t you know, do the graphics on that because talk about things that I don’t like that’s something I hate doing. I don’t know how to do it. Yeah, I don’t I don’t want to know how to do it. So I have I have a marketing assistant who will do that for me. But it’s I mean, it’s simple. People ask me about the videos all the time, a tripod in my iPhone. That’s it. I filmed 30 seconds. The subject matter I don’t eat most of the time. YouTube’s a little bit different because I’m planning a month worth of content but but on Instagram where we post a lot of stuff as well. I come into the office, I’ll think of a consultation that I had with a client, I think of a question that they had. And I’ll film you know, a minute video. I don’t have to write anything down. I don’t I don’t even look at the video again. I film it one time, even if I stutter even if I trip over my words. I just posted it’s authentic. It’s me it doesn’t take a lot of time to do and I think I think it is very important and especially with social media people ask me all the time like hey, but what’s the ROI on what’s how much money you make out of it? I don’t know. Yeah, and I don’t like that I’m I’m I’m very numbers driven. I very much like to know where where my revenues coming from how much we’re spending That’s hard to Yes, I do know, every once in a while I will get a direct client, from Instagram from Facebook, not LinkedIn so much, which is interesting, but but the other platforms, we will. And I know that the only way they found me or the least the way they contacted me is through that social media platform. But I do it for a lot of other reasons as well, I do it for top of mind awareness, because I have a really, you know, I’ve spent a lot of time cultivating relationships, I have a really big referral source network, I can’t do lunches with them every single month, it’s just too many. So this is a way for me to stay, you know, very easy and free, other than my time, way to stay top of mind with them. And it’s social proof people are looking you up. So
Steve Fretzin [25:41]
yeah, and again, the time is limited, it’s not taking you like it used to be if you wanted to produce videos, it was taking days and days and days of your time and 10s of 1000s of dollars. And today, you know, an iPhone on a tripod. And, you know, as long as the sound clarity is good, and the video is not too terrible. And people appreciate the stammer in the stutter, because that’s authentic versus it being so tight. And so that’s really changed a lot. And I think it’s made doing some of these things like video and audio podcasting. And look, we’re going to tape this show, beginning to end we’re not editing out my arm and my arm, we’re not my dog barks that’s fine. Like, that’s, that’s just the way people are taking in content today. And it’s made things very easy to produce. That being said, I have an editing team, I’m not going to edit this, I’m not going to put together the graphics, I’m not posting it. Like that’s all stuff that needs to be outsourced. So I think if we have a common theme that’s run through this conversation, it’s been a you got to do it, you got to make it consistent. And then make sure that you’ve got good people around you to handle the details. Because that’s really what might drag you down to either not wanting to do it or not being successful doing is that a good way to kind of wrap up and in things before we get to the three best stuff.
Justin Stivers [26:53]
Yeah, and the one thing because I know when I talk about this, and probably when you talk about it, if depending on who’s listening, if, if you’re a little bit more seasoned, maybe this is you know, you get it, you know, it’s just now you got to motivate yourself to do it. If you’re not doing it. For some of the newer people who aren’t used to it. You don’t start with everything, right. So all of the things that I’ve been doing and Steve that you’ve been doing, it takes time to build upon it, you just pick one thing, do it, get consistent at it, keep it going delegate, you know, outsource what you can and then add another piece of it. And just keep adding, you know, adding upon it. So cuz I know I speak with me if someone attorney reaches out and they’re like, Hey, I’m starting my practice. And I, you know, I just can’t help myself. I tell them all that I’m doing and I just see their look in their eyes. Like I can’t do all of that. Yeah, so it’s bit by bit.
Steve Fretzin [27:40]
Yeah, it’s a little bit like a layer cake. Right? You just got to get that first layer and then you can you pull a frosting down, throw another layer on, and eventually you get this delicious, you know, now I’m hungry. Now they mentioned it. Yeah. Hey, listen. So let’s let’s let’s move on to the three best of now. It’s funny because we were just talking about Mari and she was my last guest and now and she’s in Miami. And now you’re in Miami. So we’re gonna get for the first time ever. Two different people talking about their three best of in Miami. And I’m wondering if we’re gonna get three very different answers. So let’s hit it up your favorite restaurant. I’m coming down to Miami. I need to hit the top place that I’m just going to have the best experience best food. Where am I going?
Justin Stivers [28:19]
Yeah, interesting times. Now I’m not sure when this is air when this airs, but I’m sure we’ll still be in the throes of COVID Regardless, so we gotta find someplace outside and my wife is pregnant, so we’re even more cautious about it. But but so I would say this place called Strada in the grove it’s Italian restaurant pretty low key excellent food nice nice vibe outside the grove called Coconut Grove we call it the Grow there’s just a cool little area to walk around you know kind of charming nice little spots and so starting to grow that probably my my go to right now.
Steve Fretzin [28:52]
Awesome. And after or before I have that meal. I want to see some cool stuff I want to do some cool things in Miami. What am I doing?
Justin Stivers [29:01]
You know, this is maybe stereotypical but I think you got to do it we’ve got a huge you know, Cuban flavor there’s a street called Kioto Eighth Street which is just kind of true to you know, traditional Cuban vibe. A Domino Park where we’re a bunch of old school you know guys will go smoke cigars play dominoes, you know get a mojito or something like that touristy but you still you got to do
Steve Fretzin [29:26]
it but it’s the culture right I mean, I want to get that flavor I want to get I want to smell that cigar that better outside than inside and and really get a flavor for the community and that’s that’s a great one to do. And then what are what are you into or what are the locals in Miami up to these days? What are they what are they kind of how are they spending their time?
Justin Stivers [29:45]
Well, Miami is you know, we’ve obviously got the nightlife I think everybody’s familiar with with South Beach and all that sort of stuff but I would maybe say you know for for locals, you know doing something outside obviously we got the beaches, but I would recommend a state park called a lead a state park. Really cool spot to do kayaking you go through these mangroves which are awesome. And then so that’s kind of like the nature part of it and then the mangroves will lead you out until until the ocean where you see all these mega yachts and everybody out partying so you kind of get the best of both worlds so I’d recommend that
Steve Fretzin [30:19]
now really great stuff well I spent I think I mentioned on my last show my father’s generally on the west side and near Naples and Marco Island and I just need to get in a car and just shoot across that Alligator Alley get over there and go check out Miami again. I haven’t seen it in years. But listen, Justin, this has been tremendous I excited about what you’re doing. You’re absolutely sort of the epitome of what be that lawyer is all about. So people listening you know be like Justin but but you know take take the take the content you picked up today and start to think about you know, starting that with that first layer that first level and get started and and I just want to thank you for spending some some of your valuable time on the show and sharing your your ideas. So so much appreciate it. My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Steve. Yeah, and everybody listen, come on. I got I say this every time I got a page of notes I’m showing Justin page and notes. I’m not just sitting here wiggling my thumbs or set the term twiddling thumb yeah whittling your thumbs. I’m listening and I’m taking notes and I’m thinking about you know, things that I can change and things that you should be changing and how are we going to keep it me improving our law practices your law practice, I don’t have a law practice. And again, all about being that lawyer someone that’s confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Listen, everybody, be safe, be well, and we’ll talk again soon.
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