Mari Ribeiro: Unique Branding for Your Law Firm

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Mari Ribeiro discuss:

  • Gaining a competitive edge with your brand.
  • Pros and cons of naming your firm something other than your name.
  • Growing and expanding your brand.
  • Keeping your brand relevant and sustainable.

Key Takeaways:

  • Your brand speaks to the type of service you are giving. Naming your firm allows you an opportunity to stand out and get noticed in a way beyond being a lawyer.
  • Branding can help your firm to look fresh, new, and exciting – people are drawn to that!
  • Your brand is what will carry the reputation of your firm.
  • Be curious and be willing to get feedback from others about what they experience when they think of your brand.

“Gone are the days where you are attracting clients and business just because you hang your shingle… this gives an opportunity for people to show up through their brand, and really help lawyers stand out with what it is that they do, and the unique way in which they do it.” —  Mari Ribeiro

Connect with Mari Ribeiro:  





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LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.



Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.



brand, lawyer, people, clients, law firm, bob jones, miami, logo, business, firm, website, nice, reputation, colors, called, unique, marketing, stay, mila, palm tree


Narrator, Mari Ribeiro, Steve Fretzin


Mari Ribeiro  [00:00]

Nowadays everyone pretty much assumes that you are competent because you hold a you know, a bar license. And so that’s really given an opportunity for people to show up through their brand and really helping lawyers stand out with what it is that they do and the unique way in which they do it.


Narrator  [00:22]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.


Steve Fretzin  [00:46]

Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I hope you’re having a fabulous day. I’m having a great day I was feeling a little bit tired, a little sluggish. Did a little transcendental meditation, and 20 minutes later, I’m like, shot out of a cannon. So here we go. Ready to have some fun, ready to give you some education on business development, marketing, branding, best practices, right at Fretzin. We’re all about helping that lawyer to learn how to grow that law practice. So today is no different. I have a really cool guest and I am going to screw up her last name, no doubt about it. She’s the principal at Roberto law firm. I just screwed that up. Mayor Murray did my house last night giving


Mari Ribeiro  [01:27]

too bad not too bad. Rivero Mario? E for effort. Nice job.


Steve Fretzin  [01:34]

Okay. I’ll take it. I’ll take the. So you and I had just a tremendous conversation ahead of this taping. And, but I’d love for you to share your background and how you came to be with my audience. And then once we get through that, we’re gonna just rock and roll with some really good questions.


Mari Ribeiro  [01:52]

Awesome. Yeah. So first, thank you so much for the invitation to be on here. I love any opportunity to get to talk to other attorneys just because I kind of get to talk to them about things that usually other lawyers aren’t talking to them about. So this is awesome opportunity. So like you mentioned, my name is Attorney Mari Ribeiro, I am a trademark lawyer, how did I come to be a trademark lawyer, I’m definitely not necessarily by choice with having my own law firm. So I have a background in litigation got laid off from my first firm, went to another firm where I was doing real estate transactions got laid off of there. And I said, Hmm, I’m seeing a pattern here. And I think, I think maybe that if I want to have job security, I might need to create it myself. So I was almost forced into opening up my own law firm. And I’ve been practicing for about five years now on my own. And I exclusively work in trademark law. So I focus only on trademark registrations and helping brand owners and business owners make money off of their brands. So that’s pretty much my, my my spiel on what I do. Now.


Steve Fretzin  [02:59]

That’s your deal. But you but you do so much more. Because you’re not just building your law practice, you’re really helping lawyers figure out how to brand themselves. And that’s sort of our topic today is really getting into the, into the weeds on that. And so what are you just like, as a trademark attorney, and as someone who helps helps, you know, other businesses and lawyers brand themselves? What are what are some of the struggles and challenges that lawyers have with getting their name out there and getting branded


Mari Ribeiro  [03:29]

store. So a lot of my clients are actually other attorneys that are solos, and you know, they kind of have a similar story and a similar path to me of, you know, how they came to be a solo lawyer. And, you know, gone are the days where you are attracting clients and business just because you hang your shingle. And just because you have es que at the end of your name, you know, nowadays everyone pretty much assumes that you are competent, because you hold a you know, a bar license. And so that’s really given an opportunity for people to show up through their brand and really helping lawyers stand out with what it is that they do, and the unique way in which they do it. It’s really communicated, you know, through their branding and through, you know, their logo and how people perceive you know, their website when they go and visit their website, and what colors are the clients seeing? How does the client feel when they are getting to experience you know, the logo of the of the, of the attorney and the law firm? And so, you know, I’ve really found that the challenge has been where a lot of us come from that traditional like, suit and tie very much structured and very much formal type of way that people perceive lawyers to be in a very serious and very square type of way. And more and more especially as we’re seeing younger lawyers, you know, get into To the industry, they’re moving away from that. And really, because it’s been my experience that people are just, they really want to get to know the lawyer, they really want to know who is behind the law firm and who’s behind, you know, the suit and tie and the desk and the door and the shingle, they, they kind of want a glimpse of who you are. Because at the end of the day, we lawyers are in the customer service industry, you know, it really is how we serve our clients. And if you strip away all the formalities and all the legalese, and, you know, just, you really take a look at what it is that we’re doing, people are buying a piece of us people are actually buying into who you are, and how you talk to them, and how you treat them and how you’re checking in with them. And that really stands out a lot. And it’s something so simple, that can really give you a competitive edge. And if lawyers can find a way to translate that into their brand, then it does give them a better invitation for people wanting to not just work with them, but also refer to them as well, because they have such a unique brand that’s going to kind of hint at what can the client expect to experience when they actually hire this firm, and the easiest way to find that out is by looking at their brand.


Steve Fretzin  [06:20]

Alright, so I’m gonna throw a, I’m gonna throw a curveball at you. And this isn’t, this isn’t a right or wrong, it’s your opinion. And I’ll give mine. So an individual solo lawyer, Bob Jones, okay. hangs a shingle, and maybe is in business for a couple of years. Is the person better off being Bob Jones, Esquire, and maybe having some form of, you know, scales or logo or something next to his or his name? Or is he better off coming up with like a name like an actual trademark name, let’s say he does estate planning, it’s called the state planning plus, or estate planning, or Ross or whatever? I’m making that up. But you see, like, there’s a lot, there’s some people that go with the street name, and there’s some people that want to come up with like a name for their firm. And what’s the pros and cons? Yeah, so


Mari Ribeiro  [07:11]

the the the pro would be is if you your legal name that you’re using, you know, Bob, what was his last name,


Steve Fretzin  [07:18]

Jones Street, Bob


Mari Ribeiro  [07:19]

Jones straightforward, if he is really well known, so he is a famous Bob Jones, I say use Bob Jones, if that is what people are going to, that’s what people are going to use to actually recognize you because they already recognize you, I say monetize Bob Jones. But most of us aren’t really famous. And not yet, you know, we don’t really have that well known, you know, name. And so, you know, like I was kind of saying with Gone are the days are you know, that really square type of formality. And that kind of falls in line with the Bob Jones, PA, you know, Bob Jones law firm. So unless people already really know and like, not just know him, but like Bob Jones and like his name, then there really isn’t much weight to it. And so I’ve seen that there’s definitely a benefit to coming up with, you know, those trade names or something that’s going to again, just kind of hint at what can the client expect when they actually hire you versus your competitor? Right, because let’s just be honest, you know, the trademark is a trademark is a trademark? Well, you know, a personal injury case is a personal injury case, it was personal injury case. A probate is a probate of the probate, but what can you what can your brand, communicate that you do something a little bit different, that, you know, your your competitor isn’t really doing? And it’s the same way with any business, you know? What name can you use to just invite people in and and kind of, you know, have a little guess of what, what is it like working with you? What kind of what can you say about the reputation or the type of service that you offer, or how quick you are, or how competent you are, or anything like that it really does speak to the type of service that you’re going to be giving. And, again, it’s, it allows you some freedom to show up as a unique attorney, you know, it gives you an opportunity to stand out. So I would definitely say in my humble opinion, that if there’s a way for you to kind of use those trade names and and get something out there that has to do with the brand, as opposed to the actual lawyer, like who was the one actually providing the legal services, then I say, you know, go with a brand for sure.


Steve Fretzin  [09:38]

Yeah. And so like, for example, I’ve got a client who him and his partner together, they were using sort of their initials for their brand and it really wasn’t very memorable or noticeable and maybe even negative because I think it might have been SS, which is maybe not the best you want to put out there and they just changed it. Or he just changed it to Whoo, you know, a really cool name with a really cool logo, and it just stands out. It’s unique for real estate, and I’m just not gonna get into who it is and all that. But it really, to me, it totally sets the tone for the kind of businesses in the kinds of people he’s helping, you know, what his what his, you know, brand would be. And it’s very memorable versus maybe his name, which is not, yeah,


Mari Ribeiro  [10:25]

yeah, and you hit him a good point to where, you know, you mentioned the scales of justice next to, you know, the the law firms name, or maybe there’s, you know, some books or the Statue of Liberty, you know, all these things that are just, frankly, they’re really stale, and I might upset some of your listeners. You know, and, and so do so many other attorneys, right. And so that’s why it becomes so stale. And that’s the epitome of what the branding is supposed to be what you were mentioning, what’s your colleague, like, it just looks fresh and full of life. And at the end of the day, if there’s something fresh and new and exciting consumers like that, people like that they, they don’t really get excited when they see, you know, law books, or the scales are the Statute of Liberty, because it’s just been so overly used in our industry. So I really try to encourage my clients, let’s step away for from that that’s been used enough. Let’s see what else we can kind of come up with and get creative with.


Steve Fretzin  [11:27]

Yeah, and by the way, if you’re listening to this, the equivalent, the equivalency would be having three white guys on your homepage of your website, or a skyline of your city. Unless you’re in real estate, then maybe it’s okay. But like, these are things that are becoming very outdated. So we really need to step up. Look, it’s 2021. Let’s get with it. Let’s start getting creative. And that’s a big part of brand building, right? Your creativity and open mindedness,


Mari Ribeiro  [11:53]

right and thinking like a brand, you know, thinking that your law firm is really a brand. Just because, you know, it just lets you stand out. And like I said, there’s just so many people doing exactly what you do, how can you tell your client, Hey, pick me over that other guy or that other gal, you know, that’s doing exactly what I’m doing. And the first way to do that is inviting them with a fresh brand.


Steve Fretzin  [12:21]

Alright, so let’s take a deeper dive into that. So I’m a lawyer, I’m not a lawyer. But let’s say I’m a lawyer, and I’m looking to get that message out, I’m looking to brand myself, I’m looking to to really get get my name elevated in the marketplace. What are some things that you advise on? And that you that you talk with your lawyer clients about? With regards to growing their brand? And getting, you know, really building that up?


Mari Ribeiro  [12:48]

Yeah, well, first, you know, it’s really understanding that the brand is what’s going to carry the reputation of the firm. And, you know, it’s the same thing where lawyers, we’re very much concerned with our reputation, not just with our clients, but especially with our colleagues. So what you know, what words can you add to your trade name, or to your business name, that’s going to speak on your reputation, that is something that could really go a long way, not just for your potential clients and your existing clients, but also for your referral partners, you know, they’re going to want to see what is it that you are insinuating? When you’re adding these really cool terms and your business name or your or your trade name, that’s going to make them feel confident, right, and in sending business your way. So definitely, you know, coming up with with unique names and staying away from the stale overly used terms, you know, if you can avoid obviously saying law firm, you know, get rid of it, if you can avoid saying partners get rid of it, if there are just words that are just so commonly used in our industry, just get rid of it altogether. And by the way, these are not unique to the legal field, you know, it’s really unique. It’s, it goes across the board in every industry. So if you’re in the technology space, you don’t want to use the word tech in your company name, just because it’s so obvious of what it is that you’re doing that you lose that that sensation of the uniqueness. So staying away from stale, overly used terms is definitely like the the first, the first thing that I usually encourage my clients to stay away from,


Steve Fretzin  [14:28]

but what are then so what would be some examples of some strong reputation based words? Is it yours that you’ve been practicing? Is it about the number of cases you’ve won, or the dollars that you’ve collected for your clients? I mean, what when you say that I’m just trying to put into perspective, like what you’re talking about? Exactly.


Mari Ribeiro  [14:46]

Yeah. So it’s not really, you know, tooting your own horn. It’s not really what I mean. Because if you really think of it from a marketing perspective, does it build credit credibility? Yeah, absolutely. But if We’re talking to a client, let’s say in personal injury and they’re hurting, you know, are they really going to base their decision on the fact that you have 10? More 10 more years of experience from someone else? Probably not, they’re probably going to make their decision based on how is that they perceive you? So it’s, it’s, it’s a hard kind of question to answer just because there is no particular one answer of okay, yes, do this and don’t do this, it’s really going to be about the overall theme of what, how is this going to be perceived by your target audience? You know, what is it that they’re going to be looking for when they are in the situation that they’re in? And so most of the times, it could be result oriented? Right. So, you know, there’s, there’s a firm that I know, that has to do with quick solutions, right? And they’re in the business, business, corporate space, right? So they’re corporate transactions. So they’re, they’re coming up with proactive solutions before, you know, they have to go to litigation or to avoid litigation. So, you know, finding that nice sweet spot of what it is that you are going to do for the client, what is it you’re looking to do for the client really result kind of goal oriented? And how you do it, finding those terms that kind of loop into your to your brand? Or is really going to be helpful? Years of experience? I don’t know, I’m not really moved by that, are you?


Steve Fretzin  [16:36]

I don’t think I’m no think years of I mean, obviously, if you’re only a few years in, you want to totally avoid it. But if you’re 50 years, and maybe you want to avoid that, too. And again, maybe anything in the middle, but I think I think maybe they’re looking at so like let’s say I’m looking for an estate planning attorney, and yes, I want a referral. I don’t want to just go online, if I can help it. But when someone tells me Oh, yeah, they specialize in X, that’s maybe something that’s important to me, or maybe it’s that they’re, you know, incredibly personable and understanding. And maybe then I look at their website, and I see imagery that demonstrates that type of compassion, or that type of understanding. And it works within their logo or their name, like that might be all the things that sort of work for me in my in my decision making abilities, oh, yeah, I’m gonna reach out in call that person


Mari Ribeiro  [17:32]

totally, and you actually touch on a good point to where it’s not just one thing, and that’s going to be considered the brand, it’s really the overall feeling, and the overall visual and the overall words and the overall colors, all of it plays into the brand. So, you know, even if you pick one word, if there’s nothing else that goes into it, then is it really communicating what you’re trying to communicate, but then they put it together with the colors that you choose for your firm, and you put it together with a really cool slogan, you know, if it’s, if it’s also you know, how user friendly the website is, you know, all of it speaks to the brand identity of that firm, and what your client is, is going to likely get when they hire you.


Steve Fretzin  [18:16]

So I think I think one thing that might be an important thing for people to consider and lawyers to consider is, what are your prospective clients really looking for? What’s important to them? What’s going to make the difference between them reaching out or not reaching out? Is it ease of connecting, connecting with you? Is it responsiveness is it that you know, again, you’ve got you know, a level of understanding or expertise in a particular space or you’re branding yourself as the top guy like I literally wrote the book on X and that’s how people know you because you’re the guy who wrote the book or wrote the law so that could those are bunch of things but but again, if that isn’t resonating in your logo, your name your your all the marketing that you’re putting out then that maybe you’re not doing a proper service for yourself.


Mari Ribeiro  [19:06]

Totally Yeah, and think of all the business that you might be missing out on too.


Steve Fretzin  [19:10]

Well yeah, we don’t want to do that. So you’ve got you know reputation and the words around it you mentioned you may be coming up with some unique names like for the before for the law practice. That could be another element of what sort of separates you from the pack you’re not just you know, Smith Johnson and Williamson. You know, it’s it there’s a name that represents what you do. And it makes it very clear what you do and puts you separates you from the pack. Anything else that jumps out at you? Mari is that relates to branding?


Mari Ribeiro  [19:45]

Yeah, add some colors in there. Some colors are really nicely connected to psychology. And these are just something you know small things that you can do on a quick Google searches. What does the color green really translate? Usually it means healing. Do what does the color blue usually translate to, it means trust. So you know, adding some color that really ties in nicely to the area of law that you practice in. And then also throw some cool designs in there, you know. So in my, in my logo, I have a palm tree, you know,


Steve Fretzin  [20:20]

I love your logo, your thank you. Cool.


Mari Ribeiro  [20:22]

I love my logo, too. I went through three different designers because they started showing me the scale. And they started showing me the Statue of Liberty, like they’re not getting it. So you know, and I really chose something colorful, because I like to think of myself as a very colorful personality. And then I picked the palm tree, because I’m In Miami, and it’s tropical, and it’s fun, I do something that is cool and fun. So how could I add that into my logo? But yeah, if you could throw some kind of designs in there, you know, something in the backdrop or, or, you know, any kind of little figure that’s really going to give your give your brand a visual that’s going to help your clients say, oh, yeah, I recognize that this is the only firm that has a palm tree and the are of her name. So throwing in designs is also really helpful, too.


Steve Fretzin  [21:17]

Nice. Nice. I like it. So when it comes to building a brand standing out, we’ve gone through kind of a number of different ideas there. How do people keep their brand relevant? How do they keep it sustainable? Over a career over 10 years? 20 years? Etc?


Mari Ribeiro  [21:34]

That’s a great question. A lot of it has to do with top of mind awareness. So making sure that you’re visible and you’re consistently visible, even sometimes I struggle with this, because you always have to be posting on LinkedIn, social media, your website with blogs, and photos. So just making sure that you are consistently in front of not just your target audience, but also your referral partners. You know, I’m pretty sure I’m not unique in the sense where a lot of my clients are referred to me, so I make sure that I am staying visible in front of my referral partner so that they think of me. So you know, that’s, that’s definitely something that is paramount, and making sure that you have that longevity. And then also, you know, kind of looking at your brand long term is, you know, knowing when it’s time for you to rebrand and to give it a nice little facelift, when it’s just like, Yeah, this isn’t really speaking, the way it used to, you know, it’s not really communicating the right idea the way it used to, or maybe your your reputation has changed, maybe your identity, the company’s identity has changed. You know, the longer we’re in practice, the wires, the Wiser we get. So how can we incorporate that when it’s the right time to rebrand so you’re not being so shackled to your own brand that you don’t give it a nice little touch up every now and then.


Steve Fretzin  [23:02]

And so some of the people in listening to this may may have heard me say this before, but you know, my brand was before I started working with attorneys was sales results, Inc, with a big green arrow going up like that. And it was awesome. And I loved it. And for entrepreneurs, it was amazing. started specializing and working with attorneys. Not so amazing. Right? Sales, scary results, scary arrow going up really scary. So, you know, I didn’t think much of it at the time. But yeah, I got enough enough people giving me feedback. And enough enough lawyers that were feeling uncomfortable carrying my materials around with them that I said, You know what, let’s just make this simple. I’m the business I will always be the business. That’s okay. So why not just me, my name is unique. It’s not Jones, it’s Fretzin. There’s only 30 of us in the world or whatever. So it’s not like there’s a lot of them. So let’s let’s make that the brand. I can always put what I do or something underneath it, obviously came up with be that lawyer, which is the name of my column in the Chicago Daily law bulletin, the name of my podcast, and it’s, you know, involved in all the different marketing elements that I have. So you can still use your name and continue to develop your brand around that but using and leveraging other elements that come into it, right. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, absolutely. For sure. Just check it but but the the name, it’s just being a little softer, and less salesy, which again, I actually teach sales, free selling, so I’m actually teaching the opposite of sales. Yet the name of my company, you know, was was really, you know, kind of overpowering, and maybe too aggressive. Right? Yeah. So I


Mari Ribeiro  [24:46]

what was really great is that you actually asked for feedback that is really awesome as a business owner, not just for lawyers, but any business owner. But inviting that feedback and just seeing because a lot At times, what we think we’re saying, our brand, the message isn’t actually being received that way. And so inviting the feedback, you know, what is it that you think about my brand? What does it say to you? What was your first impression when you saw this? You know, and just being curious around what people are resonating with, when they experience your brand can really give you some nice insight on whether or not you need to shift?


Steve Fretzin  [25:24]

Yeah, and there’s, you know, you can a B test, if you’ve got a logo, or two or three that you think are good, but you’re not sure what’s going to resonate, send it out to 10, or 15, or 20. clients see what they have to say, you know, get feedback from friends and family. And, you know, if it all ends up being equal, then then you know, it’s not that big a deal. If everybody’s leaning towards one, well, then you’ve got your answer there, too. And most lawyers think it’s about them and what they think of the name, the logo, the imagery. And actually, it’s not, you know, it’s about the prospective client. It’s about the strategic partner, it’s about the audience, it’s Who are you, who you marketing to? They’re the ones that you should care about what they think about your brand. Now, what you think,


Mari Ribeiro  [26:06]

I think it’s 5050, to be honest, I think, you know, because it’s called a brand identity for a reason. So it is identifying me it is identifying my company, but it’s also going to be whether or not somebody else wants to be associated with that identity. So I do think I do think there’s a nice happy medium in between there, because it does speak to, you know, again, what kind of service I’m going to be giving, but it also should speak to, is that going to be positively received by who I’m trying to attract. So it’s, it’s both of that. Okay,


Steve Fretzin  [26:42]

all right. Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, you certainly have to be comfortable and happy with what you’re putting out there. You don’t want to put something out there you hate and that doesn’t represent you, because people like it. That’s that sort of a fake, you know, fake front. So I think if there’s a happy medium to your point, and I really appreciate that, and that’s a good place to kind of kind of wrap up, you know, the chat and I think this of a lot of great tips and ideas here on names and reputation and color and visibility and rebranding, so you’ve kind of touched you know, on the on the whole cycle of it. Let’s move to the next segment, the last segment of the show, which is called the three best of and you’re in Miami, right?


Mari Ribeiro  [27:23]

Yeah, absolutely. Let’s get into it. All right. So


Steve Fretzin  [27:26]

what’s your favorite restaurant in Miami? Where should we find going out of Miami? You gotta go to this one place. What is it?


Mari Ribeiro  [27:33]

So I am totally in love with this one restaurant called Mila. And I L A, it’s actually on Miami Beach. Lincoln Road. It’s a beautiful rooftop Asian fusion kind of restaurant. It is spectacular than for brunch. I’ve been for dinner. It is amazing, great service. The views are great. I mean, they have this really cool place where you can sit in like it’s a table like in the middle of what looks like a little fish pond. It’s really cool and lots of greenery you’re outdoors it’s an the food is to die for. So Wow. Very highly recommended. And


Steve Fretzin  [28:10]

I may come to Miami just visit you and eat there. But oh, that sounds good. Sounds amazing. And then if I am coming to Miami outside of going to Mila what else what’s like I know there’s beaches but like what should what like I’m going to Miami this is what you need to do. This is what you need to see.


Mari Ribeiro  [28:27]

So in addition to the beaches, we have this really cool little park called South Point Park, which is this the South is tips if anything works out this most southern, Southern southern There we go. And I’m I am Southern, I’m from the south. The most southern tip of where you can go in the beach, they have a beautiful pier, you can actually access the ocean there as well. And you also get to see from the port, a lot of the cruise ships, you know, coming in or going out. And then if you go a little bit south of that, or I’m sorry, a little inland of that there’s a beautiful park where you just see people, you know, having fun tossing footballs around, they’re doing yoga, they’re doing all they’re doing like tightrope balancing so it’s a very nice place to like go and people watch have a walk yourself and just kind of sit underneath the palm tree and enjoy. You know the breeze.


Steve Fretzin  [29:22]

Very cool, very cool and is that what people in Miami are up to is that you’re doing tight rope walking and throwing frisbee frisbees to dogs. What what are some of the things that people in Miami are up to these days?


Mari Ribeiro  [29:35]

Yeah, so you know, because we’re such an outdoorsy type of community. A lot of people are doing, you know, these yoga type of retreats and I’m a yogi myself, so I tend to kind of lean towards these types of events, but they’re awesome where you can you know, host yoga events. There’s like these really cool like ecstatic dance type of events that are happening to I went to Do a little cacao ceremony that was over and the park is well, so just very, very much. You know outdoorsy, relaxed. There’s meditation there as well, too. So I’ve noticed that there’s a, you know, you’re mentioned the meditation this morning. There’s I’m sorry, the beginning of our podcast. And you know, there’s a lot of movement towards that mindfulness type of experience, especially when you can do it outdoors. So that’s kind of what I’ve noticed has grown a lot in Miami.


Steve Fretzin  [30:26]

Yeah, very cool. Very cool. Well, I’m in I’m a big west, west golf side, Florida, visitor, because that’s where my dad has a condo, but I think I’m gonna have to if next time I go down, I’m gonna have to shoot over and hit Miami. Visit you some of the MILA and in my friend, Frank Ramos, who’s down there.


Mari Ribeiro  [30:49]

I actually think I do his name. Very familiar. Yeah, I think I do know Frank.


Steve Fretzin  [30:55]

That’s super cool guy. But he’s got he’s got a run bar waiting for me. I just got to get down there. Oh, yeah. Anyway, listen, thank you so much for being on the show and sharing your wisdom and it’s just you’re delightful. And this just was a lot of fun to do. So thanks.


Mari Ribeiro  [31:08]

Thanks so much for you know the opportunity to come and speak on your podcast. I really appreciate it. Can we see you in Miami?


Steve Fretzin  [31:14]

There we go. There we go. I’m gonna head down at some point soon. Listen, everybody couple a couple of good takeaways today. That’s that’s the key 30 minutes get a couple takeaways and move on with your day. But listen, it’s all about being that lawyer someone who’s confident organized a skilled Rainmaker. Hope you hope you’re doing well and stay safe and stay stay alive right. Stay consistent with your marketing don’t stop don’t stop. Alright everybody, be well toxin.


Narrator  [31:47]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes