Mo Lilienthal: Humanized Social Media to Make Connections and Build Your Business

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Mo Lilienthal discuss:

  • Separating yourself from the others in your field.
  • Developing content to humanize yourself.
  • Getting started on social media.
  • Ways to get introductions and connect with those you may not have access to otherwise.

Key Takeaways:

  • Social media is an equalizer for smaller firms. It is a way to build a network and stand out in your field.
  • Each social media channel has its own niche. Find what is comfortable for you and the mix of personal and professional that works best for you.
  • It’s not what you post, it’s the way you angle it and direct it.
  • If you’re not doing business development, you’re getting left behind.

“Give yourself permission to share who you are.” —  Mo Lilienthal

Connect with Mo Lilienthal:  








Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.



Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.



people, lawyer, share, posting, content, business, son, legal, firm, steve, mo, podcast, talk, social media, big, alabama, listening, personal, tips, community


Mo Lilienthal, Narrator, Steve Fretzin


Mo Lilienthal  [00:00]

If I come at you and I connect about something on a personal level as a dad or is about school or about some volunteer organization that I work at, then we make that connection. And if you also know based upon following me and interaction that I’m also a lawyer, then you’re going to trust me. So you’re going to reach out to me when you have a legal


Narrator  [00:23]

you’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for drilling a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.


Steve Fretzin  [00:45]

Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. This is Steve Fretzin. As you know, and man I tell you what, I was fired out of a cannon this morning and I am ready to go. I am excited about working with my clients today doing presentations, networking, it’s just a never ending nonstop party, and obviously want to spend some time with you and help you with your business development, marketing content, etc. And I’ve got a guy who’s just sort of mastered this. He’s the host of the most show. He’s an attorney over at Martinson, and Beason social media kind of Guru. And I’d like to introduce you to moe Leland. Thol. How’s it going, Moe?


Mo Lilienthal  [01:18]

Hey, Steve, man, thanks so much for having me on. I’m loving what you’re doing with your show. And I always enjoy talking, marketing and sharp and hit everything with people and lawyers around the country so I can learn and grow and share what I’m doing with other lawyers that has been successful for me to try to help them grow their practice.


Steve Fretzin  [01:35]

Yeah, well, that’s the topic today and really getting into the weeds with you. How badly did I screw up your name? It’s Lilienthal.


Mo Lilienthal  [01:41]

Yeah. Lilienthal that’s it. But you know, it’s not the first and won’t be the last and so much easier.


Steve Fretzin  [01:46]

Yeah, you know, my last name Fretzin people mess up sometimes not all the time sometimes. And back in the day, I used to always say, you know, like certs with rats, and anyone under 35 doesn’t know what that means. But that was, I guess an ingredient in certs breath mints. And so that’s how I kind of help people out. But anyway, on to bigger and better things. No one really needed to know that or hear that, I guess. But anyway, give us a little background because you’ve got an interesting one and even just how you got you know, from being a lawyer to driving content and starting the most show.


Mo Lilienthal  [02:14]

Yes, I grew up here in Alabama moved around the various talents here as I was younger and really ended up in the majority of my childhood grew up in a small rural town in West Alabama, if everybody knows where the University of Tuscaloosa University Alabama is in Tuscaloosa. It’s just west of there. And it’s a one stoplight town kind of thing and a little one eye hospital loved it. And you know, it’s just a really small setting was great, great environment, a lot of great people, you know, like a lot of Southerners do I grew up playing sports and you know, sports Friday nights back home where the big night you know, blessed to have had a good time playing football in high school and once a championship my senior so that’s kind of my you know, Uncle Rico moment there and, and went on to Maryville College in East Tennessee, small liberal arts school up there and play football out there and got a double major in biology and political science, like a lot of folks thought I might first want to go back and teach and coach and did and then I kind of decided to go in a different direction, going to law school, and then went to law school at Stanford University, Criminal Law School of Law. And then I had been practicing 18 years now. And so the majority of my practice now, or pretty much all my practice DVS personal injury work.


Steve Fretzin  [03:19]

Yeah. And then was there like a tipping point or moment or where you realize, you know, as a lawyer, you know, I’ve got to start separating myself, I’ve got to start doing something different, or just getting interested in the business development, marketing side of things.


Mo Lilienthal  [03:32]

But the business of marketing side has always been really interesting to me and do I mean, I love working the cases up and getting good results in helping people but I love meeting people. And I love being able to do something and see an end result and so that there’s several levels to that, right. First of all, you can be the greatest lawyer in the world. But if you don’t have cases to work, you’re not doing anything in Alabama, you know, we have a very competitive legal environment. I think there’s over 18, maybe 19,000 lawyers in Alabama. And so a lot of the bigger players in the space that I practice in the personal injury space, have now come to town we have the Morgan and Morgan’s of the world, with Alex and mission hours of the world and a lot of more regional players in our market. And everybody seems to be regurgitating the same type of material interact, need to check if you’ve been a car wreck, here’s what you do and do that this and there’s some place for some of that. I think you need to have some information on FAQ stuff out there. But it just came to a point that how can I separate myself from others, to be someone that people get to know why I can trust that when they have something happened in their life a legal need? I’m the first person they think about and so for me competitively social media was a playing ground that I thought was a level field for me to be able to do that. I can’t do that on TV with the big boys. I just can’t do it and I can’t compete on billboards. But social media is a leveler. And not only that, I think I have an advantage because some of those big Have your firm’s Steve, it’s hard for them to humanize themselves. They saturate the market such and that’s their marketing strategy. And that’s fine, and it works. But they’ve saturated the market. And it is all you think about as indirect need to check. And that’s to some people think about who some people call. But for me, I wanted to build a network of people of influencers that get to know me personally, not more as the lawyer originally, but get to know me, the dad get to know me, the guy that always struggles with his weight that’s always on his fat to fit journey that gets to know me, the person that’s out volunteering in the community, me though his wife is a school teacher, he’s passionate about teaching and kids in the public school education, those kinds of things. And I have an interest in that I know everybody out listening has those similar interest or interest of their own that others have an interest in? But if you’re not sharing that, if you’re not expressing that to others, how can people get to know you?


Steve Fretzin  [05:56]

Yeah, so I mean, you can get out there and network, which I always recommend and getting to know people shaking hands and doing the groundwork, okay, and people can get to know you that way. And then there’s the other side of it, which is getting people getting to know you through content. And social media, as you mentioned, being kind of the leveling of the playing field for the small player and the big player to kind of level out. And so how do you develop content, to humanize yourself and get that personal connection with people that may want to use you refer you, etcetera?


Mo Lilienthal  [06:29]

Well, I think it starts with, you’ve got to give yourself permission to share who you are. And that’s tough for people on social. And I think a lot of people don’t believe me when I say this, the that follow me now, that was tough when I really started opening up because when I first started on social years ago, I was more of a looker and just kind of lurking around watching I occasionally like or do and follow. And, um, but I wasn’t posting a whole lot. And then it just a light switch just kind of flow out in meetings, some influential other folks in the marketing and legal industry that were already doing this, that kind of gave me a nudge and said, Hey, you got to start doing this. And so I think it starts with what are your interest? And do I think it needs to be natural, I think if you just try to go into this, and you try to say hey, I’m going to start sharing content about fitness, or I’m going to share about whatever this works for most, I’m going to share this for me too. Well, if that’s not who you are, if that’s not genuine, it’s going to come through. And so for me my weight, for example, we’ll just talk about weight loss right now, my weight loss and do if you follow me and see me or know me in person or see me on social, you’ll see that I go from big people that can college and football and college I call me big man. I go from Big Mo to medium. And that’s it. There’s never no small amount. So in my closet reflects that. And right now, fortunately knock on wood. I’m at the lower end of the medium level right now. But it’s a journey. But I know that a lot of people struggle with that. See? Yeah. And so by me sharing my journey and opening up about that, it’s helping me connect with people that share with that. And you know, for example, I’m one of these peloton junkies. And so when I share about my bike, and I share my journey and do man, I got all kinds of people DMing me about peloton and asking questions and do. But these people are connecting with me on doing that. It’s not me saying, hey, if you’ve got to read call me or if he’s let me tell you about this insurance tip. Now do sprinkle some of that in and some of what I do just as in a natural way. But I think if I’m coming at it from call me, I’m not connecting with those people. Whereas if I come at you and connect about something on a personal level as a dad or as my school or about some volunteer organization that I work at, then we make that connection. And if you also know based upon following me and interaction that I’m also a lawyer, then you’re going to trust me so you’re going to reach out to me when you have a legal


Steve Fretzin  [08:46]

Yeah, and I guess I’m curious because you’re talking about personal stuff is are there particular social media outlets that you’re using for that personal like weight loss and football and things that you’re interested in? Is that Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, like what are your channels?


Mo Lilienthal  [09:02]

Yeah, so I do believe in general that each channel has its own little bitty niche, and there’s certain types of people on each channel and do so for example, you know, I shared a Post this morning about today was my 500th ride on the peloton. And for people who ride peloton and day, that’s kind of a big number. And so I shared that, but I did not share that on LinkedIn. I think LinkedIn is more of a professional types of there’s some time and some place to share. So a little bit more personal angle, which is a little different than what you see on there. But I’m not sharing a lot of that type of content on there and do so a lot of times it’s mainly Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram is kind of where I’m doing it and sharing, you know things either in the stories and on the walls as well.


Steve Fretzin  [09:45]

And then do you somehow mix in the peloton and the other things that you chat about with? What about the motor show or do you mix it in with how you help people with personal injury? Like do you mix that business at some point where Get the personnel. So it isn’t so that people actually know what you do, in addition to knowing that you’re five.


Mo Lilienthal  [10:05]

I do certainly think you’ve got to think figure out what that mix is. You know, I think I’ve heard people say, and I think I’ve said before, maybe more of an 80 28% personal and 20%, you know, more related stuff. Yeah. So with regard to that, you know, I do something that I call tips from Mo, and I’ve been doing them past four years now. And I’ve done probably close to hundreds, maybe close to 1000 by now. And these are just 62nd Video Tips. Most of them’s the are inspirational life hacks or apps that I find, but I do, you know, insurance tips, issues with this, Hey, if you’re you know, doing, you know, if you’ve got a home, take your phone and walk around in video, every room and say that in case there’s ever a fire, then you have evidence of what contents you have in the house, because no one’s ever been right? Nobody’s going to sit down and actually do an inventory. But if you take this because if your house burned, there’s going to be something in every room major that you’re gonna forget. But if you got a quick two minute video, or whatever how big your house is, you can go back and review that and do so that’s a tip from Oh, that is legal related touches on what I do for a living, but it’s not in your face.


Steve Fretzin  [11:13]

Yeah, but I liked LG angle. And as a life hack. It’s something that people would then go, Oh, my God, that’s a great idea. Got it from Moe. And again, you’re mixing in that business in a way, I got into an argument, a very light argument with a friend of mine who posted a picture of his son’s baseball game on LinkedIn. And I said, Look, we don’t need another Facebook. And LinkedIn is a business. And if you want to bring something personal, that’s fine, but angle it around personal that leaks into business. And so my post then was about the argument. I went into this massive, you know, walleye are a musky that my son caught after 10,000 casts after multiple hours and days, I mean, 20 hours of casting to catch this fish. That was his dream fish and the persistence. And the lesson that I’m learning from my son about persistence in going after dreams and goals, and I angled it in a business setting. And I don’t between the two things I ended up with, I think around 16,000 views and you know, 150 comments, and a couple 100 likes and loves and all that. And that was my greatest social media post. And it was because I think I was able to mix in the personal with the business, not just about, oh, here’s my son’s ballgame, or here’s a picture of my food from my dinner. I mean, that’s not LinkedIn. So you really have to know where you’re posting and what you’re posting and what’s appropriate. Right.


Mo Lilienthal  [12:35]

100% I agree with that. 100%. And I think, you know, put a little thought into it. And do you know, I’m always and I haven’t done this now for several years. My mind is always, you know, kind of creatively thinking. And so if I see something I think about man, that can be a fun post. And then the next thing is, is how can i What’s the best way to craft that post? As opposed to you know, saying just like you said, with your about your son’s accomplishment and resiliency there, you know, that certainly an easy Facebook dad pride album, and you know, hashtag dad life kind of thing. But if you can set how can I spin this because his persistency and his resiliency, that applies across all channels, right? And that’s something that if he learned at a young age that you’re going to need in your business life? Yeah. So that’s perfect way to do it.


Steve Fretzin  [13:22]

Well, let me ask you this, if there’s a lawyer listening right now, who’s not active with social media, putting content out there, if you had to say, hey, you know, here’s a general way to start to just get a post out there or to get a series of posts, how many times a week? And what kind of things should they be posting to just get started to just get the ball rolling? Because I think that’s sometimes the issue. It’s not about how many posts or what kind of posts and how often it’s just how do I get started, that might be a good thing to share.


