Scott Mason: Understanding the Myths and Narratives to Rewrite Our Lives

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Scott Mason discuss:

  • Separating our identities and the roles we play in life.
  • Why many people go to law school…often without knowing what to expect.
  • The relationships between ourselves, myths, and culture.
  • Professional freedom and moving past feeling trapped.

Key Takeaways:

  • What makes you happy is intimately related to who and what you are – it is directly aligned with knowing yourself.
  • Myths are a projection of the stories we tell ourselves about our identities.
  • When you understand your narrative, you can start to be the hero and begin to write the path you choose, not what others are choosing for you.
  • Purpose plus values will lead to your vision of what is possible. Levened with an understanding of your non-negotiables, then you will be able to create your vision and create a plan to make it happen.

“If you’re smart enough to be a lawyer, you’re smart enough to figure out how to survive in this world one way or another. And you’ll probably do better if you’re being true to yourself.” —  Scott Mason

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About Scott Mason: Scott Mason is the Myth Slayer, a transformational executive & leadership coach for unhappy lawyers looking to find professional freedom and live the life of their dreams. After graduating from Columbia Law School, Scott worked for over 20 years as an attorney and C-Suite executive with numerous government and nonprofit organizations before successfully growing and scaling a manufacturing company. Scott’s insights have appeared in book compilations and online magazines as well as on television and podcasts, and he currently sits on the Board of the NYC chapter of the National Speakers Association.

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Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.


[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody. Good news. I have a free copy of my new audio book. Legal Business Development isn’t rocket science. 250 plus easy and actionable ways to grow your book of business in less time and with greater results. Just go to Fretzin. com slash audio book. And get your free copy today and enjoy the show.

[00:00:25] Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

[00:00:47] Steve Fretzin: Well, hey everybody. Welcome to Be That Lawyer. How’s it going? How are you? How am I? I’m doing great. Nice. Glad we had this conversation. Listen, I don’t know what’s going on with me, but I’m, I’m here with Scott Mason and we’re going to have an absolute ball for you the next half an hour. So hopefully you’re buckled in, in your car or you’re dragging your dog around or whatever the hell you’re doing right now.

[00:01:05] Steve Fretzin: But, uh, we’re going to have some fun, uh, be that lawyer. Helping you to become that lawyer, the rain maker that everyone’s talking about at the water cooler. Scott, how are you?

[00:01:14] Scott Mason: I am excellent. I am ecstatic to have the opportunity to be on your show, Steve. It’s going to be a lot of

[00:01:18] Steve Fretzin: fun. Yeah, I thought I’d bring in the low energy guy today and then you showed up.

[00:01:23] Steve Fretzin: So we’ll, we’ll have to deal with that as it happens. But, uh, Scott, it’s so good to have you. We had one of the best pre interview calls, I think, ever, and, like, we were, it was a love fest right from the beginning, and, uh, we’ve already made a bunch of introductions for each other, and doing all this great stuff, and I love when that kind of stuff just happens naturally, and, uh, not with everybody, but, but with you

[00:01:42] Scott Mason: for sure.

[00:01:43] Scott Mason: Absolutely. That’s what being in business is all about. And that’s what being a positive presence in this planet is all about too. I absolutely love it. And I love hanging around podcasters that have high energy. So don’t just talk about my energy. Okay. Yeah. I’ve got

[00:01:56] Steve Fretzin: some energy. I got some energy left. It hasn’t been sucked out of me by life yet, but, uh, we’re working on it.

[00:02:01] Steve Fretzin: All right. So let’s go with the quote of the show. Always a way to start in. It is so simple. Know thyself. And who is that by? That’s, uh, I’m sure some Greek.

[00:02:13] Scott Mason: Absolutely. It was the, yeah, it was the Oracle of Delphi, the mysterious priestess of the god Apollo. You could ask her one question, and her answer was always guaranteed to be right.

[00:02:28] Scott Mason: You had to know yourself well enough to be able to interpret it correctly. If you didn’t, whoa, one to you.

[00:02:36] Steve Fretzin: Okay. That’s a bit heavy. Uh, but I think it, do people know thyself? Do people really know themselves? Is that, or is that a challenge? Most people really kind of put on different faces and have different personas.

[00:02:48] Steve Fretzin: One for the office, one for home, one with the kids, one for the sit, every situation.

[00:02:53] Scott Mason: Absolutely. In fact, it is. It’s so common that it actually can destroy people’s entire careers and their lives. Our identities are separate from the roles that we play in our lives. But if you forget that and the two merge.

[00:03:13] Scott Mason: As happens with lawyers all the time, problems are not far behind. Yeah. On the other hand, once you understand that, you’re setting yourself up for a life that’s epic.

[00:03:23] Steve Fretzin: Hey, and this may, may not surprise many people listening right now as we’re going to get so deep in this with Scott, uh, but Scott Mason is the Myth Slayer.

[00:03:31] Steve Fretzin: Um, he’s a transform, transformational executive leadership coach. And I just, you know, philosophy and I actually took philosophy, religion and, uh, my freshman year in college. And you know what? He’s I dropped it real fast when I realized I was way over my schemes. The professor actually walked up, he goes, are you a freshman?

[00:03:48] Steve Fretzin: I go, yeah. He goes, you know, this is a 300 level course. I said, yeah, I think I’m in the wrong place. It just sounded interesting. So I did it. And then I was like, I got to drop this right now. I’m going to get it.

[00:04:00] Scott Mason: I’m just disappointed to hear you didn’t pick it up later. Well, what, who said

[00:04:03] Steve Fretzin: I didn’t? Oh? No, I didn’t.

[00:04:05] Steve Fretzin: I didn’t. Ah. Ha ha ha. No, I went down a very different path. It, it, nothing, the Greek for me in college had a very different meaning. Right? It meant beavers. It meant parties. It meant getting into trouble. That’s what Greek meant to me in college. But Scott, give us a little bit of your background because you weren’t always the myth slayer.

[00:04:23] Steve Fretzin: There was a time where you were a lawyer, um, you know, practicing the law. So take us back and give us, uh, give us

[00:04:28] Scott Mason: your background. Yeah. Thank you. I grew up in the backwoods of Kansas. And came to New York City where I live now for law school. The minute I set foot on the streets of this city, I knew I’d never leave.

[00:04:39] Scott Mason: I practiced law here for over 25 years. I started out as a litigator, moved into transactional, and then later in house regulatory work. And finalized my first career era as the second in command of New York City’s entire administrative tribunal system. After that, I was chief legal officer for a major nonprofit before I took the journey into entrepreneurialism and Steve, I’ve got to say, I’ve never

[00:05:07] Steve Fretzin: looked back.

[00:05:08] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, a lot of people have that story though, if they, if they make the move and they can get to the point where they. Have some success and they realize while the freedom that you and I get to enjoy and the decision making that we can make in the creativity of the in the creation of who what we do and who we become and how we help others is that’s very exciting and doesn’t mean you have to have a, you know, build it out to a huge, you know, billion dollar company.

[00:05:33] Steve Fretzin: That’s for some people for me. I like having a small business. I like not having no. You know, employees other than, uh, the get staffed up guy, Sergio is listening, uh, right now, maybe not, but so, and then, well, how did you, what was your be that lawyer tipping point? Kind of like something that, that happened in your career that was just like, uh, I don’t know, like, uh, a big change for the better.

[00:05:54] Steve Fretzin: There’s

[00:05:55] Scott Mason: a moment when I knew. That my decision to leave the practice of law behind and step into a new identity was the right one, but it was predicated by a moment of profound fear. And I would say that when that moment of fear turns into a moment of victory of an, an enlightenment, you’ll never be the same.

[00:06:19] Scott Mason: My first entrepreneurial venture was not as a coach. It was as the co owner of a manufacturing company. And there was a holiday party that a group of lawyers that I used to work with was having. And I had maybe been in this new position for a year or less. And when I went to that holiday party, it was at a very glamorous apartment here in New York city.

[00:06:49] Scott Mason: I, without thinking through the lobby of the building and up the elevator, but then I approached the door of the apartment where the party was, and as my hand began to reach towards the knob, Steve, I felt. Fear. Overwhelming. I was just inside imagining them all judging me. Former lawyer, now in the manufacturing sector, having given up the law.

[00:07:16] Scott Mason: Was he a failure? Did he get pushed out of his job? Was he not able to hack it? All this sort of stuff. I almost turned around and walked away out of shame and embarrassment that I was sure that everyone would throw on to me, but something inside enabled me to turn that knob, open that door and walk in when I did.

[00:07:41] Scott Mason: There was a woman that I worked with who had been one of my very favorite people throughout my entire law career who happened to be standing there. She gave me a warm hug and asked me what I was doing. And I told her, but I said, I’m very nervous right now. I don’t know what people will think. I think they’ll all laugh at me or just look down on me.

[00:08:02] Scott Mason: And what she said changed everything. She said, Scott, actually, you’ve got it all wrong. Most of these people, they’re not happy. You’re going to be the bell of the ball. And it turns out she was right.

[00:08:17] Steve Fretzin: Well, that is, I mean, that’s something else. And, and again, I think that we have our identity rooted in, especially in America, the culture is our identity is our job, right?

[00:08:27] Steve Fretzin: So what, you know, who are you? Well, I’m an attorney. Who are you? I’m a coach. Who are you? I’m not, you know, I think in other countries in Europe, etc. I don’t, I don’t know that that’s the case. I think it could be, you know, some other answer than what their occupation is. So why? So it’s interesting that she said that to you and why, why are, why were you unhappy?

[00:08:47] Steve Fretzin: Why are lawyers seemingly unhappy in their lives in the practice of law? What, what is it about the law that’s, you know, Okay. There’s a high suicide rate. There’s a high use of, uh, of drugs and alcohol. There’s a lot of people that are just kind of going through the grind. Why do you think that is?

[00:09:04] Scott Mason: I think there are a number of reasons, all of which are individual and how they apply to the specific people who are in that feeling state, but nonetheless can be generally categorized together.

[00:09:20] Scott Mason: And they have root causes that end up playing out in the profession as a whole. First of all, there are a whole host of people who leave their undergraduate schools without a clear idea as to what they can do with their degrees, like in my case, a literature degree that can pay them any money. And they are probably surrounded by people who have postgraduate degrees anyway, in the professions.

[00:09:48] Scott Mason: They may do a totally rational calculus and say, you know, I’m not going to be good in medical school. I’m not going to be good in business school. I’m certainly not going to be good as an accountant. Law. Okay. All you really need to be able to do is read and write. And those people engaging in a calculus that seems rational are actually ignoring the reality.

[00:10:10] Scott Mason: So. Harsh truth of what law school and law practices like come crashing down on them. And because of the high cost of law school, many of them feel they can’t leave. Number two, there are people who choose their careers sometimes without even realizing it based on social expectations of others. And when happens, you’re setting yourself up to be miserable because really, as you and I both know, and this may seem obvious to people.

[00:10:43] Scott Mason: What makes you happy, intimately related to who and what you are, your ability to, as the Oracle said, know thyself, anytime there’s not that alignment, there’s going to be misery. Finally, there are people that are justice minded and they get out there and they realize the business of law actually many times has very little to do with justice, although a lot of times those people ultimately find themselves on the right path for their

[00:11:09] Steve Fretzin: desires.

[00:11:10] Steve Fretzin: Right. Or they get into it for justice and then realize that, you know, they’re just like, like you said, reading and writing all day. It’s not necessarily about justice. It’s about, you know, you know, squabbles between business professionals or, or other things like that are, you know, mundane tasks that they can do over and over and over again.

[00:11:26] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. So it’s interesting and, and I’m seeing it quite a bit too. And the people that engage me, you know, many of them are highly successful at the law and also at business and they want to keep getting better at the business side of things. And I feel like, It’s not necessarily the only recipe for happiness, but it’s one of them.

[00:11:43] Steve Fretzin: It’s one of the roots is to have that control and freedom over your career where you have your own clients. At least that gives you some level of, you know, control over like how you spend your time and who you spend it with and what work kind of work you do. I know like we talked before that your signature coaching program is rooted in of all things Greek myths.

[00:12:03] Steve Fretzin: So how, how on earth Can Greek myths help an unhappy attorney find a life that they will

[00:12:08] Scott Mason: love? Steve, why on earth would anyone ask that question? Isn’t it obvious?

[00:12:14] Steve Fretzin: Not to

[00:12:15] Scott Mason: me. Right. Well, probably to no one. Right. Everyone’s listening right now going, what? Yeah, where’s this going? This is out of the blue. Let me explain it this way.

[00:12:26] Scott Mason: is mythology. On the one hand, it can easily be defined as a series of stories that relates to supernatural events that are on some level or another explanatory. Each of these stories is always driven and finds its resonance through the subtext, through the underlying metaphor that the myth It represents through the lesson that it is trying to teach.

[00:12:54] Scott Mason: That’s why these things speak to us. What a myth then is, and what mythology is, is the collection of stories provide the underlying identity for the individuals that constitute a culture. These myths are merely Social projections of the stories that we tell ourselves internally that represent our own identities.

[00:13:27] Scott Mason: Greek myths is a, are powerful transformational tools for attorneys seeking to change their lives because they go as to the narratives we tell ourselves that define who we are and the narratives that we tell ourselves and the roles that we play in those narratives. Aren’t just backward looking, but they drive our futures, including our professional futures.

[00:13:54] Scott Mason: If we’re able to wrap our arms around these narratives, if we’re able to categorize them, identify them and understand where they will take us, then we’re positioned to shift them, rewrite our narratives. And live lives that are not only heroic, but I would argue are tantamount to being a professional Olympian, just like the ancient gods.

[00:14:18] Scott Mason: No,

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[00:16:02] Steve Fretzin: stand out. It would, I think, help me and I think it would help people listening to have you just take a moment or 60 seconds or two minutes, whatever you need to just give us an example of how a Greek myth helps people start to understand their, you know, could guide them or could help them with their, with their role or their identity.

[00:16:23] Scott Mason: Absolutely. Let’s say, because we mentioned it a few minutes ago, and we’re going to talk about this a little more later, I suspect, that you are someone who became an attorney, and I know someone who was in this exact situation. She ended up disbarred because that’s where her personal myth. Led her. Yeah.

[00:16:41] Scott Mason: Let’s say you wanted to be a fashion designer. That was who and what you are. You were an artistic spirit, but everyone in your family was an attorney, an accountant, or some sort of post-graduate professional like that, and your family, because of the business that owned, needed to have a lawyer working for it anyway.

[00:16:58] Scott Mason: So there’s parental pressure from the time you are a child. To grow up and be an attorney is the origin story. That ultimately, unless you choose to break it, drives where your career goes. Well, there is an entire genre of mythology that relates to the origin of the characters within it. If you’re able to say, Okay, I’m living out what I call the tragic origin myth.

[00:17:26] Scott Mason: Or the social myth, which is a myth that you, that is representative of behaviors that come from and are rooted in the social expectations of others, you’re better positioned to say, whoa, maybe I can write something different. Maybe I can stop being. Maybe I can stop being the bystander that gets eaten by the monsters.

[00:17:51] Scott Mason: In other words, by the circumstances in their lives, start to be the hero and write a different path. When you write that different path, you’re putting yourself in a place where you can then begin to put a plan into place to make it happen.

[00:18:05] Steve Fretzin: Is that considered that one of the, the, I know we’re going to talk about toxic myths.

[00:18:08] Steve Fretzin: Is that considered one of those toxic

[00:18:10] Scott Mason: myths? Yes. We just went through the social myth and the tragic origin myth. Two of the five toxic myths. Absolutely. Okay.

[00:18:18] Steve Fretzin: So what are so that those are good examples? I think yeah, I’m fortunate in that I don’t think my my father and my grades agreed that that I’d be a lawyer wasn’t in the cards for me So I don’t think he had any expectation whatsoever.

[00:18:31] Steve Fretzin: He did put in into me and my sister You know, the importance of working for yourselves. And I think that even though I worked in a number of companies and corporations and things like that, I always had it in the back of my head that someday if I found the right thing that I was going to work on my own.

[00:18:45] Steve Fretzin: So I think that’s I don’t know if that’s not toxic. That was healthy. I think,

[00:18:49] Scott Mason: uh, for you, for me, if you were not entrepreneurial in your greatest nature, it actually would have been a talk. Okay.

[00:18:55] Steve Fretzin: Okay. So there you go. All right. Just flipped it on me. Nice job. Uh, all right. So what are some, what are some other examples of toxic myths?

[00:19:03] Steve Fretzin: Okay.

[00:19:03] Scott Mason: There are three other main categories. One is the ritual myth. The ritual myth occurs when you have ritualized your mindset, your reactions, or your behaviors based on a need that you may have had at one point in your life. But that is no longer there. So for instance, let’s say you left college broke and without prospects.

[00:19:27] Scott Mason: And so you decided that you needed to practice law in order to get yourself financially secure, but then you’re financially secure 10 years later and your life is awful. You’re actually living out the ritual myth because you’re continuing in a behavior pattern. Staying employed as a lawyer that’s no longer serving you.

[00:19:46] Scott Mason: That’s the third of the five. The fourth is the underworld myth. That’s when you believe your life, your future, everything around you exists in spiritual, existential, physical, or emotional darkness. So, people are living that myth when, let’s say, they practice law for 15 years, but then after a while, it’s played out.

[00:20:13] Scott Mason: They hate it. They like the money, but as you mentioned at the top of the show, they are escaping the emotional poverty of their lives by drinking or by engaging in drug use or a whole host or just by checking out. They’re living out the underworld myth because they can’t. Finally, the doomsday myth. It’s somewhat similar, but in its outcome and in how it’s dealt with, different than the underworld myth.

[00:20:41] Scott Mason: The doomsday myth is basically characterized by someone who sees disaster anytime they engage in change. I hate being a lawyer. It’s miserable. If I look for a different career option, I’m going to let my family down. I’m going to be poor. I’ll never make this money again. And if I don’t make this money again, my entire family and I will end up bankrupt and starving and on skid row.

[00:21:10] Scott Mason: That’s the doomsday myth. It is a myth. If you’re smart enough to be a lawyer, you’re smart enough to figure out how to survive in this world one way or another. And you’ll probably do better if you’re being true to yourself.

[00:21:23] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. So it sounds like you’re, you’re in a position where you can meet with attorneys and identify sort of which toxic myth they’re living because it probably falls under one of those if they’re having company with, with their issues.

[00:21:36] Steve Fretzin: You’re figuring that out. And then once you understand it, then how, how do you help lawyers overcome to live their best life and to get out of that myth?

[00:21:45] Scott Mason: That’s when the magic happens. We take a visit to the Oracle. There is a process that I’ve developed and brought into my signature program that enables them to really dig into their past to understand who and what they were before these myths took over.

[00:22:03] Scott Mason: As well as to identify key strengths that they might be underleveraging or have forgotten about. We then apply what’s called the purpose formula to help them figure out their unique reason for being. And from the beginning of the program, I also have them document their values. Purpose plus values really ultimately are what lead to your vision as to what Uh, is possible leavened with a little bit of a, well, actually not a little bit, but a significant understanding of what are your non negotiables, what you can’t give up.

[00:22:34] Scott Mason: When that happens, we can literally write up a vision for their future and then put together a plan to make it happen. Yeah. Wow.

[00:22:41] Steve Fretzin: That sounds really, really good. And, is it something that can happen fairly quickly? Is it something that takes a lot of time and a lot of effort? I mean I don’t know the process.

[00:22:51] Steve Fretzin: So, you know, my sister’s a therapist, so I know she holds on to people for ever, uh, and I mean, that would love that people don’t, you know, once they find that they can talk to her, they’re not going anywhere. But it sounds like you’re, you’re going for more of a transformational type of approach here.

[00:23:06] Scott Mason: Exactly. And with Um, action as ultimately the, the transformational goal. Now I have clients who I’ve worked with for years because once they put together their plan and they know where they want to go, they want that support. They want that accountability. And I’m more than happy to work with them on that.

[00:23:23] Scott Mason: But let’s say, uh, they are a very, very fast worker. They meet with me regularly. They do their homework. They commit to it. The entire program could be done in three to four months, depending on what version they have. Sometimes six. And then they’re ready to go. They just need to actually move and make their vision happen and follow their

[00:23:41] Steve Fretzin: plan.

[00:23:42] Steve Fretzin: Okay. Okay. And is that something you would consider leading to something like professional freedom or independence or like how, how does that then impact a life of that individual?

[00:23:53] Scott Mason: The goal that I have for every client is professional freedom. Uh, attorneys in particular, you know, in the nineties, there was a play.

[00:24:05] Scott Mason: It might’ve been on Broadway or it may have been off Broadway, but in this play, the lawyers who were the main characters, I think they were four of them that wore suits were literally standing in a box on the stage, attempting to move around and navigate the symbolism of that is quite. Obvious. People are usually unhappy as attorneys because on some level or another, whether it is from an ambition perspective or a time perspective or a, uh, personal fulfillment perspective, trapped.

[00:24:38] Scott Mason: When I mentioned earlier that we develop a vision and that it’s tied to things like purpose and values, well, what will make you feel free? I consider professional freedom where you are most aligned with who and what you are. You’re meant to be without ending up unable to make a living. And so for some people, that could be merely switching to a different type of law.

[00:25:04] Scott Mason: Others, it could be moving into a leadership position, either at the firm or in a company. Others, it could be entrepreneurship. It could be like me going full on creative and going as far away as possible from where you started out. All of those things are freedoms. All of those things are individuated.

[00:25:23] Scott Mason: All of those things we explore.

[00:25:25] Steve Fretzin: Well, you went far, but you didn’t stray that far. You’re still working with attorneys. So, you have that going, you know.

[00:25:31] Scott Mason: Well, that’s fair enough. And, you know, for a lot of attorneys, though, they can’t see themselves as anything other than straight on practitioners. There’s so much more possible.

[00:25:44] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, so if we, if we go back and we look at, at all these, these toxic myths and we look at where people, I mean, my, my, as I mentioned earlier, my angle is I can’t fix, like, I’m not going to be, I’m not a therapist, although I sometimes play one on TV. Uh, I’m not, you know, Tony Robbins. I’m not here to have people walk on coals.

[00:26:06] Steve Fretzin: I can, I’m You know, find the right pair of shoes for the right ass at times, if you know what I’m saying. Um, however, I do believe that a lot of the, a lot of attorneys are missing the boat by not developing their book, developing their personal brand, building independence so that no matter where they are, in house, On their own at a firm, they can kind of take their own show where they want to take it.

[00:26:33] Scott Mason: I’m so glad you say that. Um, so glad you just said that let’s be absolutely honest and this day and age, especially as secure as a job with any employer is job and its security can turn in a minute all the time. I hear attorneys or other professionals that I’ve worked with who are in large organizational settings say, Well, I’m stable here.

[00:27:08] Scott Mason: I can rely on that paycheck. No, you can’t.

[00:27:15] Steve Fretzin: No, well, so 2008, 2008 to 2009 recession demonstrated that in full color 3d and got me pulled into the industry. I wasn’t working with lawyers before that recession and now I’m completely embedded in the industry and that’s never going to happen again. Nothing ever like that will happen again or will it?

[00:27:37] Steve Fretzin: You know, right? Like that’s like, I just look around at the world and there’s just no way things can be stable forever because yeah. It’s just, there’s too much bad going on and too much craziness going on. Um, but I can’t, you know, lead a horse to water. I can lead the horse to water. I can’t make the horse drink, et cetera.

[00:27:53] Steve Fretzin: So I really, you know, it really takes someone almost coming after me in some way for me to, you know, find them because most lawyers are hiding from this, this extra step, this extra work that is business development, marketing, personal branding that Can help them redefine themselves within the legal space.

[00:28:15] Steve Fretzin: If you

[00:28:17] Scott Mason: can sell, you will never starve. That to me is the key as to why developing a personal brand, developing a core that is separate from your job role and being able to build a business development is. Uh, as a skill is of life or death importance for anyone. Look, Steve, I worked for the government and my last job, I left it without another job.

[00:28:47] Scott Mason: Why? Because I was so miserable and my boss and I were at such odds, I couldn’t stay there. Even government wasn’t. That stable. So you’re absolutely right. If you don’t have that core, and if you don’t have those basic skills, you’re never going to be able to find a freedom, which is why in my own program, once they develop their vision and I build a plan out with them, we talk about things like, well, what are you going to represent?

[00:29:16] Scott Mason: Who were you going to be serving? How are you going to differentiate yourself from anywhere else? I mean, you can’t bounce back a lot of times if you don’t have those things in place. What you’re doing has real value because of that.

[00:29:31] Steve Fretzin: Well, I think, I think it’s just so interesting what, what you’re into and the angle that you’re taking is so very unique and, uh, I just appreciate it.

[00:29:38] Steve Fretzin: Um, let’s wrap things up a little bit here with your game changing podcast. And I think I know what this is and I’m already a

[00:29:45] Scott Mason: fan. The Lawyer’s Edge by the one and only Elise Holzman. I met her, and I have to say, get the three of us in the room, there will be no stopping the fun. I felt like I had a new best friend with her until I met you, then all of a sudden I had a new best.

[00:30:01] Scott Mason: Y’all are just keeping me full of all new best friends. It’s the

[00:30:04] Steve Fretzin: best. Well, lawyer coaches all have one thing in common, and that is, generally speaking, we’re a good time. So, uh, but yeah, I was on a Lisa’s podcast, I think I was on a Lisa’s podcast or she was on mine or she’s coming on mine. There’s, there was definitely some, some, some back and forth with us.

[00:30:21] Steve Fretzin: And she’s, she’s terrific. And I, you know, I love to be, you know, to have other folks that do things similar to me that I can refer when, when they need something that’s different from them or I need something different for me. Um, but she’s, she’s top shelf, um, really, really good. And um, so check that out, everybody, Lawyer’s Edge.

[00:30:39] Steve Fretzin: As we wrap up, want to take a moment to just thank our wonderful sponsors. Of course, Get Staffed Up, um, keeping people, um, their marketing, all that, all the stuff we talk about delegating. You need to have someone, a VA, somebody to delegate to. It’s one of the ways to live your best, you know, professional life.

[00:30:55] Steve Fretzin: Self, uh, number two, we’ve got, of course, get visible, helping people on the marketing side, digital marketing websites, and they’re fantastic. You can always check out frets and dot com to see some of their great work. And of course, lawmatics helping you to get again, get organized and make sure that you’re, you know, Taking your smoke ball and your practice panther and your cleo to the next level with that type of automation And uh, you know have a little um, little pipeline management some automation Really, really good.

[00:31:20] Steve Fretzin: Um, Scott, if people want to get in touch with you, they want to learn more about your coaching. They want to check out your website. What’s, what are your digits?

[00:31:27] Scott Mason: My Freedom, my Freedom That’s Scott Mason Central.

[00:31:35] Steve Fretzin: My Freedom Rocks. That’s like an old commercial from the, from the eighties.

[00:31:39] Steve Fretzin: What do you listen to? Freedom Rock . Is that Freedom

[00:31:42] Scott Mason: Rock? You know, that had never occurred to me until now, but even though I’m only 26. I grew up on 80s music, so I consider that a compliment.

[00:31:52] Steve Fretzin: I think it was actually going back to the 60s and 70s of like, you know, peace, love and rock and roll, but that’s okay.

[00:31:57] Steve Fretzin: It was a fun career. We won’t talk about that. No, no, 80s, 80s are, are my favorite and my, my teenager as well. Um, Scott, thanks so much, man. I appreciate you being on the show, sharing your wisdom, uh, your Greek, Greek wisdom in a sense. Um, and I just, uh, this is a lot of fun. I know that you and I have a lot more to do after, after today.

[00:32:15] Steve Fretzin: Amen. Yeah. Awesome, man. Thank you everybody for spending some time with, um, with Scott and I today, of course, helping you every single day that we can to be that lawyer, someone who’s confident, organized and a skilled rainmaker. Take care everybody. Be safe. Be well. We’ll talk again soon.

[00:32:35] Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website Fretzin. com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal. Ben. Business Development and Marketing Trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.