Rena Paul & Alison Trenk: Getting Present to Be a Better Lawyer

In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Rena Paul, and Alison Trenk discuss:

  • Ongoing wellness for professionals.
  • Having individual tools that you can do daily that work for your life and wellness.
  • Consciously re-regulating our bodies and focusing on our breathing.
  • Finding ways you can get into your present life.

Key Takeaways:

  • Start with the tiny things and bring mindfulness into your life and practice in small ways. It doesn’t have to be big grand things, just something you can do in your life everyday.
  • As humans, we need to speak to our bodies and understand where we need to re-regulate our nervous symptoms.
  • Focus on your breaking – making the exhale longer than the inhale is a surefire way to calm yourself.
  • Learning more about yourself can help you be a more authentic lawyer.

“You need to be well so you can do well for others.” —  Rena Paul

Connect with Rena Paul & Alison Trenk:  

Rena’s Website:

Rena’s Email:

Alison’s Website:

Rena’s LinkedIn:

Alison’s LinkedIn:

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.



Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.



lawyer, allison, people, wellness, breaths, day, reena, breathing, today, work, professionals, shake, exhale, talk, walking, life, listening, workshop, hear, animals


Alison Trenk, Rena Paul, Narrator, Steve Fretzin


Rena Paul  [00:00]

You do not have to you don’t need a mantra, Though a match was lovely. You don’t need a transcendental meditation love that too. But there are ways for everybody to do this. And to really try to give yourself some care and attention and love so that you can come back to this job and show up as your best version of yourself.


Narrator  [00:25]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.


Steve Fretzin  [00:48]

Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I am Steve Fretzin. As the announcer mentioned, I hope you’re having a wonderful day, I am sitting here on a gloomy day here in Chicago. And that’s okay, things are going well, we’re starting to move into the colder weather. And that’s enough for the forecast, I guess, at this point. But here’s what’s going on. It’s all about being that lawyer, someone who’s confident organized a skilled Rainmaker. And there’s so many elements that go in to that, that, you know, it’s not just about oh, I do business development, marketing, you have to have the right mindset, you have to have the right health, the wellness, it’s a package, okay, it’s like a home, you got to have everything working together to make that home work. And I’ve got to two great guests here today that are going to help kind of talk a little bit about wellness and making sure that you’re you’re doing all the right things to stay healthy and happy. And I want to start off with a quote Reena. And Allison, in the quote of the day, is if you want to be a true professional, do something outside of yourself. And that’s a Ruth Bader Ginsberg quote. And for me, I think it’s about going the extra mile, I don’t think you can just kind of hum along and do what’s expected or just do the bare minimum and eat your way through. I think it’s about how can you be exceptional? How can you do something that’s going to get you notice that’s going to get you famous, that’s gonna get you, you know, just empowered to, like, live the life that you were meant to, to lead. And I’m one of these guys who, you know, I take every day like, as it’s my last day, like I’ve had near death experiences, my audience knows that. And I just try to make sure that I’m, I’m not just taking things for granted. So let me start off with you, Allison, what does that quote mean to you?


Alison Trenk  [02:27]

Oh, wow. So as a practicing clinician, a therapist, and you guys have heard more about that later, I guess. But I, I believe it means to live your life and challenge yourself to be able to see the world differently than you typically do every day. So we, we talk a lot about mindfulness practices, but being able to kind of stop and get out of your head and kind of do something outside of yourself and like experience the world outside of kind of your thoughts and sort of ruminating thoughts and worries that internally,


Steve Fretzin  [03:01]

I might have to have you talk with my wife, she’s worried. She comes from a long lineage in line of worriers. Yes, she’s constantly erode, had a part time therapist at home, by the way. Yeah, thank you, thank you part time job. And Reena, how about yourself,


Rena Paul  [03:16]

you know, I hear that I hear that quote. And it makes me think of making sure that you are being authentic in your work, and bringing whatever is authentically you, that makes you kind of different than the next lawyer or professional person and bringing that into your profession. So getting out of the way of limiting beliefs of beliefs that have you saying, I need to be this way or that way. And I’m not going to show this side of myself, but being able to bring your entire self to the work is a real strength.


Steve Fretzin  [03:48]

Yeah, I got a call from a client today, she is an associated mid market firm. And her firm basically told all their associates just do the work, don’t worry about business development, don’t worry about growing your book, just do the work. And she called me up not in tears, but like, obviously upset about it. And I just talked her down from the you know, from the, you know, off the building, and she’s brought in big matters. And she’s getting noticed by all the senior partners at our firm and in a meeting someone said to her today, you know, everybody needs to keep an eye on her because, you know, she’s she’s, she’s what else should be doing and thinking about, and I just was like, full, my heart was full. And I was just so happy that she’s taken the road less traveled. And I think that goes right in line with what you were saying about the quote. So let’s start off with you Renan give us a little background, what you’re up to in running a law firm and being involved in wellness.


Rena Paul  [04:43]

Yeah, so I run a law firm that I co founded with another colleague, it’s called Alpha law, Arca la w. And we represent schools, companies and individuals in crisis, particularly those that involve sexual misconduct and other sensitive matters. So the work that we do is really based on principles of trauma informed lawyering. And before I started this business, I was a federal prosecutor and before that state prosecutor, and I think, you know, doing that kind of work, doing any work as a lawyer makes you quickly realize that you got to take care of yourself to be able to sustain yourself in that work. So to help you perform better, and to prevent you from burning out, I got very interested in different modalities and tools to help people to help myself, frankly, and then to help myself help others find ways to do that. So I became a certified in yoga, and I’ve been working with Allison doing trainings for lawyers, to teach about trauma informed lawyering and expose people to tools that they can use that I have learned over the years, exposing to modalities that they might not otherwise know, that they can bring into their own life.


Steve Fretzin  [05:54]

Very cool. And how did you meet Allison? Out of curiosity,


Rena Paul  [05:57]

Allison and I met through the Institute for Innovation and prosecution, which I’ll plug they’re a wonderful thing.


Steve Fretzin  [06:05]

Allison, we just had Rena lock up on us right in the middle.


Alison Trenk  [06:10]

I thought it was my technology, you’re


Steve Fretzin  [06:12]

gonna, you’re gonna, you’re gonna, you’re gonna finish the story. You guys met it. Go from there.


Alison Trenk  [06:19]

Terrible to try to get something kind of fun to be like we met on hinge.


Steve Fretzin  [06:25]

You could have just like done an imitation of her voice and kept it going. Yeah, no, no one would have been known any different.


Alison Trenk  [06:30]

We met through. So we did we meet we met through this incredible organization here in New York City called the Institute for Innovation and prosecution. And I, you know, my background is, I am a licensed clinical social worker here in New York. But I’ve done a ton of work for prosecutor, different Prosecutors Offices, and so forth. And so I’ve done work in that realm. She’s a former prosecutor. And we, you know, we met at this conference where we were talking about trauma informed prosecution, well, then that led to us, you know, trying to create a workshop for prosecutors around trauma and from prosecute prosecution. And then next thing, you know, we were talking about wellness. And when we started thinking about doing this kind of work, it was 2020, we had just, like, kind of just gone into sort of the pandemic. And we’re like, do you think, you know, attorneys are gonna want to, like, learn about wellness, you know, because it just felt like a such a far reach? Well, of course, you know, a couple months later, as time is going on, people are begging for us to do these wellness workshops. So yeah, that is how she and I got together.


Steve Fretzin  [07:36]

Yeah. And it’s, it’s the timing, as you said, is so is so critical. I mean, I think there’s been a, you know, history. Well, if we’re talking about lawyers, which is the show, right, there’s been a history of depression and mental illness and alcoholism and drug abuse and stuff. It’s a stressful job. It’s a stressful, stressful business to be in with with billable hours and pressures. And so the ability to have strong is to have, you know, to put yourself in the right mindset and to take care of yourself and to stay you know, mind body healthy is never been more challenging.


Alison Trenk  [08:11]

Exactly, exactly. And we got redone back to absolutely 100%. And I think that’s, you know, the interesting thing about the work that we’re doing, and we can talk a little bit more about it, but we in creating a wellness workshop, we harbored it within ethics. Yeah. And so that that was kind of our trying to get buy in even again, not knowing that the pandemic was going to just have a natural sort of like people are just naturally wanting wellness. The ethical piece of it is also we’ve kind of married it to ethics. So you know, I don’t know if you want to talk a little bit about that.


Steve Fretzin  [08:45]

Reno’s back, Allison kicked in for you. Shoot, she’s a champ, stepped in while you were gone for a couple minutes. I


Alison Trenk  [08:50]

did a song and dance. No.


Steve Fretzin  [08:54]

She didn’t badmouth you at all, I promise. Yeah, this


Rena Paul  [08:57]

era of zoom and why you need mindfulness in particular, right. So when all of your tech fails,


Steve Fretzin  [09:03]

I have a rule about technology. And if you want to hear it, it’s it will always fail you. Like that’s just that’s just a rule I follow it will always fail me and in disappoint me. But anyway, you know, I guess if you guys don’t mind transitioning, Allison did a real good job of kind of bringing it all together. What are the kinds of of ongoing challenges that professionals are having, whether it’s in a COVID environment or in general, where wellness is so important, so talking to the to the things that you guys are seeing and hearing day to day out of professionals that you work with? Reena?


Rena Paul  [09:35]

Yeah. Well, I think that’s obvious to most of us who have lived our lives on Zoom for the last year, two years or 10 years depending on how long it feels to you. So we’re, we’re not interacting as much with our communities because we haven’t been able to. We are constantly tied to our computers and our zooms and our phones and maybe more in constant technological contact than we need. were when we were working face to face. And the job is still there as lawyers, right? So people are still continuing to grind in the same way that they did in this new era. So you’re working with or you’re working at home, perhaps with your children, perhaps, with your spouse or whoever else, you live with your family. And that causes new kinds of challenges for people who are work professionals who are also working full time. Yeah, Allison,


Alison Trenk  [10:27]

with regard to


Steve Fretzin  [10:28]

just we’re talking about challenges, things that are that you guys are seeing why people are so stressed out, and the kinds of things you’re hearing and seeing on a day to day basis?


Alison Trenk  [10:37]

Yeah. Okay. So, because that because, again, my profession, you know, on a day to day basis is in mental health. So, I was gonna say, yeah, a lot. A lot of anxiety. Is


Steve Fretzin  [10:47]

there is there maybe there’s one or two things that you’re seeing more regularly now than maybe in the past?


Alison Trenk  [10:52]

Yeah, I do think anxiety and depression in general, those symptoms, whether they are clinically diagnoseable, as anxiety or depression, or just literally feelings of hopelessness, worry, stress, not being able to sleep, and, and being in that sort of space of really not being able to regulate oneself that that is the thing that I’m seeing from from children, to professionals in the work environment.


Steve Fretzin  [11:17]

Yeah, and I’m seeing it to maybe not with myself, I mentioned, my wife is a worrier. But, you know, also, you know, I’m just, you know, my son is in high school. And so there’s, you know, there’s people, you know, all kinds of stories that I’m hearing about these teenagers, and obviously, then there’s the social media and all the Facebook and all that. So it’s just sort of like, there’s so much going on around us, it’s like, we’ve never been hit more with more negative messaging than ever than then then today. So whether that’s at work, or TV, or whatever it is, it’s all kind of coming down on us. So what are we so what are you what are you to working on with people? And what do you what are you presenting in your in your workshops that are helpful to them? We’re just gonna say lawyers, because that’s my audience. Generally, I don’t think there’s a lot of pharmacists and plumbers listening to my show, but what what are some of the things that that you guys are talking about in your workshops, or if you have some examples or stories, that would be great, too. I also want to start out arena.


Rena Paul  [12:15]

Sure, I’ll start so what, what we’re really trying to bring is the ability to, for everybody to have a tool that they can use, being a busy professional, and still access it. So we could tell you, you know, you should really do some yoga, or you should really go meditate on a mountain. And that would be really lovely. But and some people do that. And that is wonderful. And a lot of people don’t have time for that. And so the, and they’re saying to us Great, that sounds that sounds nice. But what what are we going to do in the five minutes that I have in between cooking dinner, and then getting back on Zoom to do another call, and where am I fitting this into my schedule. So our goal is to give people the ability to do some small things in their day that can start their lives being more present more mindful or conscious. And by that more present in their work more able to perform. And you start with a tight, you start with a little one bite. And soon enough, you’re into two bites, and you are able to bring this in into your life in a way that really serves you rather than being hit with what we all are from Instagram or whatever you see, it’s like, dude, do this or, you know, come and join this hour long class. It’s really how can you do this in your life every day? Yeah, so


Steve Fretzin  [13:30]

what would be an example of that? Just so so people listening have an idea of of the of the tactical actionable elements of what they could they could learn from you?


Alison Trenk  [13:41]

Yeah, so one of the exercises that we give is I talk about reregulating the body. And so my new phrase, my new phrase, I don’t even think I’ve said this with Rena yet is call it a shake, break. But essentially that one is when you think about animals in the wild or you know, they are like they can be in tussles that can be constantly threatened. And they don’t live their life worried, right? You don’t see animals in the life in the wild, worried yet we as humans, we are not, you know, faced with tigers every day. And we are constantly worried. And so the interesting thing about animals is when you study them, or even if you have one at home, you notice they do this thing to reregulate themselves after any kind of dysregulated situation. So they do this like shake, right? They shake their body and that essentially is re regulating the sympathetic nervous system. And so there’s this book this great book called burnout by Emily and Amelia dusky and they talk about basically resetting the stress cycle and so you want to be able to in your day, do things that speak the language that your body speaks, right like you can tell your brain sure I’m not stressed that the body still feel stressed to even just doing something where you’re literally shaking your hands and for your listeners want to do this right now take a second to kind of just check out your body she gets Hands, your head, your legs, you’re running in place, do something physical to kind of reregulate and tell your body, I’m safe right now. Like, there’s no lion. There’s no lion chasing me like this is just a work deadline. And that allows your body to kind of reregulate and say, oh, okay, now I can kind of move forward. And it’s just like some little thing that you can do and play on throughout your day, to make things and help your body.



Yeah, throughout the day, Reena and


Rena Paul  [15:25]

so I find I mean, that’s something that, as lawyers, you know that the ABA has a whole initiative for attorney well being that is pushing lawyers to pay more attention to it, a lot of that is, is for your own health and wellness. And some of it is also for ethics, you know, you need to be well to do well for others. And when you’re a person who is servicing all kinds of clients day in, day out, you have people calling your phone, they’re talking to you, no one’s coming to you, because they’re having a good day, they’re coming to you on probably the worst day, and you are handling all of that stress yourself, because it’s coming at you. So completing the stress cycle, as Allison was saying is a really nice way you get off of a zoom, you turn off your video, or you keep it on, well does that your video and you close your door, and you literally move your body. And you can do it for 30 seconds, a minute, you could put on some music, you know, get your favorite, high energy movement, music if you’d like and move, and it just changes the energy of your day, when you sit back down for the next person who’s going to come and tell you the what they’re going through, which is inevitably going to be difficult. You’re ready for it in a different way. Yeah, it’s


Steve Fretzin  [16:35]

really amazing what we can learn from animals not to pick up on that one small thing of everything you just know. But you know, like, I always need to stretch like I play a lot of sports and I just don’t stretch enough. And I just watched my dog and my cat every time they get up. Or every time they they move around, they stretch they stretch they stretch I go God if I did that, I’d probably be pretty nimble.


Alison Trenk  [16:57]

Yeah. Your animals are Yogi’s.


Steve Fretzin  [17:01]

Okay, well, yeah, I got to bring my animal instincts out in my in my daily life. So what would be what would be another because the I love the shake, and I love to get active and reregulate your body and get yourself reset. I think that’s, that’s something maybe very few people are doing. But everyone should, because I think that just makes so much sense to do that. What would be another example of something that would really help someone to shake the worry if you will?


Rena Paul  [17:31]

Yeah, so another thing that it turns out, you know, breathing is a thing that we all do, kind of unconsciously. And it also if taken into the conscious realm be a little bit healing, we can all we all are doing it. And if we’re not doing it, we’re probably not going to be bigger, kicking around for that much longer.


Steve Fretzin  [17:49]

It’s a good thing to do. I think that’s what you’re saying


Rena Paul  [17:51]

it’s a thing. But intentionally doing it can really change where you’re at. So one thing that we like to do, I like to do is to sit down, put your feet on the floor, rest your hands in your lap, close your eyes. So if you’re listening to this, just take that position, wherever you are, if you’re walking, just you can also do a walk and don’t close your eyes. And we’re just going to take three breaths, it’s going to be an inhale through the nose, and an exhale through the mouth with a sigh. Ideally, you’re in a place where you feel like if you let out a sigh, that you’re not going to, you’re not going to be disturbing someone around you. So don’t


Steve Fretzin  [18:29]

do this on a client call is what you’re saying. You’re


Rena Paul  [18:31]

not gonna do it on clinical or you compute it if you could do it on a mute, but try to do it. You could do it in between a client call, but you’re going to just sit and breathe in through the nose and exhale through the mouth and let’s just do it all together. Let’s do it. Okay, let’s do it. Alright, feet on the ground. Rest your hands. Relax. Close your eyes. Inhale through the nose and neck, exhale through the mouth of the side. Yeah. Inhale through the nose. Deeper, and exhale through the mouth side. One more. Inhale through the nose. All the way and fill up the lungs make it the deepest breath you took today. Exhale


Steve Fretzin  [19:29]

I think I probably took five breaths and you’re three. I think I’m a fast breather. Well, that’s the thing.


Rena Paul  [19:35]

It’s not a problem paying attention. No, there’s not none of it is a problem. You’re still breathing. I think that’s probably an overall positive right that we’ve established. But no, but thinking about making one thing related to this inhaling and exhaling through the mouth. There’s all kinds of ways to change your breathing that you can play with that slow down your you know, your nervous system and or you could speed it up you know, other breath but making the exhale longer than the inhale is a surefire way to calm yourself. So if you’re feeling like I’m breathing really fast, you know, that’s a way you can just get anywhere even on a client call, just try to exhale longer than the inhale.


Alison Trenk  [20:11]

Or even for like stress that like that you feel in your chest, like some people just like sort of feel it in the chest, giving some breath and like three deep breaths can also just kind of relieve it a little bit.


Steve Fretzin  [20:22]

Yeah, I think that’s really good. And for those of you listening, that was a weird moment for me to sigh on, on on the podcast. But that’s that’s, that’s


Rena Paul  [20:31]

doing something outside of ourselves.


Steve Fretzin  [20:35]

That was way outside of myself breathing on my podcast, in a weird way, in a weird, weird, awkward way. That’s all right. Listen, this is what this is an adventure for us. We’re doing it Ruth Ruth to a new cloud. Oh, right. No doubt about it. You know, I would add one thing to this conversation. If I may. And years ago, my wife and I went through Transcendental Meditation. And most people don’t know what that is. And I’ll just give you the two cents on it. It’s saying a mantra, which is some made up word over and over again. And when you’re doing that, it’s supposed to drown out all the thoughts, all the negative thoughts, but any thoughts that you have in your head should just go away. And all you do is say the word over and over. And if you drift to thoughts that are negative, or thoughts to that are distracting, you go back to the mantra, and it’s supposed to just clear your head. And the best example of what it does for me. And what I know it does for my wife is if you imagine yourself on an ocean, on a boat on an ocean, and it’s a crazy storm, with big waves and thunderstorms and everything else. And then if you go 500 feet down to the ocean floor, it’s calm, like there’s nothing going on. And that’s where your mind needs to be. Because if you’re up on the top of the ocean getting tossed in turn by the waters, right? No good. But sometimes you need to get out of there, and you need to just be calm. And that’s what it does. So sometimes I go and I just sit for 20 minutes, and I do it. And I don’t probably do it as much as I showed her as much as my wife does supposed to be twice a day for about 20 minutes. But for those of you who want to spend 1000s of dollars to go to Transcendental Meditation, I just saved you a couple grand, just put it out there. Because I walked out of there, I spent a couple grand I was like, Wait a second, I say a word over and over again. And that was a couple grand. Alright. But everyone’s making money. And for me, it was great because I have this terrific place to go where I don’t have to think. And I don’t have to worry. And I could just say the words over and over. But don’t share your mantra because then you’re jinxed that’s a rule.


Alison Trenk  [22:34]

Yes. Tell me something about that.


Rena Paul  [22:38]

Yeah, I mean, I would imagine that there’s people that are listening, if you happen to be a type A lawyer, and none I don’t know, you know, if any of us on this call are but if you happen to be, I imagine that someone hears that it says like, oh, 20 minutes, oh, God, I gotta go 20 minutes. And if I’m not doing 20 minutes, then I’m failing, I’m gonna fail. If I’m not doing 20 Minutes two times a day that I’m that I’m not going to do it right. I’m not doing it right. And I that is really what we’re trying to dismantle and to say, you don’t need 20 minutes, you it’s accessible to you for three breaths, inhale and exhale, you do not have to you don’t need a mantra, so much was lovely. You don’t need a transcendental meditation. Love that too. But there are ways for everybody to do this. And to really try to give yourself some care and attention and love so that you can come back to this job and show up as your best version of yourself.


Steve Fretzin  [23:31]

I love it. I love it. It’s just again, we all have to, we all just have to get it together. And in any way that works for you breathing, or meditation or shaking or walking the dog just relax and just get out of it and come back to it and in a calmer manner. And if we don’t do that, I think we’re all going to break down at some point. So let’s wrap up with kind of a final thought. And then we’re gonna get to the three best stuff. So Alison, one final thought on on on wellness and well being that you think is just kind of a final thought on like,



people people need to keep in mind.


Alison Trenk  [24:05]

So you know, everything that we spoke about today is really the fat. It’s mindfulness. It’s all it’s all in the the fat like under the foundation of mindfulness. And so that’s that’s the piece that I would encourage you to find the ways that you can get into your present life. And to your point of walking the dog or getting in nature, taking breaths. It really is about being present and enjoying your life. Right. Like we talked about time sort of being so quick right now. And that would be my final sort of thought of just really get into your life.


Steve Fretzin  [24:37]

Be mindful. Yeah, Rina.


Rena Paul  [24:39]

Well, if we’re staying on the theme of the quote for today, I would say that learning about more about yourself and exploring more about yourself through these kinds of practices can make you become a more authentic lawyer. Yeah,


Steve Fretzin  [24:57]

there’s another quote and I don’t know who said this, but you Uh, maybe it was Yoda. But I don’t know. But uh, no, it’s something about knowing you know you in order to know others you need to know yourself. Like you need to you need to really know yourself and really know what what works for you and how you’re going to make it. If once you do that, I think then then things just get easier. So if people want to reach out to you to, you know, bring you in for a workshop where they want to talk to you directly about their own wellness, what, how do they reach you? What’s the best way to get in touch?


Rena Paul  [25:26]

Now she can reach us Oh, Reena. Sure. Oh, they can reach us. They can reach me at you can go on our website, which is alpha A LC a la You can reach me at or us at Okay, Alison.


Alison Trenk  [25:46]

I mean, that’s all good. I’m under arena.


Steve Fretzin  [25:50]

That’s a team. It’s a team approach. Okay. All right, let’s move on to the three best of and so we’re talking about New York City. Right? So I’m coming to visit you guys in New York, and you want to take me out for the best meal I’ve ever had? Where are we going?


Rena Paul  [26:08]

Where are you going? You’re gonna, the best meal you’ve ever had? Well, I’m


Steve Fretzin  [26:11]

gonna give one of the best meals that I will I’ll be taught. So I’ll come back to Chicago. And I’m gonna say you guys wouldn’t believe the meal I had go.


Rena Paul  [26:20]

I want to give you my favorite meal in New York City. Which, if for you know, anyone who know who has worked with me knows that Los Skeena, which is a small Mexican restaurant on the corner, which is what last year means of Kenmare. And Lafayette is what is one of my favorite places to go. It has a lovely, different parts of the restaurant downstairs and upstairs and takeout. But they have consistent, awesome mood that you can get kind of at all hours. And it’s one of my favorite places. Nice, awesome, the less,


Alison Trenk  [26:50]

it’s delicious. So I’m going to self promote a little bit because my husband’s in the restaurant business. And we have an incredible restaurant on an aircraft carrier. It’s the smallest aircraft carrier in the world off of 120/5 Street. And it is super cool. Sounds pretty cool. And you have beautiful views of the skyline of the bridge and the sunset. And so the food’s pretty good. The drinks are really good. And it’s a really, you know, COVID friendly environment


Steve Fretzin  [27:19]

that you’ve experienced. Really? Yeah, my my 14 year old would be all over it. I wouldn’t be too but yeah, that’s really interesting. And so then we all know about Broadway and we know about the general stuff that tourists do. But what’s what’s something that that is sort of behind the scenes that only New Yorkers know is awesome that that that someone like myself would come in and see or do,


Rena Paul  [27:40]

Rena think, or anyone who’s lived in New York for a long time knows the joys of walking through the streets of New York. And just headphones on walking? Yeah, I think lately that I’ve discovered the beauty of a city bike, which is a new form of the walking through New York, it’s a biking through New York. And both of those things, you know, we we take for granted, I think, when you live here, and you walk through the streets a lot, but it can be a very, very, you know, you can put on an upbeat music, you put a sad music and you can see whatever you want to see in New York, you kind of could see it when you’re walking through the streets, walk over the bridges, of take yourself anywhere you want to go on a bike makes it even more freeing, lets you go further. Very cool. Very cool. Alison,


Alison Trenk  [28:26]

I am going to say that the Hudson River Parks are new they’ve been they’ve been worked on the past handful of years. And they are incredibly beautiful. So unlike central park that is, you know, beautiful in and of itself. But it’s you know, everybody’s there. They’re a lot more quiet. They have on different art installations. And it’s all over the HUD, like on the west side of Manhattan. There’s all these like little different pockets of parks that are just absolutely beautiful. And yeah, just kind of more quiet to


Steve Fretzin  [28:55]

Okay, so it sounds like my three best of might end up being the two best, because now I’m going to ask you about what you guys do to enjoy the city. And I think you gave it to me and what I would enjoy in the city. So it isn’t that different? What I would enjoy and what you to enjoy a fair assessment. I think so. All right. So another show first, we did the three best of in two. So we’re really, you know, breaking down barriers. Totally.


Alison Trenk  [29:23]

was the theme, right? I


Steve Fretzin  [29:25]

mean, today it is the theme we’re outside of ourselves. So I want to thank you both for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom and what you’re doing for the legal community. And what you’re doing for professionals in general is very noble. You know, this is this is, again, something that’s so necessary. And so I know people are going to be looking at the shownotes to find your contact information, which we’ll make sure we get all that set up. And then just thanks again for for spending some time with me and my audience to share your wisdom.


Rena Paul  [29:56]

Thank you. Thanks for having us.


Steve Fretzin  [29:58]

Yeah, my pleasure. Hey, everybody thank you for spending time with us and again, hopefully you got some good value out of the joy that we had during the show today. We had some laughs and fun. You got to hear me sigh in a weird awkward way. So that’s good. And listen, it’s all about being that lawyer someone who’s confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. Take care be safe be well, we’ll talk again soon.


Narrator  [30:24]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for drilling a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes