Steph Vaughan-Jones: Lessons from the Quotes of the Show

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Steph Vaughan-Jones discuss:

  • Hiring the right people for the right job.
  • Being flexible to find success.
  • Getting closer to your customer.
  • Developing relationships and developing leaders.

Key Takeaways:

  • People fear mistakes – that is why they don’t take risks. Mistakes are not a failure, they are a chance to learn and further your success.
  • Recognize the potential in the people on your team. If you put them in the right role, they will shine.
  • Stay close to your client – ask questions and identify the needs they have (even if they don’t yet realize it).
  • The best teachers are those who do it well.

“62% of calls are for urgent matters. Nothing can beat that phone call, and that human interaction.” —  Steph Vaughan-Jones

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Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

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business, lawyer, quote, clients, moneypenny, people, helping, customers, book, steve, role, important, life, stephanie, team, development, ideas, legalese, practice, seeds


Narrator, Stephanie Vaughn Jones, Steve Fretzin


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [00:01]

And actually, what we’ve realized as well as 62% of those calls are actually for an urgent or sensitive issue. So yeah, there’s lots of other methods, isn’t there social media, there’s live chat there’s filling the form out on a website, but nothing can beat that phone call and that human interaction.


Narrator  [00:22]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer Coach Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.


Steve Fretzin  [00:44]

Hey everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I am Steve Fretzin and as the announcer mentioned and you know, it’s a lovely day here in Chicago with cold and snow and wind and everyone’s miserable so it’s not great. Actually. No, it’s fine. We love it here in Chicago. We don’t have a problem. We’re not you know, beautiful weather like down in Atlanta write stuff down in Atlanta.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [01:04]

Um, yes, in Atlanta is a little bit gray actually at the moment, but you says sunny blue skies, and looking good for next week, I


Steve Fretzin  [01:12]

believe. Are you now a Southern Belle, you know about Southern belles. I did


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [01:17]

not far off, you know, it’s a it’s a beautiful place to be. If I could be anywhere in America, it would be in the south, and our website is second to none.


Steve Fretzin  [01:24]

And you have that Southern belle accent I can tell. So that’s impressive. Born and raised. Okay, well, we’re gonna get back to stuff in a minute. I want to welcome everybody to the show. And if you’re the first time visiting us today, this show is all about helping you to be that lawyer, someone who’s confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker, and my job every single week, twice a week, actually, is to bring you great guests, interview them, pull out the nuggets, pull out the tips and the ideas that are going to help you as a practicing attorney. Get ahead. And today is no different. We always start off the show with a quote of the show. And guess what, it ain’t happening today. It’s just not. And you’ll find out in a few minutes why that is. But I want to introduce Stephanie Vaughn Jones, who’s a good good friend of mine and a good friend of the show with money, Penny, as you may have heard, one of our sponsors, one of our beautiful, wonderful sponsors. So Stephanie, welcome to the show. We’d love to hear you talk a little bit about your background and how you got into working with money, Penny.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [02:19]

Well, thank you very much. It’s an absolute pleasure to be invited on to the show. So I’m Steph Vaughan Jones and I head up the business development for Moneypenny. And I’m actually from a beautiful place in Wales called Wrexham and you may have heard of recent documentaries called Welcome to Wrexham Ryan Reynolds and Rob McEleney have actually just purchased our football club. So it’s on the map now and doing really well. And I’ve actually been with Moneypenny for 14 years, but dominantly in a business development role, and I’m really passionate about what I do. And I love to watch businesses flourish and actually achieve their customer journey goals and money any offer outsource communications to 1000s of businesses all over the world. And we actually captured a staggering 20 million communications last year and they consist of telephone answering and live chat and lead generation outbound


Steve Fretzin  [03:11]

yeah really, really great. And I love the show Wrexham I’ve watched the first season LMRA even want to know like how they’re doing this year because I don’t want to ruin next season for myself, so I haven’t been keeping up with them. But I’m a huge premier league soccer fan football fan and also love the show all or nothing. Did you get a chance to see that arsenal?


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [03:31]

No, I have not today.


Steve Fretzin  [03:33]

Oh my god. So good. So good. You don’t even have to be like a football fan sacrificing football soccer for the Yanks that you know, because it’s just such a well produced show and it’s so motivating. In fact, I just wrote an article for the Chicago Daily law bulletin referencing the you know, the heart of you know, a lie in in the passion you have to have to be on the on the field and play your heart out and what it takes for lawyers to do to build a book of business. It’s not that different. So


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [04:00]

it’s a lifelong commitment. You know, a very close family member of mine actually plays in the Premier League and He’s dedicated his life to it so it’s definitely it’s definitely hard work but it pays off dividends if you’re if you’re committed to it. Yeah Should


Steve Fretzin  [04:14]

be good paying off dividends you work you hustled and, and you’ve done graded money Penny and you got a game, be that lawyer tipping point. What tell talk to us about that.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [04:23]

So oh gosh, I came over to Atlanta on a secondment, actually to head up the BD here. And typically in the UK, we have a really strong foothold. And in the legal sector. My background was actually developing the health care division from scratch. But actually I had a little bit of a handle on the legal side of things. So when we came out here, it just made sense actually, as part of our BD plan to focus on the legal sector. Hence our conversations with you, Steve, and then you know that in turn, then sponsoring your podcast, and we’ve had some wonderful opportunities from it. And I think it’s given us a lot of coverage and in essence, I’ve learned a lot as well from you and a lot of They’re the coaching corners that I’ve attended in the meeting. So it’s been a really great experience all in all, yeah,


Steve Fretzin  [05:05]

I’m thrilled with our relationship and all the things we’ve been doing together. And just so happy to have you finally on the show. And, and I want to share with everybody, the reason we didn’t do a quote of the show at the beginning of the show, like we normally do is because this show is all about the quotes of the show. And so Stephanie put together a wonderful list of quotes that are meaningful to her, and I believe will be meaningful to you and me as well. And so what we’re going to do is we’re going to share the quote, and then we’re going to each kind of talk about why that quote is important and potentially usable for you and your life and your career building law practice. So, Steph, you want to jump in and take over from here, and then I’ll jump in, we’re in this unnecessary.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [05:47]

Yeah, sure. So the first quote of the show, if you like, is you don’t build a business, you build people, and then the people build the business. And that’s a quote by Zig Ziglar. So typically, in the years that I’ve spent at Moneypenny, we’ve always kind of tried to put the right people doing the right roles, kind of recognizing their potential, and, again, has paid dividends to us because actually, it helps our business grow. And a great an example of that is Sam, who works on our team, he actually started Moneypenny as a PA. And then he moved to it. And he’s been with it for many years. And now he’s in an account manager role. But actually, what we recognize in Sam was that he dealt with every single person in our business, and there’s probably over 100 of us and our UK office, he was really confident, and actually really patient because of all the IT issues he had to deal with, with all of the staff. So actually, this account manager role was perfect. And it just shows how we’ve built him up. And it’s helped build our business. And actually, it’s hiring people who can do the right job and maximizing their skill skill set. And I’m sure with attorneys, you know, their got their head in work, and they didn’t want to be answering the phone, for example, or triaging a personal injury case claim that comes through on live chat. And so it’s looking after your people. And another conversation I had actually with my CEO, and recently, she said to me, staff, I’m here to serve you. So you poke me for anything you need from me, because actually, I need to give you the tools to be successful. And that in turn makes my life easier. And it means I’m servicing my clients quicker, and then Joanna’s hate because we’re reaching our target. So our motto really is happy staff equals happy clients. And it’s a no brainer.


Steve Fretzin  [07:28]

Yeah, and I would go so far as to say that the number one element that keeps lawyers from success in building a book of business and running a law firm and managing and is about their team, that could be an internal team, that could be VA, that could be outsourcing vendors, whatever it might be their lack of hiring and bringing in and training and getting the right people in the right seats under them to do the work that they shouldn’t be doing. They should be focusing on high level solutions, and, and business development and marketing, not anything administrative, anything relating to reception, anything related to technology, all that stuff. And I think that’s, you know, kind of what I take from this this quote, too is you got to build the people, because that’s what ultimately is going to make that lawyer successful.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [08:19]

100% Steve, completely agree.


Steve Fretzin  [08:22]

Awesome. Awesome. Well, let’s go on to the next one, which I think is just wonderful in ruminator, if you’re have to explain that to me, but but take it from the top stuff.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [08:30]

So I love this one as well. Stop acting small, You are the universe in ecstatic motion, set your life on fire and seek those who can fanned the flames. So to me, this represents thinking big, acting big, and it’s okay to fail. And no idea is a bad idea. And just be flexible to switch directions. And I also think it’s really important to create a safe place to make those mistakes or to take those risks, because they might be a success. And listen to the opinions of everybody. And actually, it’s okay, we all make mistakes. And I talk about that because actually, people fear mistakes. And that’s why they don’t take the risks. And I think embracing new CRM systems, new ways of working, and new marketing ideas can bring amazing things. And a little example of that is many years ago, we invested time and energy into a pocket phone system for our clients, because we thought it was going to be a really valuable product. And we spent a lot of time and money on it. But actually it didn’t take off. So we said right and we moved on. But actually a big success at Moneypenny was our acquisition with voice nation that brought us to Atlanta. So we actually merged with voice nation just before the pandemic, and it’s really accelerated our business growth in the US. And that was a really big risk that we took that was a real success. So it’s been an incredible journey.


Steve Fretzin  [09:51]

Yeah, but I think taking some risk is important for two reasons. One is you know, make makes you know, make you can make, take risks and make small mistakes. I don’t think you have to bet the farm on everything. And that’s not necessarily a recipe for success. And the other thing is, there’s no other way for us to learn what will work or what will fail or what how do we, you know, improve without taking risks. And without those failures, and I, I can tell you just in my life, I’ve started five or six businesses and right now I have one. So that goes to show you, you know, not all of them work out one was sold, a number of them were just kind of closed down. And that’s okay. Because every single time I learned what I love, and what I don’t love, and what works and what doesn’t work, and how to get people bought in, or they’re never going to buy it. So I think that that it who’s ruminator what is that?


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [10:37]

So Rumi is a gentleman that I follow quite closely, actually, in many of his quotes, I am very fond of him, because I picked that one because I use them quite a lot on my own social and in my own life. So yeah,


Steve Fretzin  [10:50]

yeah, I wasn’t sure because I’m old. So you go, what do we have up next up.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [10:56]

So get closer than ever to your customer. So close, in fact, that you tell them what they need before they realize it themselves. And that Steve Jobs. So again, you know, through my experience in BD and account management, you know, having constant contact with your customers is so important. So survey them, arrange focus groups with them, ask them questions, but more importantly, listen to what they have to say. So I think if you put the work in to really know your customers, you can adapt and learn new ideas, and actually join the pandemic. I know it was three years ago now. But it’s still, you know, a massive part of our working life hybrid working and the way we’ve changed the way that we run our businesses, lawyers call volumes, for example, that highlight to us that they needed outbound calling to triage leads that were coming in, say, for personal injury claim. So I’ve actually, we piloted outbound lead generation teams, and they’ve been really successful. And now it’s a fully fledged product. And also, we develop a Microsoft Teams integration. And that was a result of listening to our customers realizing the situation we were in, and now we integrate with teams for many of our clients. And that’s been a regional success as well. And I think as well, another important thing that we’ve done is staying close to our clients has been able for us to share data with them. And then they can look at their resourcing models, and then they’ve got transparency over what’s happening with their businesses. So we’re able to suggest ideas on how they can improve efficiencies within their business as well. Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [12:25]

And I’d say the number one business development tip I can give attorneys is to stay close to their clients, because when you are on the phone with them, and they say and every lawyer knows this happens. Oh, yeah, well, you know, there’s one of the problems I’m having, can you help me with this? And it’s a whole new matter, they just picked up or weighed across market? Or Doesn’t your firm do something like that, and now you’re bringing in a new matter. So just being close and being top of mind and getting on the phone and talking with a client will bring in business? Or if you’re even smarter than that, you know, ask questions, and identify other needs that they may have, that they hadn’t even realized. So for example, they don’t have a partnership agreement in place, they just have a great partner. Nope, agreement in place, while they didn’t even realize they needed an agreement in place for that. And so now you’re talking about that, now you’re doing an agreement for them. And that’s, you know, X amount of dollars. So, I think I think getting in front of clients and staying tight with them. I took a client out for dinner last night to celebrate him hitting well over 2 million. And, you know, this is, this has not only been a 10 year friend and relationship, but you know, I think we’re gonna run know each other when we get old, you know. So that’s the kind of stuff that I think creates, you know, not only long term relationships, but referrals and new, more business and stickiness that you’re just not going to get if you’re not getting closer than ever to your customers.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [13:48]

Yeah, definitely, you know, a lot of our reoccurring revenue comes from new products and talking to our clients is so important. It really is, we find out what we’re not doing right or what we are doing right. And we can celebrate that and, you know, really accentuate what we’re doing. So all makes sense.


Steve Fretzin  [14:02]

Right on, and we’re going to take a little double dip here, go to Steve Jobs again. So what else you have from Cindy jobs.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [14:09]

So I think this is quite fitting really for current times at technology alone isn’t enough. So we’re all talking about AI and how awesome technology is, and it is don’t get me wrong, but when it doesn’t work, this was awful. So I think it’s having a foolproof solution and using new tech ideas, but working in synergy with humans as well. So for example, we will have an amazing live chat service, but behind that there’ll be a real human having a conversation. So live chat is awesome. But if there’s nobody behind the chat, it doesn’t work. And it’s useless. And actually, you know, some businesses have the IVR the interactive voice responses so when you call up press one for new business to for existing clients, etc. But actually if somebody’s a new client and they want to get through to somebody and just speak to someone, they perhaps don’t want to go through that technology, and they just want the human interaction straightaway, so it’s just being really clever about incorporating tech, but having the foolproof human behind it and I think it’s a bit of a winner.



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Steve Fretzin  [16:36]

Yeah, I mean, I’ve been on, you know, hold when going down rabbit holes with phone trees that make me want to just pull my hair out. And you know, there’s a bank and in particular that I’m thinking about right now. I love the banker, but the bank is terrible. And I’m just like Holy mackerel, I loved I don’t want to leave the banker, but I hate the bank.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [16:54]

Oh, Steve is the story of my life, you know, obviously, in the role I’m in. And actually, you know, we’ve actually conducted a global call trend report across the US and UK, a 35% of customers still prefer to use the phone. And actually, what we’ve realized as well as 62% of those calls are actually for an urgent or sensitive issue. So yeah, there’s lots of other methods, isn’t there social media, there’s live chat, there’s filling the form out on a website, but nothing can beat that phone call. And that human interaction.


Steve Fretzin  [17:26]

Yeah. And so I think there’s a role for technology we all know, there is and it’s continuing to be heightened all the time. But ultimately, you know, the goal is for to take away the the kind of tasks that take our time, not that they take take our you know, very high level important jobs.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [17:40]



Steve Fretzin  [17:42]

All right, we have another one. This is from an old time, very wise man.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [17:49]

So a sign of a good leader is not how many followers you have, but how many leaders you create, like Ghandi. So here we go talking about people. Again, for me, this represents using people for their strength, sharing knowledge, sharing contacts, helping each other. And we rather than use the word delegate here, use the word elevate. So we’re elevating and empowering our people to use their strengths. So this as successful as possible. So I think it’s celebrating ideas and people. And sometimes it can feel threatening if somebody is treading on your territory, or they might be better at something than you. But I think in my experience working with many different people, you know, within a BD role, I think the more that you can build somebody up and help them then the more successful you will be as a team. And a nice example of that is before I came over here, I had young lady called Lauren shadowing me in a business development role. And I tried to teach her everything I know, and I was self taught. And my CEO, Joanna and many other people have helped me along the way, but I’ve kind of like found my own way with business development and found which formulas work for me. But I just gave Lauren all of the knowledge I had and welcomed her into the team and shared my contacts. And when I came over here, it was perfect, because she’s now taken over my role in some capacity in the UK, and she’s doing an amazing job. And I do feel a little bit proud, really. And obviously, she’s bringing her own amazing experience to the table as well. So I think share. And another little saying I have as many hands make light work. And I believe that as a team, you can achieve great things when you work together.


Steve Fretzin  [19:24]

Yeah, I think there’s a concern by lawyers that they’re grooming their associates, you know, for partner and they’re teaching them all their skills, and they’re helping them to develop, you know, business and whatever it might be. And their concern is well, they’re just going to take all that and they’re going to leave me and leave the firm and go off on their own. Well, okay, but that’s, you know, let’s celebrate that if you know, you would you rather not have had that person under you and and doing your work and working effectively for the firm for X number of years. Yeah, we want we should the point of creating leaders, they’re not always going to stay with you. You know, sometimes leaders are going to lead and that’s going to happen in a different place. So you I’ll take advantage of the of the people that are with you train them, teach them, mentor them, and develop them into leaders. And if they stay because of the culture, then great, you’ve got a terrific culture, the culture is terrible, guess what? They’re gonna leave and hopefully they’ll send you work. Hopefully they’ll remember the kindness and the way that you they were treated by you. And that relationship can continue. So really good, really good quote there. Thank you, Gandhi.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [20:23]

Yeah, thank you, Gandhi,


Steve Fretzin  [20:25]

Gandhi. All right, we’ve got another one. Now this one is by someone incredibly famous. What do we have here?


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [20:31]

We have the seeds of today are the flowers of tomorrow by Stephanie Vaughn Jones. And it’s one of my favorites, actually, that I’ve always spoken to my team about. And anyone that knows me, I’m always full of a quote or something. Anyway, this one my favorite, especially because it relates to relates to business development. And I think things don’t happen overnight. And if you really focus your energy and keep planting the seeds, and move with integrity, your efforts will always be rewarded in some capacity. And I think if clients might want to leave or, you know, go there, go to another business, or whatever it might be, let them go gracefully, stay in contact with them, and always be kind and honest. And everything always comes back round. So I always think if you’re having a bit of a bad day, and you think, you know, I’m putting all this effort in, why isn’t anything coming back, it will always come back, eventually. And that is my my mantra in life. So there you go. The seeds of today are the flowers of tomorrow. And it’s beautiful when you watch the flowers blooming?


Steve Fretzin  [21:29]

Well, but it relates so well to, you know, client development and business development for lawyers, because they’re looking for instant gratification. They’re there, not all of them, but many of them are like, Hey, I just I just attended this networking event. Where’s my business? Well, you know, relationships take time, business takes time. Are there ways to accelerate it and put fertilizer and water and sun on those seeds may be more than than just letting them sit in the desert? Yeah. But ultimately, it takes time to develop not only relationships, but the business that in the trust that comes from that boat if we don’t even put the seeds in the ground. Right, which a lot of lawyers, they’re just keeping their head down, not the lawyers listening to this show. But the lawyers that they’re listening to their, you know, their counterparts that are, you know, keeping their head down and just trying to Bill hours and, and just go home and redo the next day. They’re not really looking to build a career and build a client base. You know, they’re not sowing those seeds. They’re not really thinking about the future. They’re just doing what they have to do for today. And that’s generally a big misstep.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [22:31]

Yeah, definitely. And another one is to today’s nose are tomorrow’s yeses. So that relates to that as well? Okay. Okay.


Steve Fretzin  [22:39]

I’ve got an interesting one stuff that I want to throw out. And this is, this is going to be a quote that I’ve heard that I hate, and then I’m going to give the different and I’m hoping I’m totally gonna screw this up. So the quote that I hate is people who can’t do teach. Okay, you’ve ever heard that? It’s an insult. It’s an insult to teachers is really what it is. Okay, people who can’t do teach. And I hate that so much, because I think the quote should be people who do well make the best teachers. Yes, I love it. So that’s my quote. I wrote that and I’m getting credit for it. Just like he’s got credit on this on the flowers tomorrow, okay, stuff. But I think that in then they started to make it worse, they see those who can’t teach teach gems, so I’m, then I’m not, that’s not me. That’s just a stupid, horrible thing that people have said, anyway. But my quote is, look, I would never be a good lawyer, coach or business development coach, or any of that, if two things didn’t exist. Number one is that I spent an entire lifetime, you know, 20 years in the trenches, selling services, selling products, selling and learning all the soft skills and hard skills that involve that. The other is, as I continue to develop my coaching practice, where I’m teaching and coaching and mentoring and all that I don’t stop selling, meaning that it’s not like I’m just taking a role where I coach, okay, I’m a while I’m coaching, I’m also, you know, position where I’m building business. Okay, yeah. And I love doing business. And I think that’s important because people that stop doing what they’re really good at doing to just teach, they might get a little dull. And so I feel like, you know, that’s why it’s really those who do well make the best teachers.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [24:23]

Yeah, I love it. I might post it on my social media, Steve.


Steve Fretzin  [24:27]

Okay. Yeah, thanks. I get credit. Now. It’s all looking for a little pat on the back and some credit ultimately. But Steph, these were some amazing quotes. And I just appreciate you sharing, you know, kind of your wisdom and what you’re just a different a different way for us to have some fun on the show. Any other quotes that you just absolutely love that you want to put out there before we wrap up?


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [24:48]

Yes. So it’s a bit of a personal one, really, but the best is yet to come.


Steve Fretzin  [24:53]

best is yet to come. Yeah, yes. Yeah. I think for us as partners, I think for the show I think for, you know, the clients that we work with that that quote, I think goes a long way.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [25:06]

Definitely makes it fits in really nicely with what was spoken about. Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [25:10]

So let’s move on to the game changing book. And I’ve never heard of this book before. So you’re gonna have to tell me a little bit about it. But the nowhere office?


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [25:19]

Yes. So the nowhere office reinventing work and the workplace for the future was written by one of our lovely partners, Julia Hobsbawm. So she’s a speaker and a consultant on the present and future of work. And she’s also a Bloomberg columnist and seasoned podcaster. So you can actually check out some of her podcasts on Apple and Spotify. But ultimately, the nowhere office describes a moment that millions of us have been in today. And it’s the situation that we’ve all been kind of accelerated into, really, and not so much caused by COVID. But COVID, kind of fat, fast tracked this kind of catapult into hybrid working. So we’ve all heard that word quite a lot over the last few years. But the book actually draws on the history and the relationship between an employer and the workplace. And it examines current research and data on workplace trends. And there’s a lot of attitudes of leaders in the book. And it just talks about the next steps forward really, and what their thoughts are on the hybrid working model. So also the great resignation as well as accounted for over 3% of the workforce in the United States. So actually June in the talks about the prepare to resign maybe, and people if they’re not given more recognition or flexibility by their employer, the rest of recognition, and all the rest of resignation rate could be up to 50%. So actually, it Yeah, it’s pretty crazy. But there was a few key takeaways that I got from the book, actually. So one of them, businesses all over the world, really reevaluating their work and life and operations. And actually, it’s been really challenging and exciting, but we’re all shaking up the way we do things. And we’re looking at things from a different perspective. And also, we’re empowering our workforce more now. So it’s definitely happening a lot more, but there’s definitely room for improvement as well. And we’re helping to avoid burnout and attract and retain new talent, just from having this kind of high production. You know, if you’d have said to me three years ago, you’d have people working remotely, it was actually a unique selling point of Moneypenny that we’ve had nobody working remotely. And, and now, our model is scalable, we offer flexible roles for team members, we’ve got an amazing disaster recovery model that we can be really proud of. And actually, it’s the best thing we’ve ever done. And a lot of our managers are actually working remotely and having some of the best performing teams, Julie are actually talks as well about culture, and maintaining that both in house and virtually. So looking at innovative ways of you know, communicating with our employees, not just having lunch together and getting a coffee from the coffee machine, but working with them. So they feel engaged online as well. And then I think another main point of the book was accepting that we’re never going to go back to the way things were before. So it’s been a massive transformation time and change. And I think change needed to happen. And this was just a catalyst for it. So highly recommend the book, you know, anyone looking to reinvent their workspace, we’ll move to hybrid then give it a read for sure.


Steve Fretzin  [28:23]

That’s it. All right. Thank you so much. And take a moment to just thank our other sponsors practice Panther helping you with your practice management to run your business practice more smoothly and legalese helping to take that marketing arm off of your, I guess off your shoulder. That’s a marketing arm, but basically taking that money, the marketing monkey off your back. I don’t know, I’m coming up with a bunch of different things here what martlet legalese does, but they’re fantastic. And then, of course, our favorite sponsor today, which is money, Penny and Steph, do you want to talk not only just about money penny for a minute, but also how do people reach out to you if they want to get in touch?


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [29:00]

Yeah, sure. So many Penny can look after either your overflow telephone calls or fully outsourced calls to us. So we will answer on behalf of your team, ensuring that your customers always have a really seamless experience when they call in. We also do live chat, which I mentioned earlier. So it’s web chat on your website, capturing the maximizing your marketing spend, and just ensuring that all of your customers have a wonderful experience when they contact you. And as I mentioned, we look after a wealth of legal firms so you’re in great hands. And if you did want to hear more about what we do, we can offer you a free two week trial. And you can contact me on SV J money Yeah, fantastic.


Steve Fretzin  [29:41]

And it’s just been so much fun having you I appreciate you not only sharing your wisdom, but also those just really just a different show fun show. And just want to you know, hope that we can continue to stay, you know, together and tight as networkers as friends is, you know, in in business and personal relationships. So thank you, staff.


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [29:58]

Oh, thank you very much. Save if I really enjoyed it yeah I’m


Steve Fretzin  [30:02]

glad I was able to get your kicking and screaming thanks now at the hey listen everybody thank you for spending some time with Stephanie today hopefully you got a couple of good ideas from the show and some some wonderful quotes and some meaningful takeaways again this show all about helping you be that lawyer someone who’s confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Take care everybody be safe be well, we’ll talk again real soon.


Narrator  [30:27]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website frets For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes