Steve Fretzin: Turning the Tables on Steve Fretzin

In this episode, Alay Yajnik and Steve Fretzin discuss:

  • Perfect practice in your business development.
  • Why lawyers struggle with business development.
  • The reason having your own book of business is more important than ever before.
  • Tips for starting your next year off with a bang.

Key Takeaways:

  • Being a great lawyer alone isn’t enough, you also need to have a great book of business to control your own future and success as a lawyer.
  • When sales is done in a sales-free way, it’s really about solving problems.
  • Start building your book of business and your network early in your career. It doesn’t need to be the first year, but by years 3-5, you will want to start building your own freedom and independence.
  • Get some level of competency in your skill that gives you a level of freedom and control.

“If you have your own clients and build your own book of business, you call the shots. You can write your own adventure.” —  Steve Fretzin

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Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.


[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hello, everyone. Have you ever wondered how much more business you could be generating each month? Well, you can take the Be That Lawyer challenge to find out. If I’m unable to help you find the money that’s been evading you, I’ll pay your hourly rate for the time invested together. Just go to to sign up. I’m challenging you. Now enjoy the show.

[00:00:23] Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host.

[00:00:45] Alay Yajnik: Hey, everyone, and welcome to be that lawyer. I’m your host, a lay Yashnik, lawyer coach and host of the lawyer business advantage podcast. Now, before you scratch your head in confusion, I am actually here with Steve Fretzin. How are you doing,

[00:00:57] Steve Fretzin: Steve? Hey, doing well. Good to see you.

[00:01:00] Alay Yajnik: Good to see you too. We thought it would be really fun to host each other’s podcasts.

[00:01:04] Alay Yajnik: Since you may never have seen the other side of Steve as a loyal listener, as he likes to do, we start with a quote of the show. And his is a Vince Lombardi quote, uh, from the Green Bay Packers of, uh, yesteryear. Practice doesn’t make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Steve, talk to us

[00:01:22] Steve Fretzin: about that quote.

[00:01:23] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I, some people may have heard me mention that before on the show, it’s, it’s one of my favorite quotes and, and um, you know, when I go to a driving range and I hit a bucket of balls and some go left and some go right and you hit that bucket and you call that practicing, right? That’s practicing, you’re just doing, doing the practice.

[00:01:38] Steve Fretzin: But, but if you’re not getting better learning something and improving, then isn’t just the same practice every time, never getting better. So the idea that perfect practice makes perfect is that if I see some balls are going off to the right, I need to think about why are they going to the right? What do I need to change and fix and adjust to get them to go straight?

[00:01:55] Steve Fretzin: Then I hit 10 balls straight. And then I know I’m practicing perfectly getting ready for that round. So in business development in life in general, I think we all are practicing, but we’re not necessarily getting better and better. And that’s, that’s like a, a mantra that I continue to try to instill in my clients and, and in my own life.

[00:02:12] Steve Fretzin: So.

[00:02:13] Alay Yajnik: It’s one thing to get the reps in, right? Just to get the repetition. It’s another thing to do them properly and to get better at them makes that practice

[00:02:20] Steve Fretzin: so much more effective. Yeah. I met a lawyer who said he had 10 years of business, a business development experience, and I interviewed him and I realized he had one year of experience 10 times because it was the same year, right?

[00:02:32] Steve Fretzin: Over and over and over again and never made improvements.

[00:02:35] Alay Yajnik: So Steve, for your listeners, uh, give us your background leading into, uh, be that lawyer tipping point.

[00:02:43] Steve Fretzin: So many people know that I’m not a lawyer and that I never thought I would work with lawyers. I was pulled into this in the recession of 2008 and nine, when I had primarily focused on teaching sales free selling to.

[00:02:56] Steve Fretzin: Uh, entrepreneurs, I had a local carpet cleaner. I had a local website company. I had big companies like Canon and the Chicago Tribune and, uh, the JUF, uh, Jewish United Fund. And it was great. And I was having a blast and I was working with sales teams and doing all that stuff. And then when the, when the lawyers started coming in, two things really clicked, number one, uh, lawyers hate selling and they hate feeling salesy.

[00:03:19] Steve Fretzin: And my methodology, as you know, is very anti sales. And so sales free selling really resonated with them. And the other is. It’s like they don’t know anything about business development. They don’t learn it in law school. They don’t learn at the law firm level. So the idea that I could work with sort of like a clean whiteboard that I could shape and mold and draw what I want to and have them follow that direction and follow that proven methodology was just a perfect fit.

[00:03:44] Steve Fretzin: And so after about 16 months recognized that this was Mhm. Too good to be true. And I needed to really start, you know, not just talking about how to specialize, but actually pull the trigger myself. And that’s what led to changing the name from, uh, get this everybody. Uh, my company was called sales results, Inc.

[00:04:01] Steve Fretzin: And so the lawyers listening right now are going, yeah, they’re, you know, they’re, they’re not enjoying it. Appreciating that name. Uh, so I didn’t want to call it supposed to be sales free. Silly. What are you talking? Yeah, right. Here’s sales free selling. And I’m talking about sales results. I had a, I had like a, a, a green arrow going up in the logo, like a very, very great for, for salespeople and for entrepreneurs, not so happy and great for lawyers who hate the word sales.

[00:04:24] Steve Fretzin: Uh, so I changed the name to Fretzen Inc cause I’m essentially the business and, uh, and, uh, that’s how it’s, how it’s really kind of built out from there.

[00:04:32] Alay Yajnik: Awesome. Awesome. And in your experience, why do lawyers really struggle with business development specifically?

[00:04:38] Steve Fretzin: Well, number one is what I just mentioned that, that it’s just, it’s not taught.

[00:04:41] Steve Fretzin: It’s just starting now to get taught in law schools. In fact, uh, I believe it’s Ohio state is, you know, picked up a bunch of copies of my book to use it in their syllabus for teaching lawyers, you know, the ins and outs of, of business development, personal branding, networking, et cetera. But in and I’ve spoken to a number of law, uh, law schools and I see the kids in the class.

[00:05:01] Steve Fretzin: I see the deer in the headlight. Look, they’re like, oh, my God, what am I getting into? Because they thought, you know, just learn the law, become a great lawyer and the rest is history. And what you and I know a lay is that’s not the case that client development and. Um, understanding how to, to build your own book of business could be the single most important thing in being a successful lawyer next to maybe being a great lawyer and understanding the law.

[00:05:24] Steve Fretzin: So I think they struggle with it because it’s not what they signed up for. It’s not what they became a lawyer to do. Um, when I went into sales at a very young age, I knew what I was getting into. I’m, it was a sales job and lawyers are going to being lawyers and not going into sales. And so now, unfortunately, they’re realizing that, that it’s important.

[00:05:43] Steve Fretzin: The other piece is I, and I, I’ve heard this from a number of my clients that in law school, they’re sort of set up on a pedestal of, this is a noble profession, you know, similar to doctors and there’s an oath and there’s, there’s a lot that goes into that. You’re really solving the world’s problems, uh, through laws and et cetera.

[00:05:59] Steve Fretzin: And that, you know, sales is like way down here. It’s like a, you know, it’s like the stinky basement of, of jobs. And what I’m trying to help lawyers know and understand is that when sales is done sales free, when it’s done in a professional way, we’re really doing the same thing. We’re solving problems.

[00:06:15] Steve Fretzin: Lawyers are problem solvers. I’m a problem solver and so are you. So I think that’s really the kind of the core elements about why lawyers struggle with it. It’s like anything, it’s like a learned skill, but they, they somehow feel like there’s people who are natural rainmakers, and every lawyer has said, that person’s a natural rainmaker, but that’s not the case.

[00:06:33] Steve Fretzin: I work with, and you work with, introverts, extroverts, we work with men, women, we work with all kinds of different people in, in different, uh, practice areas. And we know it’s a learned skill. So it’s, it’s really about, do they want to commit and dedicate themselves to learning a skill that will improve their life?

[00:06:47] Steve Fretzin: Or do they want to figure it out on their own or none of the above? Right.

[00:06:50] Alay Yajnik: And absolutely anyone can become a rainmaker and you’ve made so many, uh, attorneys into rainmakers. Um, what is it about growing the book of business that is really important today, maybe more so than it has been in the

[00:07:01] Steve Fretzin: past. I would just say that it’s, it’s come to a head that.

[00:07:06] Steve Fretzin: The lawyers who want to control their destiny that want to control the amount of money that they make, how they spend their time, very hard to do that when you don’t have your own book of business. If you think about it from this perspective, if you’re an associate or even a partner level. And you’re getting all of your work from other lawyers and that work slows down, then what?

[00:07:26] Steve Fretzin: If you’re, if one of those big clients you’re working on gets sold, uh, that that company goes out of business or gets bought or whatever, and that work isn’t yours anymore, then what? And there’s all these then what situations that are happening could be a recession like we had in 2008, nine. I would say the world right now is in its craziest places it’s ever been.

[00:07:45] Steve Fretzin: You think about things going in internally and externally in the U S things could change on a dime. We just don’t know. The, but the one thing that lawyers can be assured of is if you have your own clients and you build your own book of business, you call the shots. You’re the one who’s getting the attention that your firm, you’re the one who could move laterally.

[00:08:03] Steve Fretzin: You have the ability to take those clients and go out on your own. It’s sort of like you can sort of, you know, write your own adventure. Whereas if you don’t have that, your adventure is being written by someone. Yeah. And I’ve

[00:08:14] Alay Yajnik: seen attorneys and I’m sure you have to Steve who try to write their own adventure.

[00:08:19] Alay Yajnik: So they’ve got maybe one or two really big clients. And they spit out of a large law firm and open up their own shop and they think everything’s going swimmingly. And then they lose one of those clients and boom, there goes 60 percent of their business. And if they don’t have the rainmaking skills, they can’t build that book of business back up.

[00:08:36] Alay Yajnik: It’s really scary.

[00:08:37] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And so again, you know, the, the, the, the thing that we talk about it, look, I don’t know that this is something that a first year, you know, attorney working at a mid market firm needs to spend all their time trying to develop business. I wouldn’t suggest that I would say become a great lawyer.

[00:08:52] Steve Fretzin: However, start building your network and start becoming a student of the game because in three to five years when you’re actually a good lawyer, you know, you’re going to want to start thinking about that client development even as an associate who’s not getting paid. I have an associate at a mid market firm right now that graduated from my program and worked with me in my peer advisory roundtables and she calls me when she has big wins and I, nothing I enjoy more than those calls from Angela with those big wins.

[00:09:16] Steve Fretzin: And she, she went from having all of the work that she was doing coming from her firm and coming from. Uh, you know, the, her superiors and by the way, in areas of practice, she wasn’t enjoying to now doing all of the work she enjoys and it’s all of her own clients, it’s all of her origination or shared origination.

[00:09:33] Steve Fretzin: So what a difference in her attitude, what a difference in her feeling about the future, even when her firm kind of shunned, like, Hey, keep your head down and get your work done, not go out and develop business.

[00:09:45] Alay Yajnik: Yeah, it really gets down to freedom, doesn’t it? I mean, if you want to be, if you want to call the shots, like you said, if you want to have that sense of freedom, that sense of independence, that sense of, I have control over my own destiny and where I want to take my firm.

[00:10:00] Alay Yajnik: You have to be able to build and have strong book of business. It’s absolutely right.

[00:10:05] Steve Fretzin: And I get in a pretty regular argument with a friend of mine who, who is near and dear to my heart. Uh, he’s moved from in house to law firm roles over the last 20 years as no book of business. And he’s, he’s just like, you know what?

[00:10:19] Steve Fretzin: It’s not, it’s not for me. And I said, okay, it’s not for you. So Now you’re going to get another job at a law firm and they’re not going to have work for you and then you’re going to get let go again and then you’re going to go to here and you’re going to go to there and, you know, he’s making money and he’s paying for his kid’s college and he’s doing all the, all the things that he’s, you, I don’t know, you know, what a security is, uh, the tail end of things, but I just feel like if he had just made one switch or one different decision, when he, when he stopped working for the big, um, in house job and got into a private practice, That it would have actually changed his life and his in the course because he’s, he’s, he’s super knowledgeable, super smart, super nice, and he had all the capacity to learn this skill and do it, just chose not to and really just said it is, he really does, I think, believe that it’s beneath him.

[00:11:03] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And

[00:11:03] Alay Yajnik: that’s a really fair point. I have, uh, so I’m coming up on 50 years old and, uh, I have a couple of friends who are doing the same and I live out in the Silicon Valley area where there have been a lot of tech layoffs recently. And my friends who have spent no time, you know, on business development, uh, and the equivalent if you’re in a corporation is networking and building a professional network, but no time doing that.

[00:11:24] Alay Yajnik: They recently got laid off. And by recently, I mean about 10 months ago, they still haven’t found anything and there’s nothing in sight. If they had that Uh, that skill of business development, they would have been employed already. And so you’re playing with fire if you really don’t do that. And the irony here, Steve, is that you don’t have to be this amazing rainmaker.

[00:11:46] Alay Yajnik: It’s okay just to be decent at business development and anyone can learn it. Whether you’re introverted. We’re extroverted or you’re an attorney, um, and you just want to practice law or you’re doing appellate law, whatever kind of law you’re doing, whatever your behavior style, you can learn business development.

[00:12:03] Alay Yajnik: If they work with someone like you, Steve, it’s easier and they probably

[00:12:06] Steve Fretzin: think, yeah, it’s, it’s not like you have to have a 10 million book and you know, go off into the sunset. It, it. Everyone has a different ambition level. Everyone is a different, you know, look, I could, I could be building out my company to a hundred employees and trying to be a 20 million player.

[00:12:24] Steve Fretzin: I enjoy being a solo. I enjoy not managing people and focusing on client development and working with my clients and, and developing creative marketing ideas. That’s the life I want. If I wanted to fly a jet around the country and do other things, I’d, I’d probably go in that direction. So everybody’s at a different level, but the one thing that, that to your point of lay that they should have in common is get some level of competency in a skill that is directly, directly related to your freedom and your control.

[00:12:53] Steve Fretzin: I’m not telling people to go become a professional golfer or chef or, or, or spend 10 years playing guitar. Great to have hobbies, but this is a, this is something that isn’t a hobby. This is something that actually. Relates to your career and your career trajectory and your freedom. So that’s why I kind of put it in the front and center.

[00:13:09] Steve Fretzin: And I’m all about, you know, quitting things. Like if I, I tried jump playing the drums, I went to like three or four lessons. I was like, look, I think I could keep going, but this is not how I want to spend my time. It was fun. And I dropped it. I dropped it fast. That’s okay. But that’s different than when something that, you know, I don’t need to play drums to make a living or feed my family or, or, you know, take nice trips and have, have a lifestyle, you know, unless I want to become a professional drummer, which I don’t.

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[00:15:27] Alay Yajnik: Um, so as we’re coming into the end of the year and the start of the next year, what are some concrete tips that can help attorneys that are listening finish the year strong and start next year off with the bang.

[00:15:36] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I’m an absolute huge advocate for the importance of learning and executing time management skills, right?

[00:15:44] Steve Fretzin: I mean, that’s, that’s like, uh, in the story I, I, I, I’ve told on the show before, and I’ve told the people before my grandfather, um, got a call when he was alive years ago, got a call from the library that he had not returned a book. And it had been way overdue and he said, I don’t remember, you know, not returning a book.

[00:16:03] Steve Fretzin: I was returning my books. And he said, what’s the name of it? And they said, it’s how to improve your memory. Right. So, so you know, for lawyers, time management is the same thing. If you’re not an expert or really leaning towards becoming really effective and efficient with your time, it makes it very difficult to do business development.

[00:16:19] Steve Fretzin: It makes it very difficult to have and control your life. So. Getting things done by David Allen is just a great starting point of audio. If you could do the audio and do the, and do the book at the same time, I think your retention will be higher. But it’s something that I did because I was absolutely not organized at all.

[00:16:37] Steve Fretzin: I had papers everywhere. I had business cards everywhere. I was a disaster. And when I think about how I am now and how I’m able to work with my clients on their time management. It really makes all the difference in the world because when they say, Hey, I don’t even have time to go to the bathroom during the day, or I don’t have time to spend with my kids, or I’m up working till two in the morning writing briefs.

[00:16:57] Steve Fretzin: It bothers me because I know that there’s a better way. They just haven’t, they just haven’t put themselves in a position to learn that particular skill. And it’s like, if you learn that skill, then the skills are those skills. You know, you may have more time to learn those skills. So, you know, it’s like improve your memory.

[00:17:13] Steve Fretzin: And that way you’ll, you’ll remember to do the things you need to do. Same thing with time management. So I, I would say that’s number one is really become an expert. Uh, at least, you know, more competent at time management.

[00:17:23] Alay Yajnik: Yeah. You and I agree, time is our most precious asset. And so it makes sense to learn how to manage it really, really well.

[00:17:31] Alay Yajnik: And by the way, when attorneys do that, it’s also going to help them hit their billable hours as well, because they’ll be more efficient with that. The number one reason attorneys don’t do business development and marketing, the number one excuse I’ll say is they, they say they don’t have time. Yeah. Well, guess what?

[00:17:45] Alay Yajnik: They do have time. Uh, you do have time if you’re listening to this. You just have to manage it properly. So Steve,

[00:17:50] Steve Fretzin: what’s tip number two? You know what, I’m gonna, I’m gonna go back for a sec before we go to two. So I, the other thing I’d share, and this is an exercise that anyone listening can do that’ll be absolutely eye opening, is just start your day, whatever you start your day, 6.

[00:18:04] Steve Fretzin: 30, 7 a. m., uh, through 6 p. m., 7 p. m., whenever you end your day, And track everything you do during the day. Like literally write down everything you just did. I just thought

[00:18:13] Alay Yajnik: I got to tell you, I

[00:18:14] Steve Fretzin: don’t have time to do that. Okay. All right. Well, we’re going to have to work in LA. Nice. Well played, sir. Uh, but you know, the idea that you’re tracking your time anyway, track, look, this is a 30 minute interview with me in LA.

[00:18:26] Steve Fretzin: All right. That’s how I just spent 30 minutes. And right after that, I was, uh, on Amazon searching for new shirts. Okay. And then I spoke to a client for 15 minutes and then I was, uh, you know, I was on Facebook, uh, doom scrolling. Okay. Well, you’re going to start to pick up. Um, the things that you’re doing during the day that aren’t appropriate, right?

[00:18:46] Steve Fretzin: That are really good uses of your time. Maybe they can be delegated. I once found a guy I was working with an estate planner who was doing two hours of making copies a day, pushing the button, standing by the copier, putting, loading in paper stapling two hours a day. Well, if we do the math, right, that’s an extra week, a month that he got that he would add to his time just by giving up that one silly task.

[00:19:09] Steve Fretzin: So I just want to just reemphasize that you can, that tracking your time is a great way to kind of expose yourself to you that. There’s things that, that are, that are not the best use of your time. Okay. So that’s number one. I would say number two is, you know, I can take a compass, right? And I walk out of my front door with my compass and I can say, look, I need to get to Alaska.

[00:19:33] Steve Fretzin: And I know that it’s West and I know that it’s North from Chicago. All right. I’m going to go figure it out. Or I could get a super high, high usable, highly usable, a GPS system. That’s not only going to tell me what roads to get there, but maybe what are the best hotels, the best restaurants, the best sites I’m going to have an, like an enjoyable journey towards Alaska until I get there.

[00:19:55] Steve Fretzin: And then when I get there, you know, I’ll know what to do there. And business development is much the same. When lawyers go at it and either don’t go at it or go at it haphazardly and just wing it, that’s the compass, right? What I would prefer to see is lawyers sit down and write a constructive plan of how are they going to attack the market, how are they going to go after targets, do they even know who their targets are?

[00:20:20] Steve Fretzin: And how are they going to write a plan out that’s going to be usable to them to achieve results in less time with less effort and again, back to perfect practice from the beginning of the show, learning what’s working and learning what’s not and making those improvements to get better results. And none of that is really being done.

[00:20:37] Steve Fretzin: Maybe I don’t know if you’d agree with this, like maybe 5 percent of lawyers have have written plans. Oh, I

[00:20:43] Alay Yajnik: would say probably less than that. And there’s a lot of lawyers that I’ve talked to who. You know, wear that on their sleeve. Oh, I don’t need to write down a plan. I’m good. Just like doing things the way I’ve always done them.

[00:20:54] Alay Yajnik: And then you ask them about the size of their book and how it’s doing. And that’s when the other side of the coin shows

[00:20:59] Steve Fretzin: up. Yeah. And if the phone rings, then, then it’s good. If the phone is a ringing, then it’s not as good. So, um, the idea that lawyers can take a piece of paper and very simply write, like at the top of the page, what is your objective?

[00:21:10] Steve Fretzin: What are you trying to accomplish? What do you want to see happen? Number of matters, dollars. You know, however you want to track, you know, what success looks like for you, determine what your strategies are, how you want to spend your time, what’s worked for you in the past. Is that attending conferences?

[00:21:25] Steve Fretzin: Is it networking? Is it leveraging your clients for introductions and then writing out under those strategies? What are the tactics? What are the actionable things that you need to do to accomplish them? And I’ll give you one tactic that’s that that could change the course of someone’s life. Just doing this one exercise is.

[00:21:42] Steve Fretzin: To get all of your people, your network, your clients, your strategic partners, your, your friends from law school, whatever, and upload them into an Excel spreadsheet and just walk through them and say, who is this person? How do I know them? Are they an ABCDEF? You know, an A is someone that, that is your best friend and has tons of business they can throw your way.

[00:22:02] Steve Fretzin: And then a B might be a little less than a C might be a little less than the D is someone you haven’t seen in 10 years and don’t even know what they’re doing. And just having that list of names and, and having them rated. Allows you to have something in front of you that says, you know what? I’m going to do some business development.

[00:22:16] Steve Fretzin: I’m going to send out five emails this week. Who are the five people I want to email? And you’ve got the list in front of you. Otherwise, what’s the exercise stand in front of your, sit in front of your computer, know that your business development’s important, but you don’t have anything prepared as far as lists, names, scripts, whatever.

[00:22:34] Steve Fretzin: And so then you just do the, well, there’s other work I can do. And you just blow it off. It’s such a

[00:22:38] Alay Yajnik: powerful exercise to see when you, uh, the, what you’re describing there. Uh, two things that attorneys that are listening can do to take full advantage of that. One thing is attorneys just know that it doesn’t have to be perfect, right?

[00:22:49] Alay Yajnik: You don’t need all the data, just use your gut feeling and just get it written down. The second thing is you can change it. So if you’re kind of stuck and you’re not sure whether, whether you should go to this event or whether you should call this person, just go with whatever you want to do and just know that you can change it.

[00:23:04] Alay Yajnik: You can change it tomorrow. You can change it next week and change it next year.

[00:23:08] Steve Fretzin: It’s a moving, living, breathing document. It’s not something like that. You have to, that’s stagnant. Exactly.

[00:23:14] Alay Yajnik: So let’s turn the page here and talk about your programs a little bit. You have been wildly successful in working with attorneys.

[00:23:21] Alay Yajnik: You’re one of the few, um, uh, attorney business development coaches I will refer to, um, you do an amazing job. Talk about why your programs are so successful.

[00:23:31] Steve Fretzin: What I figured out, uh, a number of years ago is that I was doing coaching sessions with lawyers, which is, you know, really important stuff because we’re talking about them, their plan, their execution, accountability.

[00:23:45] Steve Fretzin: I mean, coaching is, is different than, than a lot of other things in the sense that we want to work together as a team and. Allow the individual lawyer to be asked questions to, to figure it out more him or herself than me just directing. Okay, but what was happening was a lot of the time that we would spend together was them asking me questions about how do I network effectively?

[00:24:08] Steve Fretzin: How do I leverage my clients to get referrals, get introductions? How do I, how do I, how do I, and the list goes on and on and on. And the concept of coaching, okay, we get that. But the, but the other piece of my program is training. And so I was spending a lot of my coaching time doing training and that, that’s not a great use of time doing coaching is, is trade.

[00:24:31] Steve Fretzin: So what I was saying is I’m saying the same things over and over again to these clients. Why don’t I create a class where I can take a syllabus of all the things that, that they need to know, I mean, literally, there’s nothing that isn’t covered that they want to know or need to know about building a law practice, business development, networking, social media, you name it, it’s in there.

[00:24:50] Steve Fretzin: And by the way, if it isn’t that, it’s not in my wheelhouse that I’ll. You know, try to find an answer, bring someone in to talk to them, but they know it’s, it’s business development is different than a lot of things. We’re not talking operations, right? So, the, the idea that there’s a training component, a weekly class that they can attend for 90 minutes and get all this great content, commiserate with other lawyers that are in a similar situation, learn these skills, and remember, we’re going back to perfect practice.

[00:25:19] Steve Fretzin: We role play, we practice, we rehearse. So like I’m working with Bobby. I just talked to him this morning. He’s down in Florida. He’s going to create an infomercial. Okay. We’ll work on our infomercial. He’s then going to try the infomercial in front of the group. He’s going to get feedback from the group.

[00:25:34] Steve Fretzin: He’s going to rewrite the infomercial and then try it again next week. And now he’s getting something that’s getting improved again and again and again, it’s getting honed so that when he talks to people out in the world, he’s going to feel more comfortable and confident because he’s got something that he knows resonates with people.

[00:25:50] Steve Fretzin: And that type of training and coaching together seems to be the magic sauce for how lawyers are internalizing the skills that are going to ultimately end up, that they’ll end up caring for the rest of their career. So it’s not, it’s that teach someone to fish so they can fish the rest of their life versus.

[00:26:07] Steve Fretzin: Fishing for them or kicking them off the boat. And if, uh, attorneys

[00:26:11] Alay Yajnik: that are listening want to learn more about that program,

[00:26:13] Steve Fretzin: how do they do that? Yeah, that’s going to be simple. Just go to my website, bretson. com. Uh, you can also email me directly at Steven Fretson. You guys all know I do these 30 minute free.

[00:26:24] Steve Fretzin: Consultations to essentially evaluate where you are, where you want to be and where those gaps are. And if those gaps align with what I’m teaching and coaching people on, then I’m a great fit. If they don’t align, I’ll still obviously be a resource. I’ll send, you know, maybe it’s a lay that that you should work with.

[00:26:41] Steve Fretzin: Maybe it’s someone that does more marketing focused stuff and social media. You know, it’s really I just want to make sure that every, every lawyer I work with, not only is a good fit, but also is highly motivated, hungry to learn, hungry to grow, because it’s, I’m the coach, you’re the player. If the player doesn’t play, right away, then what?

[00:26:58] Steve Fretzin: Like, you know, there’s, there’s no, there’s no, there’s no win, there’s no engagement there that’s going to be successful. So it’s really important for lawyers to kind of Meet with me, but meet with me after you’ve decided that, you know, this is going to be your year. Like, this is where I want to draw a line in the sand.

[00:27:13] Steve Fretzin: I want to burn the shit behind me. I want a new life for myself. That’s, those are the best people for me to talk to. Yeah, you said something

[00:27:20] Alay Yajnik: to me when we first met, which is, as a coach, I’m only as good as my players, and that is so true. Yeah. So true. So let’s wrap up with your game changing podcast, Under the Influence with Terry O’Reilly.

[00:27:30] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. So this is one I’m, I’m a bit of a, of a marketing nerd and I love creative ideas. I love learning about marketing and branding, not only for my business, but it’s fun to help my clients come up with an idea or an angle. And so under the influence is a really cool show, um, about the ad world. So how did McDonald’s come to be?

[00:27:51] Steve Fretzin: How did Dr. Pepper come to be? What’s the, the inside story and how did they. You know, get to, to be, you know, at their level of success. And so it’s, it’s a lot about brands. It’s a lot about marketing and they have all these kind of niche little, you know, things like the, you know, the, the, the, the, for example, like back in the day, the housewife being marketed to, like it was always the man’s decision.

[00:28:12] Steve Fretzin: And then they just, Hey, they realized, Hey, it’s actually the, the, the woman in the home that’s making the decision on these types of products and. Um, a little bit like Mad Men too, like watching Mad Men, that, that show is, is kind of cool, but Under the Influence is just a really well produced show if you’re into marketing and branding and enjoy that kind of content.

[00:28:29] Alay Yajnik: It is a great show. I encourage all of you to check it out if you’re into this kind of thing. A lot of good lore there, a lot of fun stuff. Hey, shout out and thank you to Steve’s sponsors, Lawmatics. Get staffed up and get visible. You’re all awesome. Uh, Steve, thank you so much for being on your show. It’s been a pleasure.

[00:28:47] Alay Yajnik: Thank you all for listening in today and being that lawyer, someone who is confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. Be safe and well, and we’ll see you again real safe.

[00:29:00] Narrator: Thanks for listening to be that lawyer life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.