Larry Fretzin: Celebrating 200 Episodes with a Successful Special Guest

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Larry Fretzin discuss:

  • Growing up in the slums to running a successful solo law firm.
  • How the field of law has evolved over the last few decades.
  • Relationships and referrals.
  • Knowing when you’re ready to retire.

Key Takeaways:

  • If you can’t make a sale, make a friend.
  • Getting referrals from other lawyers is a great way to get business. Build those relationships, network, give others work. There is plenty of work to go around.
  • Relationships are a two way street. Stay connected, return calls, follow through on what you say you will do.
  • Play to your strengths as you build relationships.

“The important thing is to make a lot of friends, work hard on the cases that you have, so that you can have good rapport with the court and be successful in your cases.” —  Larry Fretzin

Thank you to our Sponsors!

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Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.



lawyer, clients, practice, law, cases, business, dad, years, successful law practice, died, attorney, listen, retired, relationships, money, law school, arbitration, heart attack, legalese, grow


Larry Fretzin, Narrator, Stephanie Vaughn Jones, Steve Fretzin, Jordan Ostroff


Larry Fretzin  [00:00]

The important thing is to make a lot of friends. Work hard on the cases that you have so that you can have good rapport with the court and be successful in your cases.


Narrator  [00:17]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer Coach Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.


Steve Fretzin  [00:39]

Hey everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I am your host, Steve Fretzin. You may not realize it but today is the 200th episode of Be that lawyer. Holy mackerel. How did that happen? It’s been just over two years, and we’ve knocked out a ton of shows I’ve had some of the most amazing guests I could ever imagine happening. To help you be that lawyer someone who’s confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. This show never stops giving. That’s the whole point and we’re not gonna we’re not going to miss a beat today. 200 episodes? Well, who better to round the corner of my 200th episode? Then Larry Fretzin. You may have heard me speak about this guy. He’s a real interesting guy, Larry Fretzin. I don’t know if that name sounds familiar to anybody. Okay, because that’s my dad. My dad is my guest today. He’s standing by How’re you doing, dad?


Larry Fretzin  [01:28]



Steve Fretzin  [01:29]

All right. Hang tight. I got to thank those sponsors got to bring in the bringing the Benjamins. Okay. So mani pedi helping me with my online live reception on my website. They do live reception in your office. You don’t need a receptionist anymore. You don’t have to pay someone all that money, get money penny to help you with that. And of course, we have legalese marketing social media websites to helping you with your newsletters. Make sure you’re building that brand marketing is key. And whether we’re going into recession or not, you need to stay up on your marketing now. My dad, Larry Fretzin is the guest today. How you doing? Okay, it’s still okay. Since the last time I asked you two minutes ago. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Good. Good. And the reason I brought my dad on today is because I’ve been mentioning him for now he’s gonna go have to go back and listen to 200 episodes to see if I mentioned him or not. But I’ve mentioned him a number of times very successful solo practitioner. Retired. What about 22 years ago? Yes. Okay. All right. We’re gonna get a lot of one word answers out to have no, I’m just kidding. My dad loves to talk and you’re gonna get to hear lots of him in a minute. You don’t remember this, but when I say it, you will dad that quote of the show is your quote that you told me. And I don’t think he made it up. But I’m gonna give you credit and say you made this up. Okay. You alright with that? Okay, okay, here we go. If you can’t make a sale, make a friend. Remember that? Oh, absolutely. That was when I first started practicing. Do you remember when


Larry Fretzin  [03:00]

I was it? Huh? Who told you that? Who told me that? Yeah, just a partner of yours. No, it was a I was in court and I met this lawyer who I got to be friendly with and he hangs around the criminal court building all the time. And he told me that that you know, I’m a young guy just started practicing. It was maybe out of pregnancy, maybe for a couple of weeks. And he came to me we got together and he told me that never forgot it. Yeah. Well, it


Steve Fretzin  [03:33]

resonated with me. I think you told me that. I don’t know if it’s when I started my sales career in that ballpark. But I would love to help everybody. So if somebody works with me, great. If they don’t work with me, how can I help you? How can I you know, help you in your career? How can I help you find a job or find a resource that’s going to be different better than whatever than me? So that really resonated with me and I appreciated hearing that and I think it’s really a great way to it’s almost like a life lesson more than a business


Larry Fretzin  [03:57]

lesson. Right now,


Steve Fretzin  [04:01]

so let’s get into the weeds of before we get into your story, which I want to thank everyone that’s been listening to the show, maybe know that I’ve got an autographed Jordan Jersey behind me, okay. And I’ve had it for many, many years. I got it in I think 95 And you remember the story of how I got that Jordan jersey? Not at all, okay, someone presented it to me, he had a couple of them and he was selling them and I said Hey, Dad, look, I got this opportunity to buy a Jordan Jersey there for 50 I said you want to go in on it with me? And you said yes, I said and I’ll hang on to it. So that’s how that went down. So you kind of got suckered in by your 20 something at the time on a Jordan jersey. Oh, well, looks good. Looks good behind me. So let’s get into your story. So first off, you grew up in the projects in Chicago so what is that like? How does someone who comes from nothing with no money? Nothing get into not only undergrad but also into law school and in Excel because you and your your twin brother, you know, Uncle Davy, it was a doctor, right? So you guys, I mean, let’s not get it. Let’s keep a Reader’s Digest version, because we have a half an hour. But how did you even know that you wanted to be a lawyer? And how did you get out of the slums that you were in?


Larry Fretzin  [05:10]

Well, when I was, in my last year of high school, I was elected by our class to be the class treasurer. And as one I had to do work with books, and, and so on, and I got interested in that, and decided I’d like to be an accountant. And I started university, University of Illinois at Navy Pier, where the tuition was $60 $60 a semester $60 a semester plus books. So we were able to make that Alright, okay. And so, I went to University of Illinois for my studying accounting for free TV and a half years. And in the course, one of the curriculum required that I take business law, which I did, I took two courses in business law, I got straight A’s and enjoy doing it. Meanwhile, my courses in accounting, were going down to two, and I wasn’t enjoying it, and I wasn’t doing well. So that made me that plus the fact that I read Clarence Darrow life story. And I was really impressed with that. And then having good luck with the bus business law, I decided that I go into law. And my last semester of law school college, I took, I had so many credits, I was able to go to law school, and I went to University of Illinois. And for my last semester of regular school, I entered into law school, and I was a number one in my class, but that one semester, I got straight A’s, no one could believe it, including me. And that was the Paul Wright. Was it the Paul Wright. And then so then after that, I graduated, went into the Army for six months. It was the worst six months of my life, and then got out and decided I needed a job, obviously. And there was a small law firm, two lawyers who had just gotten out of there just practicing law for three years. So I didn’t know too much. One was a criminal lawyer, one was a civil lawyer. So I went in there, and they interviewed me and they said, I could get the job with them at $10 a day. $50 a week. Alright, so


Steve Fretzin  [07:20]

let me stop you there. So excited about $50 A week or kind of bummed out at $50 a week is like someone with a law degree?


Larry Fretzin  [07:28]

Well, I was happy to get it because I wanted to practice law. I didn’t know what it was out there. I just got out of the military. And I thought, well, I’ll you know, see what goes what happens. It turns out that I’ve got more experienced in the two years that I worked with them, then any most lawyers in their lifetime. And I can say that with the backup. Just to give you an example. In my first year of law school, I argued the case before the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals against the criminal case, in which the My opponent was my professor of constitutional law in law school. He had had and he was, had the most experience of any lawyer in the country, in arguing cases. It was to say, the outcome did not go to


Steve Fretzin  [08:17]

my next question, How’d that work out for


Larry Fretzin  [08:18]

you? Okay.


Steve Fretzin  [08:22]

But you got the point is that you got a tremendous amount of experience in practicing the law, which to you was more important than making a buck.


Larry Fretzin  [08:30]

Yeah. In order to live, I had to live with my parents in order to do that, because you couldn’t live on $50.


Steve Fretzin  [08:36]

Yeah, wait, and that might be a whole lot. That might be a whole other other episode dealing with them. I’m sorry. So that might be another episode of the show dealing with your parents?


Larry Fretzin  [08:46]

Oh, they were okay. No problem. All


Steve Fretzin  [08:49]

right. Okay. And so that was part of, I think, your journey to become, you know, a very highly regarded lawyer in Chicago, I think you had a reputation. And this is not only what I heard from you, because you were bragging about yourself all the time. I’m just good. But I would hear from your friends and your clients and the people. You know, you invited a lot of company over to the house when I was a kid, they’d always come up to me and tell me what a great guy my dad was, and what a great lawyer. So that was sort of the first two years got you wet behind the years as a relates to to dealing with all kinds of different legal issues. That’s is that kind of your beginning to becoming a really strong legal practitioner.


Larry Fretzin  [09:28]

Well, I don’t know how to use the word great. I was a practitioner, and I always did my best to do for every client, I had a theory that I would treat the client, the same whether they’re a multimillionaire or whether they were were in poverty, if they had a claim. I gave Vantage, as much attention as I would for a big case. And that’s that was the philosophy I use in the practice.


Steve Fretzin  [09:55]

Okay, so back in the 1800s when you practiced Um, oh wait, what was it? What year was it wasn’t the?


Larry Fretzin  [10:02]

How old are you? But 1959 Oh my


Steve Fretzin  [10:06]

God 1959 All right, so you started your own practice with a couple of guys. And then when did you go out on your own?


Larry Fretzin  [10:13]

Well, the firm split up, they broke up, and I needed to find a place. I was looking for a job at that time. But I ran into a relative of mine by the name of Bernard Harrison, who was a practicing lawyer and also the attorney for the city of Skokie. But he was offered a position with the American Medical Society, and he needed someone to take over his practice. So we, we met we had, we had lunch, and I took over his practice. And that’s how I got started.


Steve Fretzin  [10:42]

And that was it. So then, so now you’ve got a solo practice. You’ve got some working clients, right from Barnard. Yes, right. Then what happened from there? How did you know? How did you continue to grow in and ensure that you have business year after year?


Larry Fretzin  [10:57]

Well, in those days, you couldn’t advertise? You couldn’t publicize. In fact, I could tell you that. After a couple of years out there, we had a group of lawyers who had each each of us had our own office, and we’re all independent, but we were all friends. And we got together and so on. And one of our good friends in the office died. And the one of the Secretary said, Well, we ought to make some comments about that. So we decided to put an ad in the paper just indicating that our friend Stan Lazar with had passed away. And in his honor, we were going to close our offices for one day. And we did that. And then shortly after that, we got a call from the Bar Association, that a complaint had been filed against us, all of us lawyers in that office, or publishing that ad, because it was illegal to publicize yourself in the media. And we were actually all went before the Bar Association, who was a grievance committee organized for that. And they they censured us. And they said, Don’t do it again. And that was the end. So but it was the show, really, that you couldn’t publicize or advertise anything about your practice, including something that was very modest. Yeah, a dead body. So yeah, yeah, not good.


Jordan Ostroff  [12:27]

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Steve Fretzin  [12:50]

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Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [12:54]

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Steve Fretzin  [13:07]

I did not know that. That’s a lot of business going away right there. Let’s cut to the chase. What are you prepared to do for my listeners?


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [13:14]

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Steve Fretzin  [13:28]

Very cool. Thanks. So did you ever think, as an attorney practicing in the you know, 5067? I mean, that was mostly 6070s 80s. Right? Was that your that was your prime years?


Larry Fretzin  [13:42]

Yes. 60s 70s 80s 90s 90?


Steve Fretzin  [13:45]

About 40. Okay, and were you ever concerned as a solo that you wouldn’t have enough business or get enough business or that if you know, because you weren’t relying on a paycheck from an employer? This was your gig. So did you ever either have a lien year or were you ever concerned about you never showed any concern or weakness, at least from you know, from my position as as a kid growing up in the household?


Larry Fretzin  [14:09]

Well, I did there were you know, I didn’t have any source of by which I could communicate with people to make them clients there was we didn’t have any, any anything like you present the attorneys to learn how to get clients. So I relied upon basically my reputation. And other lawyers who know me, and who either maybe oppose me in cases are got the Nomi would refer cases in through my whole career. 40 years. Most of my business came from other lawyers who had cases that they thought were not within their scope of abilities. So that’s, that’s how I got most of my business actually.


Steve Fretzin  [14:52]

Well, but as it turns out, that’s the number one thing I teach. It isn’t actually social media, billboard advertising or anything, Dad It’s relationships. It’s networking, whether you know, knew that you were doing it or not at the time. My you know, understanding is that you built relationships in the courtroom, you built relationships with your clients, you built relationships. I mean, you have a, you had a client that was so passionate about you as their counselor that when he died, he asked you that you do the eulogy. Remember your buddy out in the cable towers? Yeah. And then then we then we went out there to visit and see this guy’s big polo farm. And he I heard him right in front of me, sort of beg you to come back and work for him. You’re like, No, I’m retired, but he was kind of this was the son was like asking you, Larry, can you please come work for me? My dad, you know, couldn’t stop talking about you. So you did a lot of things. Right. that I think led to that word of mouth. I don’t think you give yourself enough credit.


Larry Fretzin  [15:49]

Yeah, he was one of my main big clients. He was a very wealthy electrical contractor, who had like 100 electricians working for him. And, and the i He used to be the attorney on behalf of the attorneys that I office with, where his lawyers and then they manage some litigation, and they turned it over to me. And after I did the litigation for him, and we were successful. He didn’t want to go back to them. And I said to him, you know, I can’t take you away from them. I have to ask him, I asked the other lawyers and they said, No, he wants to be with you. Fine. And so that’s how he became my lawyer. And we did a lot of work together. And he had a very successful relationship. And his son asked me to give a eulogy at his at his funeral. This is


Steve Fretzin  [16:40]

a guy who didn’t die. After he hit like he’s on a polo horse. He just shot a goal made the goal and then like died.


Larry Fretzin  [16:47]

Not only the very simple goal, and he had a heart attack right there. But that won the championship.


Steve Fretzin  [16:52]

Oh my god. That is so crazy. Yeah, I was I didn’t even know that last point. I just thought scoring a goal or whatever out and dying on a horse was like, that’s a pretty good way to go.


Larry Fretzin  [17:02]

They were in a tournament in Canada, in a polo tournament. Okay. And and he, while he hit the wall, made it put it in, he had a heart attack and died in the saddle.


Steve Fretzin  [17:14]

Wow, Listen, I’m not gonna say that’s a terrible way to go. Right. I mean, that’s maybe the best way to go, man. At the peak of your life, you know, scoring a championship goal. I wouldn’t mind doing that. You know, not now. But like, I was older.


Larry Fretzin  [17:28]

You already did. Oh, I had a heart attack. No, you had the you want a championship?


Steve Fretzin  [17:34]

Oh, I didn’t win a championship recently. Yeah, second time club champion and platform tennis at my club. But I did not have a heart attack. I just got super happy and excited for myself.


Larry Fretzin  [17:45]

That’s okay. So


Steve Fretzin  [17:47]

the best relationships. Generally, I tell my clients like the low hanging fruit. And the way to get business is from your clients, they the clients that you’ve done work for the clients that think you’re great. And I also take some good lessons from you. I think you were more than just the lawyer. For many of your clients. I think you were probably more of a counselor consider the area like for the mafia, but not not in the Alina legal way, just in the way that you were more than just a lawyer to a lot of your clients. I think they looked for you for advice on a lot of things. Is that


Larry Fretzin  [18:17]

accurate, but mostly related to law? I mean, I wasn’t a marriage counselor if you


Steve Fretzin  [18:25]

tried your hand and that that didn’t go out so well. But you tried family law, it didn’t work out so well. Like you told me that was the one area you had to get out of?


Larry Fretzin  [18:33]

I got out of that. And I think in the late 80s When I had some really miserable clients and I said I can’t I can’t continue on with this. I gave up handling divorce law, although I didn’t do a lot to start with. But what I what I did, I decided I’m never going to do that again.


Steve Fretzin  [18:51]

Yeah, yeah, I don’t think you had a problem arguing I think it was just the crazy in the emotion that comes out in family law is probably unique. More so than then just straight up litigation. And


Larry Fretzin  [19:02]

well, I can tell you one quick story that I had a client who had he and his wife were separated and they were going to get a divorce and, and they had a pair of twins. And they decided that they would separate the twins, one would have one and one would have the other one. And being a twin myself. I said no, you can’t do that. Either one, we take them. Don’t separate the threads. And my client finally got the twins and it worked out well. But that was the advice that I gave from the heart.


Steve Fretzin  [19:32]

That’s insane. Yeah, that someone would split up the twins or split up any kids like that. That’s crazy, but I don’t think that would go too. Well today. Must have been more like the Wild West back then. Right? No. Okay, well, Hades is a different time too. So I think what we’re talking about here is that while advertising and marketing as it’s done today with social media and TV news, you know all the different stuff that lawyers have the ability to do At the end of the day, it came back to your relationships and the relationships that you developed with your clients with other lawyers. As you mentioned, your largest part of your business was getting referred by other lawyers, which, by the way, it’s still that way today, many of the clients I work with and that I don’t work with, I just know, they will tell me that that’s where they get the majority of their clients. Oh, so know that it’s still a thing. It’s still a thing. So let’s move into the kind of the third, I just did an interview with Larry stable, who talks about the third chapter. And that is retirement. So you, you made a decision. And I wanted to hear kind of a little bit about your mindset about this of retiring at 65. Was that just the thing to do? Was that your dream was that like, did you what, what brought that on? And to make that decision?


Larry Fretzin  [20:46]

Well, I think in the last years, before I retired, I started to realize that the practice of law was not the same as it was when I was younger. The judges, for example, did not know as in many instances, did not know the law as well as I did. And so I, you know, I thought that that was inappropriate. The other lawyers were more interested in their, their money than they did in the case. And they would, they wouldn’t return phone calls. The only time I learned lawyers would start to call me was when they wanted something from me, but when I would call them, they wouldn’t return calls. And I felt that that was inappropriate. And then we love the younger lawyers who really didn’t, didn’t seem to grasp what what the law was, and thought it became kind of a demoralizing situation. And I felt that that point that and the other thing was that, as I got older, many of my clients died, passed away or whatever. And then I in some instances, I was getting their children as clients. But I could see that there wasn’t a lot. My clients that there were coming back because they had died or older and so on. So my practice kind of dwindled a little bit. And, and I really wasn’t enjoying it, like I did in the first 35 years or so. Yeah, that’s, that was basically why I did it.


Steve Fretzin  [22:20]

I think recently, I mean, COVID, I think there’s been a, you know, not widespread, but a lot of people that were considering retirement, and if they were going to work longer in their lifetime, that a lot of them just decided to retire because they realized, you know, they could have, you know, unlimited free time, or they realized they had enough money, or they realized that they didn’t want to put up with you know, irritable judges are nasty, you know, lawyers on the other side of the aisle or whatever it might be. But in reflecting back to that retirement, are you convinced it was the right decision? Have you had some type of remorse that you didn’t stay longer and in muscle it out? Never look back? never


Larry Fretzin  [23:01]

looked back? never looked back? I? I was happy with it with what I did. And I would never go back. I never had any interest in going back.


Steve Fretzin  [23:11]

Well, you you then you spent a lot of time traveling, I think at that point, right? You went on a bunch of really? Yeah, terrific trips. So you’ve got photo albums. Are they still in my house? Or did you take them back? No, I think I’d like you to give give me back. We want those forever, you can crawl in the crawlspace and get them where they are. Okay. Moving right along everybody. What advice do you have for lawyers that are building their law practices today? And you’ve been aware of I mean, you keep on top of like, what’s going on and law to some degree and, you know, you know, things, you know, in some ways, they’ve gotten a lot better in some ways, maybe not. But what advice do you have for lawyers that are they’re looking to build a practice today?


Larry Fretzin  [23:50]

Well, I think, I guess the important thing is to make a lot of friends, work hard on the cases that you have. So you can have good rapport with the court and be successful in your cases. When you win your cases, you have more like, the more likelihood the people involved will come back to you, especially other lawyers. Who said, Well, you know, I think I’ll, I’d like to use him because he’s, he knows what he’s doing. So that’s, that’s how that worked. Okay. And this is a little,


Steve Fretzin  [24:27]

maybe more on the personal side with you and I but I mean, were you ever disappointed that none of your children went into law? Was that something that you had wanted for one of us, we there’s three of us, my brother and sister.


Larry Fretzin  [24:38]

That’s not a source of disappointment. It’s actually I’m very pleased with how you guys turned out. But I something that I joke about my brother had a it was a physician and he had two of his children and his three became doctors in the same day. It was him. Yeah, whereas, but I’m, I’m happy to see that you work with lawyers and how lawyers all the time. So, in a sense, you’re a lawyer’s lawyer.


Steve Fretzin  [25:04]

I’m a lawyer’s lawyer. Well, it’s, it’s interesting that, you know, I spend my every day all day working with lawyers and helping them grow their law practices and advising them. And I don’t think I really understood the nobility of the of the profession, I don’t think I really understood even when I’d look at you, and I go to the office with you and bring your kid day and all that, you know, really how important of a job it is, how important of a career it is, and how it how it can really change the world if it’s done properly and with with thought, and I get to work with some of the smartest, nicest best lawyers. In fact, I don’t work with any of the bad ones, because I don’t have to number one, and number two is because they know everything already. Just ask them. So what are they gonna hire me for? They know everything already. So I think it’s great. And it has given us some stuff to talk about. And now we’ve got this podcast together, we can we can listen to that together and reminisce. Um, I guess my final question to you is, you know, again, if if, you know, if you had the chance to do it all over again, if you could choose any profession, any life for yourself, Would you do it the same way? Or would you have done it differently? Would you become a judge maybe versus stay a lawyer? Would you? Was there anything that you would have changed anything my professional career?


Larry Fretzin  [26:18]

Well, you know, it’ll, they had an arbitration system in Cook County court system, and I became an arbitrator for a number of cases. And I really enjoyed doing that. And I know that just to give you one example, I had a case of a little old African American lady who was in an accident. I accident was the other person’s fault that went to arbitration. And she came in, she’s a nice little lady. And then the insurance company said, you know, they defended the No. And then what happened was she when I when she was asked about, she didn’t have a lawyer representing her, but she said, just told me what happened, and so on. And I believe that it was very credible. And then she said, Well, you Where are your bills, your medical bills that you are claiming result of your injuries. And she’s I don’t have any medical bills. So at that point, I reckon I realized that this lovely lady was not interested in money so much as being advised that she had one she had, she wasn’t her fault. So I took a look, I was always the chairman of our arbitration group, they always wanted me to be chair. So as far as I liked it, so I came up with a solution to the problem. I said there. Well, you know, you you have not supported your case, sufficiently make a case, but I’m not award the case to you, and give you a $1. And I award you $1. And so she went away happy. And insurance company went away. And because they had $1, that, and so I felt like almost on the list. I divided the baby in half. Yeah. So that was one of the pleasant things that I would have liked to be and I continued to be an arbitrator, even after I retired. Until no longer I needed a lawyer. So


Steve Fretzin  [28:17]

Well, I always think back and wonder, you know, I know, you were successful, and you’re you re retired with, you know, retirement, you know, money in the bank, and you don’t have any kind of issues there. But I always wonder if I had met you back in the day, and I had a chance to work with you. And, and, you know, not necessarily how much better you would have done, but I think there would have been some things we could have cleaned up and, and maybe, you know, focused on or, you know, put a pinpoint on to, you know, do even better, like, you know whether that was your rate structure, whether that was how you were networking, you mean you were doing it just naturally, you were just naturally a business developer or naturally a relationship guy. But it wasn’t with thought like today lawyers have to think about how do I build relationships? How do I get in front of clients? How do I do these things? And back in the day, you were just sort of doing it naturally. And there wasn’t a lot. I don’t think a lot of forethought about it.


Larry Fretzin  [29:10]

That’s right. Okay. I agree. Okay.


Steve Fretzin  [29:12]

All right. I just wanted you to agree. Anyway, and you’re leaving all your inheritance to me and not my siblings?


Larry Fretzin  [29:18]



Steve Fretzin  [29:20]

agree. No. Okay. All right. I was trying for it. Anyway. Dad, I want to thank you for being on the show. This has been a treat for me, and hopefully you’ve had a chance to, you know, air out all your grievances about your son. Now, not yet. Not yet. You’re gonna What are you waiting for? You’ll have to have an hour. Again, a separate show of grievances against your terrible teenage son who drove you nuts and eventually beat you at ping pong. So anyway, and just real quick before we wrap up everybody you know, we always do a segment called Game Changing books. Well, since today’s my 200th episode, and I brought my dad on the show. Guess what I’ve got for Game Changing books. I’m going to list them out in order that they were written number one sales Free selling my number one book. Number two, the attorneys networking handbook. Number two, number three, the ambitious attorney and finally the one that just received international bestseller status. legal business development isn’t rocket science. So those are game changing books. Do you ever think you’d have a son that was an author? Now? Never Never. Did you ever think I would graduate college? Consider our past


Larry Fretzin  [30:27]

in the in the paternity at all. At Illinois State. Oh, my God. All right. Well, there’s


Steve Fretzin  [30:35]

some information. Listen, your big thing to me was, when are you going to get grow up and take things seriously? When are you going to stop goofing around? Well, I got the rest of my life for that. Well, day, guess what it worked out. Okay. Thanks for the advice. Anyway, I wish my teenager would listen to advice, you know, but I guess I didn’t listen. He doesn’t listen. And you know, the list goes on. Anyway. Alright, anyway, it’s never too late. All right. Well, listen, I appreciate you being on the show. And listen, you’re a great dad and a great grandfather and I appreciate you and I appreciate it. You know, listen to all your stories over these years of, of the successful law practice and everybody. So Alright, before we get to the wrap up, we good.


Larry Fretzin  [31:15]

Well, I appreciate you, you appreciate me. And I’d like you to show that by getting me my volumes of my


Steve Fretzin  [31:23]

book, my you want your photo app? Is that okay? All right. I gotta be my you know what I’m gonna have to do. I’m gonna have to ask my wife to go in the crawlspace because I can’t.


Larry Fretzin  [31:31]

Dan would be a wonderful Father’s Day. Give boy, my albums back.


Steve Fretzin  [31:36]

All right, we’ll see about that. Okay, we’ll see how that goes. All right, everybody, thank you for spending some time with my pops and myself today on be that lawyer. You know, listen, sometimes sometimes you gotta you got to go off the beaten path and do something different and well, it’s 200 episodes, I figured I could do it and who better than my pops to share some of his war stories and talk about what a great lawyer he was and talk about his experiences and practicing law for all those years. So listen, everybody be well be safe. Take care. We’ll talk again soon.


Narrator  [32:10]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes