Rick Watson: Building a Professional Network

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Rick Watson discuss:

  • Building a professional network (and how to do it right).
  • Things lawyers are really bad at doing.
  • The hidden sales in your professional service firm.
  • Being likable and referrable.

Key Takeaways:

  • There is a difference between building a wide network (full of lots of people) and building a deep network, with great referral partners that can help you to bring in work regularly.
  • Balancing giving and taking in your network. Build up those you’re networking with and give them the hype that they deserve in your introductions.
  • Trust compression is the human tendency to make decisions about others based on the number of interactions, not the length of those interactions.
  • Be creative in keeping top of mind and in touch with people. It takes time and attention, but is worth maintaining those relationships.

“One of the things you can do to make yourself look bigger and better is to edify the people around you.” —  Rick Watson

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Episode References: 

About Rick Watson: Rick Watson is the author of “A Firm Worth Building”, which helps professional businesses scale and thrive. He identifies a common problem advice professionals all seem to share. These business owners focus more on performing their professional specialty rather than what it takes to run the business well. Many professional firms, struggle to find “good” growth. Some professionals even look to discard a percentage of their client book every few years, as a way of managing growth. Rick would say this is all backward. When you build a strong business, as the firm grows it gets easier to run, not harder.

Rick’s unique experience was forged from growing a firm with only $20 in his savings to managing ½ billion dollars in his current RIA and becoming the CEO of the National Referral Network and several other businesses which has forced him to be a student of running businesses in the best possible way. Rick’s book “A Firm Worth Building” covers about 30 lessons that every business owner should know, from thinking through branding to increasing referrals through professional networks. Additionally, he has a few unique success concepts like compressing the time it takes to build client trust and why building up your staff and other professionals through a dedicated process of “edification” is so helpful. He and his partners are forward-thinkers, their motto is – “We build what should exist”. Rick and his team are not afraid of complexity, hard work, or innovation. Rick’s accomplishments have opened the path to achieving his own dreams. Living with his family on a 5-acre horse ranch and wine-making operation in Loomis, CA, he still finds the time to enjoy the life that he has been able to build through embodying his own teachings. When he’s not helping manage and scale businesses, Rick rides Arabian horses in 30-100 mile races.

Connect with Rick Watson:




Book: A Firm Worth Building

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LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

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Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.


[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hello, everyone. Have you ever wondered how much more business you could be generating each month? Well, you can take the Be That Lawyer challenge to find out. If I’m unable to help you find the money that’s been evading you, I’ll pay your hourly rate for the time invested together. Just go to Fretzin.

[00:00:15] Steve Fretzin: com to sign up. I’m challenging you. Now enjoy the show.

[00:00:23] Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host. Well,

[00:00:45] Steve Fretzin: hey everybody, welcome to Be That Lawyer.

[00:00:47] Steve Fretzin: I am Steve Fretzin, and I’m just so happy that you’re with me today for another great episode of Be That Lawyer, helping you to be confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. And I always try to bring on the best guests, and today is no different. I’ve got a rock star who’s got a kick ass book that I had a chance to review before we had our podcast.

[00:01:05] Steve Fretzin: How you doing, Rick? Hi, how you doing? Good, good. You don’t mind if I say your book’s kick ass, do you? No, I appreciate

[00:01:12] Rick Watson: it. Actually. I really think it worked out nice.

[00:01:15] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. I think it’s so smart that you, that you did that and you took your sort of knowledge from the industry you’re in and handed it off to the, to the legal community.

[00:01:23] Steve Fretzin: I thought that was really, really very

[00:01:24] Rick Watson: bright. Yeah. I just think that there’s so many similarities between those two businesses. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:01:29] Steve Fretzin: Professional services, you know, a lot of, yeah. Hey, well, you know, everybody, what we do, we want to start off with our quote of the show. We really. I tell you, and I, I don’t want to harp on this, but we’ll get a lot of really positive feedback about the quotes of the show.

[00:01:42] Steve Fretzin: People don’t stop at the quotes. Sure. All right, here we go. This is by Walt Disney. Uh, what you do, do what you do so well that people can’t resist telling others about you. So Rick, first of all, welcome to the show. And then second of all, why a Disney quote? And that’s a good one, but I’m curious.

[00:01:57] Rick Watson: I just, I think Walt Disney was an amazing, ran an amazing business.

[00:02:01] Rick Watson: I think particularly, I mean, his brother was the one that really helped him. Um, but. But he was definitely the mouthpiece of, of, uh, just the vision. And so you have to have both sides. You have to have the vision and you have to have something that people want to come back

[00:02:14] Steve Fretzin: to. Yeah. And I think it’s, it’s also just, you know, you have to be really good at what you do.

[00:02:19] Steve Fretzin: I don’t think you can survive these days. If you’re half assing it and you’re not really getting better. You just stay the same that you were 10 years ago. I don’t think people are surviving too well that way. Hey, Rick, you’re Rick Watson. You’re the author of A Firm Worth Building. You’re the CEO of Protection Point.

[00:02:38] Steve Fretzin: And you run the, was it National Referral Network? That’s a lot of titles.

[00:02:43] Rick Watson: That’s right. I don’t even know that I put all of them. We also have an investment fund, uh, a real estate fund, a number of other things. So yeah, I got my hands

[00:02:51] Steve Fretzin: on lots of things. There’s no dust under your shoes is what I’m guessing.

[00:02:55] Steve Fretzin: You’re right. All right. All right. Well, do me a favor. Give everybody a little bit of background in, uh, leading up to, uh, kind of, you know, what, kind of what you’re up to today that be that lawyer tipping point, kind of mixed in there somewhere if you could. Yeah,

[00:03:06] Rick Watson: so I think that, that I started to realize how similar these different businesses are, and they all struggle with the same issues.

[00:03:14] Rick Watson: And one of those issues, I think we spoke about just briefly was growing professional networks. I think that’s been an area that all three, you know, that accounting is another one of those similar businesses, legal, uh, and financial advisors all deal in, and they all are not great at it. So, and we started coaching folks on that.

[00:03:36] Rick Watson: Just trying to build our own professional networks and realize that there’s a lot that can be done there.

[00:03:42] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I think that’s, that, that can’t be stated enough that the importance of building a professional network and, uh, you know, there’s some, some lawyers that can just do it by advertising, right?

[00:03:51] Steve Fretzin: Their marketing does it all and they don’t really have to get out there and do what we do. I don’t know if that’s the best, the best plan longterm, but that’s, that’s kind of what, what some of them do. And I think the smart ones maybe do a little combination of both. They do the marketing over here and they do the business development networking on the other side of it.

[00:04:08] Steve Fretzin: But what was your, what was your impetus to decide to kind of focus on, on the legal population?

[00:04:13] Rick Watson: Yeah. As I say, I think that those businesses are so similar. So the first beginnings of professional networks that we did were with estate planning attorneys. Okay. We’ve grown it since then, but I think that was the first kernel and we just realized that there were things they were really good at and there were things they were really bad at and a lot of commonalities.

[00:04:33] Rick Watson: And so, you know, we started working with them to build professional networks and, and realized that there’s a bunch of things you have to do to make that actually work.

[00:04:43] Steve Fretzin: All right, let’s play a game. It’s called what are lawyers really bad at doing? And I’ll go first. They’re really bad at getting value from the time they invest in networking.

[00:04:53] Steve Fretzin: I find they just, they just going out and they’re just like having lunches, having dinners, meeting people, playing golf, but it’s not really generating business. I think they’re like, I, sometimes I call them professional meters. So that’s mine. What would you say is top of your list?

[00:05:06] Rick Watson: I think that, you know, to be a, let me face it, many attorneys have very big egos, which is fine.

[00:05:12] Rick Watson: They, they’re great. But the problem is, is getting out of the way of that ego is super important to build A network to build a brand and to work with other professional advisors who want to work with you because they don’t want to get pushed out of the nest from their own clients. So why would they send them over there?

[00:05:30] Rick Watson: You’re gonna be the big, you know, take up all the air. So I think that’s another thing that they’re not very good at, and they could get better at.

[00:05:38] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And I think the other thing I would say is there, they struggle with, and this is a lot of what I work on with attorneys is they struggle with how to leverage their network.

[00:05:46] Steve Fretzin: They might be able to build it wide, meaning meeting a lot of people, but they’re not necessarily always building it deep, meaning specific strategic partners, referral partners that can refer them many, many cases or matters a year over and over and over again. And I think that’s, that’s something that is so critical to the success and sustainability of a law practice.

[00:06:08] Steve Fretzin: And they’re not necessarily out hunting and looking for those folks. They’re just like, hey, if they happen to come along, great. And I think that’s sort of a misstep, miscalculation.

[00:06:17] Rick Watson: Yeah, I think a lot of them can, it’s really easy in trying to build a network to be a taker, not a giver. Right. And who wants to trust a taker?

[00:06:26] Rick Watson: I mean, what happens and this happened to myself is we would send cases to an Attorney and never see anything ever come back Well, we would do that for three or four times five times and then we’d be like, you know what nothing I mean Yeah, so I think that there’s definite room for improvement

[00:06:44] Steve Fretzin: there.

[00:06:45] Steve Fretzin: Yeah I mean, I just found out that one of my friends just hired a company that I engage with They didn’t say thank you, they didn’t call me, they didn’t nothing, and I’m just like, what’s up with that? That’s not, that’s not good. If I send somebody and they actually get the business, like I should be getting a call, you know, or something, an email, thank you, something.

[00:07:01] Steve Fretzin: And so I think, I think it’s, it’s sometimes little things, but you know, the fact is lawyers, as they all know, don’t learn business development, marketing, networking in law school. So I think it’s, it’s, they’re picking it up on their own, like how do we do social media? They’re just sort of figuring it out as they go.

[00:07:14] Steve Fretzin: And I think the smart ones are reading, watching, listening. Engaging coaching and mentors and advisors. I think in your book you mentioned, you know, find a, find a mentor, like find an entrepreneur that you can, that you can, um, you know, learn from and, and, and, and that would, you know, take you out of the wing.

[00:07:30] Steve Fretzin: I did that with a, with a coach and made it, made all the difference. Yeah, I

[00:07:35] Rick Watson: always think it’s funny. One of my friends is a physician and he said, he was brand new. He said, I didn’t realize physicians involved sales, but he goes, ultimately, I have to sell people to come into my business. And I think attorneys are the same way.

[00:07:50] Rick Watson: It’s like, they’re surprised that they have to go and and get. You don’t have to be involved in sales. And one of the most effective ways of getting sales or getting referrals is from other professional advisors, but they won’t do that if it’s not in their interest to do so.

[00:08:06] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. So let’s, let’s get into the weeds on that.

[00:08:09] Steve Fretzin: How do you recommend lawyers should effectively network to develop real business and not be thought of as a taker be thought of as someone that not only is good at what they do, but also could be. Yeah. You know, reciprocal in that relationship. Well,

[00:08:27] Rick Watson: I mean, so I think you’re getting to a point, which is this concept of edification.

[00:08:31] Rick Watson: I think one of the things you can do to make yourself look bigger and better is to edify the people around you. I think it’s the biggest thing that folks don’t want to do. They want to be the big personality in the room. They want to be the leader and everybody else is a fullback. Right. And they’re like, no, one of the things you can do is if you’re going to send that case to the referral, give it some.

[00:08:52] Rick Watson: Give it some momentum and say, look, this account is awesome. You know, I mean, I’ve always had great experiences with him. Send them over so that that account now, when that case comes over from the accountant, you should expect for it to be given to you the same way they should build you up. So I think that’s that’s one thing that, uh.

[00:09:13] Rick Watson: Needs to happen. And, you know, I’ve got several other ideas on that as well.

[00:09:17] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And one of the things that drives me up the wall, and I do this occasionally, but only when I know like for certain it’s going to play out is people make introductions for me, but there’s no reference point. It’s like Steve meet Bob, Bob meet Steve, you know, you guys should talk.

[00:09:32] Steve Fretzin: And should we though? I don’t know. What? You know, my time’s valuable. Oh, should we? Yeah. Should we? I don’t know. What was the setup? There wasn’t a setup. There wasn’t an ask. There wasn’t a. Anything that it drives me nuts because I mean, if somebody’s going to send me, Hey, Steve, here’s a lawyer that, that is looking to develop their book of business significantly.

[00:09:52] Steve Fretzin: And, and I think you 2 would be a great fit and they’re, they’re knowledgeable about that introduction. That’s fine. You know, they asked for it or they, it was discussed, but if it wasn’t discussed, it’s just a blind introduction. Those, those don’t go well.

[00:10:03] Rick Watson: Well, worse than that, I think is when they commoditize you.

[00:10:06] Rick Watson: So they say, here’s my financial advisor. I’ve got a guy for you. This is, this is the greatest or here’s an estate planning attorney. What they’ve done is just made you. I mean, that’s not a great introduction right there. It should be an estate planning attorney who does great work, who I trust and, and hopefully maybe even a little story about them.

[00:10:27] Rick Watson: Yeah. You know, that, that makes them a person, not a thing, if that makes sense.

[00:10:33] Steve Fretzin: Well, in some validation that there’s, there’s, there’s a, what they call it, the, um, uh, the, it’s like a, the shoot, I forgot it, but like, It’s a, how do you get, give trust? It’s like a trust. And I can’t remember the word for it, but you’re like sharing that, that the trust, it’s like, they trust you, you trust this person.

[00:10:51] Steve Fretzin: So you’re now the trust is inherited.

[00:10:54] Rick Watson: Right. You’re transferring that trust. That’s exactly that concept of edification, which is in the book. I mean that, that idea that I just don’t think people do enough of. Yeah,

[00:11:03] Steve Fretzin: I think that’s it. And, uh, and so I always try, unless I know it’s like ironclad that these two people will meet and get along and like it’s gonna be great.

[00:11:09] Steve Fretzin: Or if I’m sending someone business, that’s easy. But I always try to, you know, so I’m gonna speak with you Rick. about an attorney that I think would be great for you to talk to, and here’s why, and this is this, and would you be open to meeting that individual and networking together? And you say, yeah, that’s perfect.

[00:11:24] Steve Fretzin: I love that. Then I make the email introduction, but not until I get that yes from you, am I going to, you know, sacrifice that client or sacrifice your time because I think it’s a good idea.

[00:11:36] Rick Watson: Yeah, we do the same thing, uh, but we do them through zoom. So, you know, the attorneys on the, on the zoom meeting, it takes them five minutes, right?

[00:11:44] Rick Watson: And it’s a quick little nice push into that thing. And they feel like they know the person after that.

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[00:13:27] Steve Fretzin: stand out. One of the most impressive. Things that I learned and I love when I learn because I feel like sometimes I’m not learning enough from people and I want to learn I’m interested in hearing fresh perspectives was this concept of trust compression and I think a if you could define that what tell people what that is and then and then how it works why it works I thought it was I thought it was fascinating the

[00:13:52] Rick Watson: trust compression I just it’s something we came up with I really like it and as you mentioned in the book the thing about trust compression is it turns out that humans.

[00:14:02] Rick Watson: Make decisions about other humans. Based on the number of interactions, not on the length of those interactions, and it is such a strange concept. So I can take an hour meeting, break it into four meetings of 15 minutes, and I’m actually so much more effective with that person. So in, and what got us thinking about it was, um, in the financial industry, the way it typically works is there’s like an hour to an hour and a half appointment, and then they come back for another hour an hour and a half appointment.

[00:14:31] Rick Watson: We broke those into four 15 minute appointments, and it is so much more effective. They remember more. Every, at the end of it, the way their brain thinks is, I’ve had an interaction with that person, and it was positive, and I got something out of it, and this has happened multiple times, so it ages the relationship.

[00:14:51] Rick Watson: I mean, in four meetings, you can have two years worth of, of trust that’s built up, which I think is awesome.

[00:14:59] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, and I don’t think people are thinking that way. I think they’re, they’re thinking the hour and a half lunch is going to pay the bills and like, Hey, I met the guy for an hour and a half. I’m sure he’ll send me stuff and then crickets.

[00:15:09] Steve Fretzin: And that’s, and that’s a, that’s a problem. So I think how we not only meet people multiple times. Um, and there’s more to it than that, right? Then it’s, it’s how are we helping them solve a problem? How are we helping connect them? How are we making them feel good about this? And by the way, they also feel good and more connected when they help us.

[00:15:28] Steve Fretzin: And if we can help them help us even better. Can you, yeah, speak to that a little bit? Yeah, they’re more

[00:15:32] Rick Watson: invested in the relationship, right? I mean, I think that a lot of times we don’t let people participate in the relationship. And again, we’re, we’re always taking when they want to give something, you should accept it.

[00:15:44] Rick Watson: And I think that that’s a, that’s different than taking, right? And it builds trust. So I think all of these things are part of building a real business and not just doing a one thing. I love what you said there, by the way, when you said, you know, I want to be a something about solutions, right? We want to be dealing with problems and stuff.

[00:16:04] Rick Watson: That’s one of the biggest things, you know, back to your attorney game that we’re trying to what they’re not good at. They’re really good at being one thing. And what we’re always trying to teach them is to be stop being one thing. Be everything, be a problem solver. They come to you because they trust you and then you know, they always trust you with the estate planner they, or the personal injury or whatever it is, but they trust you with other things that you, you could use your networks to help answer and

[00:16:33] Steve Fretzin: solve.

[00:16:33] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Well here’s another, another, and I dunno if it’s the time of day or just the me being giddy, but like another game we could play is. Lawyers struggle with, all right, I’m meeting with someone, I don’t have a network, I don’t have business to give people, right, I’m at that stage, or even if they’ve been in doing it for 10 years and they.

[00:16:51] Steve Fretzin: You just can’t always give business away to everybody you meet with. That’s impossible generally. So how do we add value? And I thought, let’s go back and forth and maybe be between the two of us. We give five, six, seven ideas of the lawyers that are listening that they get, Oh, Hey, I would love to go network or I do network with people, but I never know what to give them.

[00:17:08] Steve Fretzin: Like, how am I adding value for them? I’m just been the middle of, you know, try to build my own network. And, and I, I’ll let you start this one, uh, Rick.

[00:17:15] Rick Watson: All right. Well, so I think that first thing that you need to be is referable, likable and referable. Right. I think so often, I mean, we deal with people we like.

[00:17:25] Rick Watson: So I think that being likable and having a business that’s, that somebody would really want to come into. That’s a starting

[00:17:33] Steve Fretzin: point. I think you have, and I would add to that, and this is not counting in my, on my turn, by the way. I’m adding to yours. This is how I play games and get away with it, is also just, they have to be really knowledgeable of they have to be, um, they have to be great at what they do.

[00:17:47] Steve Fretzin: I think that needs to be, that needs to be something that, that the other person perceives that this person really is really good at what they do. And like, if I referred them something, like I wouldn’t regret it. So I think that trust and, and yes, and likeability, but also that they’re an authority is really, really important.

[00:18:03] Steve Fretzin: The one I’m going to take credit for though, is just. Connecting them with someone of value, meaning it could be someone that can do business with them. And if that is possible and you don’t give away your biggest client, right? Give away some, if it’s a small matter or something where you can test them out and give them a piece of business.

[00:18:21] Steve Fretzin: Someone that you know, needs an estate plan. They’re an estate planner. Great. Give them that connection. You feel again, trust, like authority, it’s all there. Give them a shot, you know, and you can even tell your, your brother in law, whoever it is. You know, I, I haven’t worked with this attorney directly. They seemed amazing and knowledgeable and really good.

[00:18:38] Steve Fretzin: And you know, I’m going to, I’m going to introduce you. It’s up to you to decide if it’s a good fit. And that way you’re really not on the hook. Like you made the introduction and maybe if it doesn’t go well, like, you know, they’re going to be mad at you. And then the other one is, is, um, connecting them with, with, um, potential strategic partners.

[00:18:53] Steve Fretzin: So I always ask like, who are the best connectors for you, Rick? And then you’re going to tell me the bright two or three different areas of. You know, estate planners would be one or divorce attorneys would be another or maybe it’s, you know, uh, therapists. I don’t know, but I’m trying to like, then look into my network and Sarah, I don’t have business for this person, but maybe I can connect them with an estate planner with a divorce attorney and try to be some something.

[00:19:17] Steve Fretzin: You know, something that’s going to move the needle forward for

[00:19:19] Rick Watson: them. You’re a problem solver. That’s what I was saying before. So I, I think, uh, you know, it’s funny that you say that I’m going to play the same game you just did and say, just to add to your point, because I think I agree with it, is that we do that right now by sending out, we take one person in our network, have them record content, then slap an attorney’s content on the front of it and in the back of it.

[00:19:43] Rick Watson: Like their info saying this is just an introduction of somebody that I thought would might be helpful. It’s building those networks Wow, I just kind of interesting. It’ll be somebody talking about how to sell your business for example, or or You know why a Roth IRA is important and the attorney now It’s the same concept of what you were suggesting, but it’s not just people but it’s ideas

[00:20:06] Steve Fretzin: I love that.

[00:20:07] Steve Fretzin: I love that. I would add if you’re involved in networking groups and events and there’s things that you’re either running or that you’re a part of inviting people to attend by inviting people. Like I run a provisors group here in Chicagoland. And when I meet somebody really, really exceptional, the most wonderful thing I can do for them is inviting them to come to my group of 35 members who I love and adore and think are amazing people.

[00:20:32] Steve Fretzin: And then walking them around the room and introducing them to who I believe would be the key people for them. How are they going to be anything other than elated when they’re getting that kind of attention from me and then meeting four, five, six people in one shot versus it being a one, you know, one off one on one back and forth that might take, you know, six months.

[00:20:51] Steve Fretzin: I’m just introduced them to some key people in two

[00:20:53] Rick Watson: hours. Yeah, I agree with that. I think another idea to your game is your social media. And, you know, a lot of what you’re suggesting we do through social media, meaning that we’re we have an automated system that introduces we do 50 people a day. So it’s doing that at scale.

[00:21:12] Rick Watson: And it, and the next question, since it’s automated, it says, who are you looking to meet, right? What, what kinds of people would be helpful for you to meet? So we can use reach into our network and help you. So you’re always providing value. People love that we’re not taking, we’re giving.

[00:21:27] Steve Fretzin: Well, you’re not doing the LinkedIn sales pitch in the messaging that everyone loves.

[00:21:32] Rick Watson: Hey, and do you need an estate planning attorney? No. Um, what we’re doing is, uh, is saying, how can we be helpful to you? I noticed this about you and you know, and that goes on back and forth four or five times before it actually warms up to the point where there’s conversations occurring and it pops out of the

[00:21:50] Steve Fretzin: automation.

[00:21:51] Steve Fretzin: Hey, I just thought of the name of this game. I’m going to use this in the future. It’s called yes. And. So, yes, and it’s also good to get to know, to help people out by sharing their content, liking and commenting on their content and sharing their content. They feel connected to you because no one else cared enough to share a post that was important to them, but you did.

[00:22:12] Steve Fretzin: And they’re seeing that on a regular basis of how you’re contributing to helping them build their brand and connect them and sharing it with your network. That’s underrated. And I think it needs to be done more. Bye. Yeah,

[00:22:25] Rick Watson: 100 percent agree with that medicine.

[00:22:26] Steve Fretzin: Yes, you gotta say yes. And

[00:22:28] Rick Watson: yes, and yes, and, um,

[00:22:33] Steve Fretzin: we, I mean, we can, we can call it a day.

[00:22:34] Steve Fretzin: I mean, we just gave probably 6 or 7 good ideas there at about about 5 minutes. So. Running

[00:22:39] Rick Watson: out of ideas for your yes and

[00:22:41] Steve Fretzin: game. Yes. The, the yes. And the idea here, everybody is to be not only to be a giver, but to make sure that you’re being creative in how you’re staying in touch with people, keeping them top of mind, having you stay top of mind.

[00:22:54] Steve Fretzin: And when you talk about, you know, building out your professional network, Rick, you know, it takes some, it takes some time and some attention. Yeah.

[00:23:03] Rick Watson: I mean, I think, you know, we, to get back to that, which we were originally talking about, I think the. Uh, you know, having a really strong story. I think when you show up to somebody and you say, hi, I want to meet you, but really what you’re saying is, hi, I’m hoping you’ll send me leads.

[00:23:18] Rick Watson: Well, that’s

[00:23:19] Steve Fretzin: kind of see that way.

[00:23:20] Rick Watson: That’s kind of a weak story, right? I, I think that there are better ways to do that. What I want to bring you is all of this, right? Hopefully you, you know, the rest of my network would be really, really cool. And I would like to include you in the rest of my network, not, I’m hoping you could send

[00:23:37] Steve Fretzin: me referrals.

[00:23:38] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. No, I think that’s wise. I think that’s wise. And again, you know, they, the more you give and the more people believe that you’re being authentic in that giving, and I actually, I’ll give a quick, this is two cents, and I wrote a book called The Attorney’s Networking Handbook, it’s on Amazon, and there’s a chapter, I talk about the three kinds of networkers, there’s the taker, which we already covered, just trying to sell you stuff.

[00:24:00] Steve Fretzin: There’s the, uh, true giver, which I think you and I fall into that camp, right? And then there’s the sneaky one in the middle I call the apparent giver. The apparent giver is the one who says all the right things, but when it comes to actually taking action and following through and, and being organized or interested enough to, to do the right thing, sort of fails.

[00:24:19] Steve Fretzin: And so I, I’m, I tell people to be really careful because those are the ones that you’ll invest a year or two with thinking it’s all going to come around and it never does. And so I, I work with lawyers on how to qualify those, those suckers out. Uh, not because they’re bad people again, sometimes just disorganization or lack of caring or follow through.

[00:24:37] Steve Fretzin: It’s like that Seinfeld. They took the reservation, but they couldn’t keep the reservation. That’s really the most important part. So Rick, I want to wrap things up with a game changing book. And I think you, you put on your form rework. What tell me about rework? So I

[00:24:50] Rick Watson: love rework. So rework. So, This starts with this idea that you can get information about your business by understanding other businesses, which is sort of counter to the world of that.

[00:25:01] Rick Watson: We are. I’ve got to read books on on law practices. For example. No, you can read books on all sorts of things. Rework is a really simple book to read. You can probably crank it out and about. Two hours and because every one side page is only printed, um, but it’s about a, uh, a, uh, tech company and how they build their tech company.

[00:25:25] Rick Watson: Um, and these companies they built, I think they’ve done like. Eight exits or something like that. Um, and it was just super, I mean, parts of it, you’re like, doesn’t apply to me. Nope. I don’t agree with that, but I thought it was just super helpful in understanding ideas. And I felt like my book kind of worked a little bit with that same thing.

[00:25:45] Rick Watson: It was very direct, a less than three or four pages, and you could move on to. Something else.

[00:25:49] Steve Fretzin: Well, and I think the key to a good book, this is my two cents, is if it’s tactical and actionable. If you’re giving things, ideas, a way that people can actually use versus theory and research. And I, I like theory and research, but tell me what to do.

[00:26:02] Steve Fretzin: Tell me what to say. I mean, Alex Ramosi is, is one of my more recent favorite authors and you know, uh, the hundred million dollar offer, phenomenal. Just great. Just take what you can, pull out the ideas, take what you can and run because you’re not, maybe not going to like everything. So, Rick, if people want to get in touch with you, they want to learn more about a firm worth building or a protection point, what’s the best way for them to reach you?

[00:26:25] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I think

[00:26:25] Rick Watson: the best way is you go on, uh, nrnamerica. com, which is the National Referral Network. Um, the book will pop up there, which is kind of nice. Um, there, it tells a little bit about what National Referral Network does. I’m also, you can easily Google me. At, uh, Rick Watson and, uh, Protection Point Advisors and I just pop right up there and it’s pretty easy to get ahold of me.

[00:26:49] Steve Fretzin: Okay. Very cool. And hey, for everybody listening, just want to, want to take a moment to thank our sponsors. Of course, we’ve got Lawmatics crushing it on, you know, the, the pipeline management, the automating marketing had a great meeting today with. With legalese marketing, helping me with some automations through lawmatics, we’ve got get staffed up in my voice, Sergio, and down in Bogota, Columbia, cranking out marketing for me every single day, taking it off my plate.

[00:27:13] Steve Fretzin: And of course, get visible. If you go to fretson. com, check out my awesome website. Then they do so much more, uh, to help people get, get found. Rick, thank you so much. This has been great. I love that you’re willing to play games today. I was in sort of a frisky mood, if you will. And so, you know, having a couple of games and yes, and is going to be my new thing.

[00:27:32] Steve Fretzin: Uh, but, um, just appreciate you sharing your wisdom and loved your book, man. Really good stuff. Thank you. Appreciate it. Yeah. And thank you everybody for spending time with Rick and I today on Be That Lawyer, always trying to work to help you be more confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. Take care, everybody.

[00:27:46] Steve Fretzin: Be safe. Be well. We will talk again soon.

[00:27:53] Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, Fretzin. com, for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.