Mo Lilienthal  [13:51]

Let’s talk about real quick, Steve, let’s talk about like the two different ways you could do it, let’s talk about your firm. And then let’s talk about you and let’s look at it more from a business angle. And then I think most people will be more comfortable from the business angle of it. And once you do, the more firm oriented type posts that I think are more, you know, ones that are going to attract people’s attention, as opposed to just a graphic about call me. Let’s talk about that. And then you can if you feel comfortable, and you get into that, then you might give yourself the freedom to do more what I’m doing, which is a little bit more personal stuff. So think about it like this. Here’s some things that I’ve found successful for our firm. So your firm, almost everybody out here this listening is a lawyer that is doing things in the community. They’re volunteering for this or they’re given donations for that. Give you a classic example. I every year except for last year because of COVID. I go up to my wife’s elementary school and I read and as my son was coming through, I’d read through his grade level and now that he’s they don’t do that in fourth and fifth grade anymore. I get down to the kindergarten and first grade and love a ball right? So what I would do is I would take get permission from the teachers and we would take a picture and usually a silly picture with the kids, me and the kids holding your finger up your nose when you’re on kind of fun stuff. And then a serious picture, the teacher would take a picture of me reading with the kids. And then we would share that on our firm’s social media, not as Morris, the great lawyer doing great things, that’s the back end, that’s what we hope to be able to kind of absorb indirectly. But it is, hey, if you’ve got some free time, the local elementary schools are really looking for people to come read to the kids, we promise you’ll get more out of it, you know, then they will kind of thing. And then you tag the local school system, you tag the superintendent and do tag the teacher, if your friends or she liked your page, you’re gonna get so much positive feedback into and it is not a camera, what you said with your picture of your son in the fishing store, it’s a way you angle it, and you direct it. Everybody is doing those things in the community already warrant shared out in a way of, hey, look at us shirt on us, Hey, we love to support this organization, the Humane Society, whatever. Why don’t you support it, please support it. Don’t forget about this during this time of the year, whatever it is, there are things that I know firms and lawyers, sellers are doing out there on their own, and they’re just not sharing it out. And they can share it out and shed a light on that cause or that mission to support. For example, if things are going on in your community, you know, why aren’t you sharing information about what’s going on, for example, where members of the Better Business Bureau, so the Better Business Bureau has a shredding Day coming up, hey, let’s share out information about the shredding day. Because that’s important, if you’re a business need to shred that of your personal stuff. All those kinds of those are easy wins on social that you can share and do. And certainly, and there’s all kinds of other fun stuff about your firm and accomplishments in terms of birthdays, or other little bitty things and holidays. And that’s just easy wins on social, but I’m thinking, start with what you’re doing in the community and what you’re supporting, and then kind of grow it from there.


Steve Fretzin  [16:51]

Yeah, I would just add to the people that are not open to sharing personal stuff that’s too big of a jump for you right off the bat, which I think it’s great to do. And some people are going to take that advice Mo and they’re going to run with it. Others are going to feel a little uncomfortable getting into the personal side, I would back it up by saying, you know, LinkedIn is kind of the main business, you know, social media platform that lawyers are using, and start posting content, you know, talk about a win, don’t just share wins. But like, you know, share content, share educational, something you found in Forbes, something that you wrote something that you think would be valuable to your community to the people.


Mo Lilienthal  [17:27]

And I’ll touch on that. So that’s a good point. So what we do a couple of things, a lot of lawyers, let’s talk about other practice areas, we also do estate planning and probate here. And so we’ve drafted ever, what I call evergreen content that’s out there on our website and in pamphlets that we have that pretty much status quo you’re around. And so we’ll share that kind of stuff out periodically, especially at the end of the year and beginning of the year, when people might be thinking more about drafting an estate plan. You know, that kind of thing. And sharing that kind of information out tips about, you know, we’ve written articles about tips about pool safety, and this time of year is a good time to be sharing that kind of stuff. Or, for example, I saw post just the other day that the Alabama law enforcement agency is now have, it’s a thing where you can go online on your Alabama driver’s license, and electronically upload an emergency contact. So if you’re in an accident or something the officers can then pull up on their computers at the same for your emergency contact is if you’re unconscious and can’t respond. Well, that’s important to know, especially if you got a kid that 16 or 17 drive, and you probably want that on their driver’s license. So that’s a good example of something that you can share out.


Steve Fretzin  [18:34]

Yeah, so I think there’s just you gotta take this step forward. And let me just put it this way that it’s not a sprint, it’s a marathon, you can start slow, you can start small. But I think the lawyers that are not getting involved, they’re not getting engaged, just like if you’re not doing business development actively, you’re getting left behind, and you can rely on luck. And you can rely on your partner dying and handing you the book, you can rely on some things that may or may not ever happen. But the reality is you’re either you know, moving forward, or you’re dying, and in most talking about moving forward, and so even if you start slow and small, that’s okay. But you got to start at some point and start working that social media or start working that business development. And understand that, you know, this is a part of being a lawyer, it’s the part of the business of law. And absolutely, in Mo, you’ve taken it to another level through not only your social media, but also you know, I’m a big fan of your podcast, I was a guest on it. And I think it’s terrific. And I’d love for you to share what it’s like when you started it and what it’s like, you know, building a show and building a following.


Mo Lilienthal  [19:39]

Yeah, thanks for letting me talk about that. And this was something that I started about four years ago, and I’m close to probably about 100 guests so far now, but just come full circle and on what you just said to close the last section out there and that is I didn’t start with that. I started with just sharing the information we talked about before, and then getting up the nerve to share the 62nd Video Tips for a year before I dove headfirst into a podcast and a Facebook live show. And so I started the show. And it’s more what I call a community based show. And so I interview people starting locally, who are doing good in the community, in nonprofits, people who are giving back local leaders, local TV personalities, who people may want to know more about what they do. For example, the the local weather guy was one of the first people I interviewed in the year and everybody loves the local weather guy, and I love the local weather guy, because I want to know if I need my umbrella and hot and need a jacket or not. And but we talked about weather safety. Those are things that it’s certainly super important that they’re trying to get the word out on and do. Or the president of the city council, you know, somebody that’s very influential in our community, and does now that he’s a good friend of mine. He’s an awesome, yeah. But the easy way to make that introduction and do it’s hard to just reach out to him of a big city like countable nouns I, hey, I’d love to meet you and get to lunch with you. But if you asked him, Hey, would you like to come on my show for a 30 minute interview to talk about all the great changes that are going on in our community and what’s happening now and what’s coming down the pike? Man, they’re gonna jump all over that. And so that’s what I started. But I do a lot of it is non legal. But let me touch on how I dove tail legal end. So I will, for example, I had on an insurance agent one time, and we talked about the things that you don’t know that you should know when you’re buying auto and homeowners insurance. And I’m able to add a legal spin on that. I had the National President of Mothers Against Drunk Driving, I’ll touch his ride on what I do with personal injury law. Sure, we didn’t sit around and talk about personal injury law per se. But I’m able to add a legal spin into it as we’re talking about the dangers of drunk driving and things that are going on in those in that world, unfortunately, that still exist. And so it’s been a way for me, we talked a little bit earlier, my firm is at four years old, then around a long time. And it was built as a community firm, with a what I call grin and grip, meeting people grinning and smiling and shaking hands and getting to know people and we still do a great job of that. But I’m a firm believer that think about the power of the grid and grip, but think about if you can multiply that by 10 or 100x by using social media. And so that’s what my show allows me to do. I’m able to reach into this guest is pocket of friends or their followers or this organizations, followers, I’m able to spread their word and their mission through my show. And then every time I have a show with with a group of people, I pick up a few more followers of my show. A few more followers with me on my personal social media. Give me an example. About two years ago, I was about halfway into this journey. My wife posted something and tagged me about American Heart Association, my son was doing Jump Rope for Heart kind of thing that every kid does at the school. And somebody made a donation. And my wife said, Who is that? And I said, that’s a lady that follows me on social. I had no I’ve never met her. She’s out of state. But she connected me with through me with one of my guests. And almost invariably, anytime she posts something, she often makes a comment or a question or shares. But she’s built a connection such that she made a donation to my son’s Jump Rope for Heart. And so you never know who’s following and what’s going on. I want to bore your audience with countless stories like that. But I can tell you that happens anywhere from a lady who’s probably in her 60s At that age, down to kids and my wife’s class that think I’m famous. I’m not being conceited, but my wife had something come up right at the end of the school year, and she’s talking about doing something with our class. And one of the fifth grade students is why not why you get to do that slowly. And though your husband’s famous, she says my husband’s not famous. And she’s just started laughing. She’s he is he’s got his own show and his own YouTube channel. But that’s the kids perspective,


Steve Fretzin  [23:38]

right? I mean, that’s all you need these days, you don’t have to be on NBC or major, you know, Netflix or anything. I mean, if you’re just getting in front of people in a way that they’re on the way they take in content, you know,


Mo Lilienthal  [23:48]

it is That’s right. And but they’re getting to know you and they’re getting like interesting, but it’s allowing me to make inroads with new people and new audiences. But for doing this show, I would have never made inroads into those audiences.


Steve Fretzin  [24:03]

Yeah, and I can add to that, you’ve got a community show that I think is really helping you build your brand locally. And I think the lawyers that are listening to this, that maybe they have a big IP, you know, practice nationally or internationally, maybe they have, you know, they’re doing, you know, large, high net worth estate planning, whatever the case might be. Podcasting isn’t for everybody. But I will tell you, from your experience, my experience and other people that I’ve interviewed that have podcasts, and yeah, there’s a million podcasts. However, you don’t need to millions of people, you know, you need to build a following slowly of people that are relevant in your space that you’re adding value for, and that are going to spread the word about a show that you’ve put together that’s valuable. That’s helpful.


Mo Lilienthal  [24:45]

You think you need to know who your audience is. For me, my audience is my community and I’m trying to build a network of folks here that they ultimately need legal help, they think of me but if you’re an IP lawyer, you’re somebody else. You can build a podcast around your practice about things that are around who their clients are sharing, have guessed on that provide valuable information for their clients. It doesn’t have to be a community based show. But the point that you’re making that as well taken is that think about this and provide valuable resource to who your potential audience is and who you’re looking to get business from.


Steve Fretzin  [25:17]

And I think you can demonstrate expertise, not by pitching yourself or by selling your services or talking about how great your firm is, I think people pick up on it people can understand through the questions you’re asking through the guests, you’re bringing on through the way you carry yourself, whether you know what you’re talking about or not. And that adds a lot of value to other marketing efforts. Not to mention the fact that you’re driving that you’re building content, then can share, you know, multiple times in multiple ways.


Mo Lilienthal  [25:45]

It does, you’re just really there’s a lot of marketers like to say you’re building your herd and their tribe, but you’re doing it more through social or through podcasting. And for me, the way I do it to kind of let everybody know, I think one thing that if you’re gonna do some of these things, and we touched on this just briefly with sharing content, repurpose, repurpose, repurpose, repurpose, take things, if you’re going to put the time and effort into drafting a blog, then reshare it on social media, put it in your E newsletter, when it’s appropriate. If you’re doing what we’re doing today, if I’m recording a show with someone, I do a do now stream yard, and then we record that, and then I turn that into a podcast, then I turn it into a YouTube video, then I turn it into an audio grant clip. I don’t but my virtual assistant does. And so but I’m not just taking one piece of content and using it one way, I’m trying to get as much value out of that one piece of content as I can,


Steve Fretzin  [26:36]

I want to just share one thing, and then we’ll kind of wrap up. The other concern that I can already tell someone listening to this would say is, you know, Steve, I don’t have time for a podcast. And I don’t have time to do the production and the editing. And I don’t know how to do any of that stuff. And guess what? Either do I, I don’t want to know how to edit. I don’t want to know how to produce, okay, I don’t want to know how to do graphics and do all that. It’s so important to consider that there are so many vendors, quality vendors for social media production for social media, content, providing writers, I’ve got an amazing team and turnkey podcast out in California, that does all my production, they take care everything I just finished this show with you mo quite frankly, I throw it up on my software, they take it run with it, they post it up. And then I’ve got a marketing agency and legalese marketing, some name dropping a little bit here, Jordan Ostroff team, and Orlando. And then they are the ones that do all the posting and setting up and all that and I’m kind of overseeing it. But the end of the day, I don’t have time for that. And neither do the lawyers that are listening to this. And you don’t need to and it isn’t that much money in the end of the day, it’s pennies on the dollars and the return on investment is huge. So I just don’t want people to think that they can’t do a lot of these things, because it’s either expensive or time consuming. You can do what you can do. And then there’s always people to outsource to happy to be a provider of those resources if you need just letting everyone know, is that something that you do as well? Or I mean, you probably do some of it yourself. percent no


Mo Lilienthal  [28:02]

100%. And as a small firm, I agree with that. But let me just say so I do outsource everything you talked about outsource your virtual assistant and search time later found somebody was great. Jordan is great. I spoke to Jordan this week. He’s phenomenal. And I’ve been on his show, he does an outstanding job. So yes, don’t keep that in house. It’s just like things that your office as a lawyer know where your time is best spent. And so the other thing I would say is if we’re talking about starting small and just baby steps, start with your iPhone, if you’re going to do some video stuff, maybe if you want to just do that start with 30/62 videos. And the other thing is, it doesn’t need to be perfect. I think a lot of lawyers, they struggle with the fact Steve that they think everything needs to be perfect if they’re going to share it out there. Like it needs to look good and do but you don’t need that’s not your bio video or your firm. Every video on your website. People are understanding if you’ve got decent lighting and decent audio roll with it. If you mumble or stumble one second guess what everybody mumbles in Bumbles? If I’m going to be a paralysis by analysis, I’m never going to get that content out. So I’ve gotten now almost every rarely do I shoot more than one to promote because if I bumbled or stumble, I just gotta get it out. Because I’ll wait till it’s perfect. I’ll spend 15 minutes on it. I need to spend three minutes on it, it’d be done.


Steve Fretzin  [29:17]

And I think Instagram and YouTube and podcasts have opened up the door for people to not have to be perfect that we actually appreciate the honesty and the truth in bumbling and fumbling and saying a bad word or whatever. Not having it be perfectly edited. I mean, that’s the way I used to shoot video was it had to be two cameras shoot perfect sound perfect. That’s perfect that or I wouldn’t put it out because it’s junk if it isn’t perfect. And I think that’s completely changed now not where it has to be trashed, but it definitely needs to be quality, but it humanizes us to just have like you and I are having a conversation. Do we have structure to this? Did we have lines to read? Did we have you know, special video equipment? No, we’re working off of our Computers, it’s no big deal. And that’s the way the contents being consumed today and just we all can be okay with it. And Perfection isn’t necessarily the best. And to your point analysis by paralysis, just do it, just get it out there and get started with something. So 100%,


Mo Lilienthal  [30:14]

because if you do it, you’re gonna be lightyears ahead of everybody else out there.


Steve Fretzin  [30:18]

Yeah, there’s a lot of people that aren’t doing anything you can get ahead. So, Moe, how do people get in touch with you listen to your show. They want to refer your stuff, what’s the best way to reach you?


Mo Lilienthal  [30:28]

Awesome. Thanks so much, David. Yeah, the easiest way to find any and all things that I’m doing is go to the most show dot live, it’s the MO show dot live, that has all what I’m doing on social. And again, that’s something that I’ve built over time. I didn’t have that till the last year. So as I started trying to build my brand, but all my tips are in there, my links to the podcast shows are in there, you can direct link and watch the show when it’s live. So just check me out there.


Steve Fretzin  [30:51]

Yeah, and you’re absolutely someone that you know, my listeners should be emulating and considering following and watching what you’re doing, because you’re an innovator in the content arena, and it’s working, it’s getting you the business and others can just not copy you, but they can, you know, be personalized their own way. But using you as a template, if you will, here’s someone who made it happen and is now got it on not autopilot, but you’re definitely doing it on a regular basis making yourself very sticky. So thank you mo for being on the show. I really appreciate it. Yeah, it’s my privilege and honor. Thanks so much, Dave. And hey, everybody, listen, if you didn’t get a couple of takeaways from Moe, you’re not paying attention you’re sleeping. You have to execute it’s not about just listening and then just going well that really made sense. You got to take action do something small to get started. It doesn’t have to be pushing all your chips. Hey everybody, please keep the date open August 20. Me and superstar marketing expert Frank Ramos are going to be doing a two hour two time event. Coming up on everything sales and marketing related to grow your law practice, check it programs and you’ll see what it’s all about and you can register right there from my website. Hope to see you there. And again the goal here every show be that lawyer someone who’s confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Take care everybody be safe be well.


Narrator  [32:12]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes