In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Susan Mendelsohn discuss:
- Susan’s strategy and relationship driven approach to recruiting.
- Mistakes and misconceptions have regarding recruiting and bringing in new lawyers.
- Being recruitable as a lawyer and what to look for when looking to move.
- How the pandemic has affected recruiting.
- As a law firm, be very specific about what your needs are and identify what the opportunity is.
- Demonstrate that you are out, marketing your firm and yourself, and identifying opportunities and bringing in business.
- If you are not successful at your firm, evaluate if it is you or if it is your firm.
- As things start to return to normalcy and the pandemic winds down, there will be a lot of movement as lawyers and firms find the right fit.
“I think the biggest mistake is not really identifying what the opportunity is, and being very specific about it: Why do you have that need? What is the opportunity for that person? Come to the table having something identifiable and exciting to that candidate. ” — Susan Mendelsohn
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Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
firm, lawyer, women, people, partners, recruiting, recruitable, law firm, practice, candidate, clients, listening, move, lateral, talking, steve, pay, business, relate, marketing
Susan Mendelsohn, Narrator, Steve Fretzin
Susan Mendelsohn [00:00]
You know, for practices like labor and employment and those niche practices, and they’re not paid well, because they tend to be, quote unquote, service partners. But yet they shouldn’t be really service partners. They’re really are a valuable part of the team and they should be paid well or you are going to rest, lose them, losing them. And likewise, you’re going to risk being able to bring in significant talent too, if you don’t pay them while
you’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time, greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin [00:48]
Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I am Steve Fretzin, as the announcer had just told you, if you’re paying attention, and I hope that you’re having a great day, and I hope that you’re ready to listen and take in some great content, because I’ve got a doozy for you today. This is a friend of mine and someone that is just amazing in her industry. She’s the founder and president of Mendelson legal. And it’s Susan Mendelsohn. How’s it going, Susan?
Susan Mendelsohn [01:11]
Great, Steve, thank you for having me today. It’s an honor to be here to talk to you about all things I
Steve Fretzin [01:15]
love you while The pleasure is mine. I was excited to even this morning just thinking about having you on the show and all the great things we’re going to talk about. And if you would do me a solid and just give a little more background on yourself and former lawyer and moving into recruiting. Give us a background on that my audience know what you’re up to.
Susan Mendelsohn [01:33]
Yes, absolutely. So yes, I was a lawyer, I was a partner in a law firm. And one day I wasn’t one day, it was really gradual. I decided that I didn’t want to practice law anymore. But I had no idea what I wanted to do. And lo and behold, a client called me to tell me that he had invested in a New York staffing company, they wanted to open at Chicago office, and wanting to know if I knew anybody who would be interested in opening that office. I knew he was fishing for me. I knew you’re interested in recruiting at the time, but he convinced me to have a call with the President. Three hours later, we were arranging for this President to fly in. We had dinner three months later, I accepted an offer and off with my career, and I never looked back.
Steve Fretzin [02:10]
Yeah, I’ve played that trick before to like, you know if you ever knew any, if you ever run into anybody definitely like you, could you please let me know. And of course, they’ll, by the time they get to their car after the conversation, then what did he mean me? Right? So exactly.
Susan Mendelsohn [02:22]
I’ll call people and I’ll say, you know, I’m sure you’re not interested. But
yeah, but let me just tell you what I’m thinking. Exactly. Okay. That’s opportunity. Oh, there you go. That
Steve Fretzin [02:32]
works. So from a standpoint of what fascinated you, or did that you liked about the idea of being a recruiter and legal and taking that position, and then moving on from there.
Susan Mendelsohn [02:41]
So I have a little bit of a strange past, I was a private investigator, I was a lawyer, I actually was in sales at one point in my life. And this sort of brought all of my path together. I don’t know if you read Steve Jobs book, but he talks about his past being sort of a various things. And that’s how I view my career really, is that all the things that I did in my past led to this led to recruiting. And I think actually all of those things are what made me so good at what I do.
Steve Fretzin [03:08]
And was there something also about being a lawyer and then working in the legal space that sort of was a trigger that were prepared you better for doing what you do so well?
Susan Mendelsohn [03:17]
Well, I think that I can really relate to these lawyers, right, I you know, I developed business, I had to go out not only get the clients, but do the work. And I knew when my platform was too small for me, I needed to move firm. So all of these things helped me really relate to the people that I work with. And also having been in management, I can relate well to the firm’s into the management in the firm’s as well. So yes,
Steve Fretzin [03:38]
you know, I know that you’re highly successful in the field. And was there a thing or two that you found that you’re doing that’s unique in the space or that you’re just doing it a level that maybe other recruiters aren’t, and again, everybody’s good in their own way. But I know, knowing you and talking to you, working with you that you’ve got some things that you’re doing that are kind of above and beyond?
Susan Mendelsohn [03:58]
Yes, I think, you know, it’s interesting, I had dinner with another recruiter, one of my competitors last night, and we’ve been recruiting about the same time he’s been doing it a year and longer than I am, than I have. But you know, he’s a little bit different than I am, I think I am much more relationship driven. And I’m always looking for those opportunities for not only my clients, but my candidates, and I keep them in mind. So, you know, they may not, I may not be working with them at the moment, but I’m always keeping them in mind. So if something comes up, I call them but it’s also I think, the strategy driven approach that I have to recruiting has really helped me delve deep with not only the clients but the candidates. And I think they view me as a trusted adviser, and someone who really understands them and doesn’t try to push them into something that’s not going to fit. I always joke and say I don’t like returns, and I like
Steve Fretzin [04:47]
to go back to a return right. So strategically, what are you doing between the law firm and the lawyer for example that demonstrates the Fed or that shows you the path of fit, where you just you feel really good about the placement.
Susan Mendelsohn [05:01]
So I’ve now I’ve gotten to the point where I only take on placements that I really believe if a firm says to me, well, we just want lawyers, we want lawyers with X business, I have no interest in working on that. So but if a firm says, Look, we have a gap, I’m going to use private equity as an example, we have a gap in private equity, we really need a deeper bench in Chicago, for example, we need someone who has, you know, 15 years of experience who’s worked in the middle market solidly in the middle market, and can really help us pitch our prospective clients or existing clients than I know, I can go out into the marketplace and find that candidate that has that exact niche. And then it becomes something really saleable for them, right. Like, you know, they have clients that they can help you gain because of your expertise, and because of their gap, and it’s a perfect fit them excited. And of course, the firm is excited to hear that, you know, candidates like that are identified.
Steve Fretzin [05:53]
Alright, so let’s, if you don’t mind, I want to go non-negative. But I want to go down a path here on two different questions. Number one is, what are the mistakes or misconceptions that law firms have about recruiting and bringing in people? And then I want to flip to what are the things that lawyers are missing the ball on as it relates to being recruitable? So let’s start with law firms. And again, we’re not here to bash anybody but we’re talking about their deficits, we’re talking about their, you know, potentially their culture gaps are the things that they’re just missing the boat on, you go in, you’re like, Oh, my God, this is gonna be tough, because yeah, are you right? What are those things? There’s a law firm manager, managing partner listening right now, for example, and you’re kind of saying, Hey, here’s where we’re seeing things.
Susan Mendelsohn [06:37]
I think the biggest mistake is not really identifying what the opportunity is, and being very specific about it, you know, why do you have that need? What is the opportunity for that person? Yes, you want the business, you want the person with business? Well, what’s in it for this candidate. So you really coming to the table, having something identifiable and exciting, something exciting to that candidate. The other mistake I think that firms make is not paying attention to recruiting, they’ll say, oh, they’ll call a recruiter and say, hey, we’d like this, this and this, and then they in essence, walk away from it. And you may not hear from them for weeks after you’ve submitted candidates. Well, the firm’s that really succeed in recruiting are the ones who really pay attention to it, they’re on it, they’re immediately responsive. They show the candidates the love, those are the ones who really got the good candidates. And the third thing really is not integrating these candidates properly. And we’ve all all recruiters have had experience with this where you place a candidate, the candidate has basically shown a desk showed a phone and say, best of luck. So glad you’re here, shake hands and off they walk as opposed to the firm’s that have true or integration plans, really integrate that candidate, well introduce them around the firm, introduce that have them flying to different locations, pre pandemic, and hopefully post pandemic. Those are the firm’s that really do well and have a higher percentage of success, but lateral, so I would say those are the biggest mistakes and things that firms can turn around. And they really makes a difference in recruiting.
Steve Fretzin [07:57]
You know, it’s funny, because I’ve actually I coined this and hopefully no one’s gonna steal it. But I’ve thought of myself on occasion as what I call lateral insurance, in the sense that if somebody is going to take a lateral role, and they’re going to be put in their desk at their phone, and say, hey, you know, good luck, we wish you well do well here, you know, whatever. And then they’re sort of left to their own devices. And a huge mistake that is for the law firm, and the lawyer. And so like, I try to step in, help them develop a plan, help them develop, how they’re going to meet their partner’s cross market integrate, as insurance that the lateral will stick in the lateral be successful. And I’ve done that a number of occasions, with lawyers that are changing firms, it’s a shame that the firm doesn’t have a stronger play in that sense. And is does that relate back to maybe a cultural gap that they have?
Susan Mendelsohn [08:42]
Yes, actually, because a lot of firms tend to be, I don’t want to say silos, that’s not really the right word. But a lot of firms don’t really capitalize on the talent that they have within the firm and cross marketing, right? Some do really well, some don’t. And so I think that is an indication of the culture for sure. And it’s like, leaving product on the shelf, your Walmart, it’s like showing, you know, part of your store, when you’re going out to get business or advertising to clients, and you’re only advertising to a segment of the population, you know, you’re leaving product on the shelves.
Steve Fretzin [09:11]
And so just another minute on this, and then we can move on to the candidate, the lawyers that may be interested in moving or thinking about about things like that. But what other you know, two or three deficits, are you seeing within law firms where they may not be recruitable, meaning people aren’t may not be interested in their firm because there’s a number of things, they’re not putting their best foot forward, they have a reputation for something that maybe might be negative or might not be easy for you to recruit into, because maybe they’ve got a managing partner who’s a tyrant or maybe they’ve got their website with, you know, four white guys on the cover, you know, on the homepage versus showing diversity. So what are some things that you’re seeing that are becoming maybe more relevant now for firms, the deficits that they have is in being successful recruiting, helping you do your job.
Susan Mendelsohn [09:57]
You’ve basically said it so they can move out just later. I’m counting.
I guess I don’t need you that I just handled the whole thing myself.
Susan Mendelsohn [10:05]
Now, you can ask the question and answer yourself. It is some of the things you mentioned, for sure. But then it’s also, you know, I think if they have a revolving door, for example, yeah, partners know that and say, hey, they just lost 10 partners. And last year, they lost five. And, you know, if someone’s paying attention, they see they’ve had a lot about that can be an issue. I think if they have a reputation for having a weaker department, let’s say it’s real estate, they have a weaker real estate department. Well, what are they doing to fix that? Besides trying to recruit me? What else are they doing? What are they dedicated to that particular practice? So maybe, you know, for example, there’s one firm, I won’t name the firm that continually tries to bring in corporate and never works. Why? Because it’s really a litigation firm that really pay attention to the corporate as much as they should. It’s sort of a second thought, right? There’s things like that, I think that make it difficult to recruit, I’m going to tell you a big one, which is some firms, I think, they don’t have self awareness that maybe they themselves need to merge. And they’re not really attractive in the marketplace, particularly now. Because there’s so many good firms, and there are firms that are discussing merger all over the country, as we all know, and there’s a reason for that. And so it could be that your platform is just not attractive enough to the lateral community, and you need to do something about that.
Steve Fretzin [11:20]
So I guess the other thing is, you know, there are firms have really up to date compensation plans, where you can see the movement up within the firm, you know, it’s transparent, it’s open and honest, and people can see the path forward. And then there’s some that don’t, is that another hindrance?
Susan Mendelsohn [11:36]
I think, well, it depends on you’re talking about partners, you’re talking about associates, I’m
Steve Fretzin [11:39]
talking about like old school comp plans, right? Like, we’ll figure out what you should make, you know, you know, not based on how much you bring in, or how many hours you build whatever we feel, you know,
Susan Mendelsohn [11:50]
that yes, that will kill a deal whenever an offer is made. And I think sometimes to firms are penny wise dollar foolish, the old say, because, you know, sometimes given that partner the extra amount, if you really want that practice, and you really are valuing the practice, one way to show that as to give that partner extra money, and sometimes, you know, firms will no not the firm’s I work closely with because they know it’s not true, but sometimes firms will think I’m just trying to, you know, increase the amount to increase my and when I sent that’s going on, I’ll say, Cap my fee at the lower amount, but give them more, show them that you really value this practice to bring them in, because so if you really value, it’s interesting, someone I had lunch with an executive committee member of a large firm, and he was saying that it’s easy for him to pick off talent, you know, when he would other firms call service partners, but he calls them valuable team members to his firm, you know, for practices like labor and employment and those niche practices. And they’re not paid well, because they tend to be, quote, unquote, service partners. But yet, they shouldn’t be really service partners, there really are a valuable part of the team and they should be paid well, or you are going to risk lose them, losing them. And likewise, you’re going to risk being able to bring in significant talent to if you don’t pay them well.
Steve Fretzin [13:04]
And then let’s flip it to the other side, the lawyer side, what are lawyers missing the boat on as it relates to being recruitable?
Susan Mendelsohn [13:11]
Well, if you’re talking about being recruitable, versus what they should look for, in terms of making a move, you know, when I’m sure we’re ready,
Steve Fretzin [13:19]
let’s do both. I mean, let’s start off with mine. And then let’s go to yours, because I think they’re both important. Right?
Susan Mendelsohn [13:24]
Okay. So being recruitable, obviously, is one having a strong skill set, right? Two is being a valuable team member within your firm, which demonstrates that you’ll be a valuable team member within another firm. So what does that mean? That means that you bring other people into your deals or your litigation, that you bring people into pitches that you help out when other people need help with a pitch or help with a matter how would you know litigation are transactional, that you are that person who’s really a valuable member of the firm and really contributes in many ways. And the third way, which we all know as partners is by building a practice, which is where you come in having an identifiable and significant practice, the trajectory is in one way, or if your trajectory is down, that’s not good, but your trajectory is up. You don’t necessarily have to have a large book, but you just have to demonstrate that each year, you are increasing the amount of business that you’re bringing in and also demonstrate that you’re out there, that you’re not just looking to get business from partners within your firm, but you’re also looking outside, that you’re out marketing your firm, that you’re marketing yourself and identifying opportunities for the firm for you for your partners. And those are ways to make yourself attractive to other firms.
Steve Fretzin [14:33]
Okay, and then move it to the other side.
Susan Mendelsohn [14:35]
When should you move? Yeah,
Steve Fretzin [14:37]
so I will when the timings right, there’s many
Susan Mendelsohn [14:39]
reasons why people bilaterals why partners move. Money should never be the sole reason that people call me and say, Well, I’m underpaid. That’s why I want to move and I always try to delve deeper into that if it ends up that really is the only reason I encourage them to stay because that when you move for just money, it never ends up a successful move. So the reasons that you would move maybe your way rates are too high, maybe there’s conflict, you’re getting conflicted every time you try to bring in a matter, you can’t bring it in, because it’s conflicted out. You don’t like the culture, you don’t like your partner’s money could be a combination of those things. And sometimes actually is a byproduct of some of those things are the platform’s the wrong platform for you. Sometimes I talked to partners who say, I’m in this big international firms, I don’t need it. And I feel like I’m getting paid less, because we have to pay for the international practice. Sometimes it’s the opposite. Sometimes they’ll call me and say, I have all these international opportunities. But my firm doesn’t have these offices, I need to move. Sometimes they want bigger, sometimes they need smaller, it’s really dictated by their clients. Sometimes your client will say to you, I just had this recently, you need to move because I’m about to fire you. And so you know, that’s another reason. But there’s all sorts of reasons to leave. If you’re not successful at your firm, you need to evaluate these things. If you’re frustrated year after year, you’re only bringing in let’s say 250,000, you can’t seem to move off that needle, is it you? Or is it the firm and that’s where you come in? Steve,
Steve Fretzin [15:58]
I love the opportunity to and my job is like not to move people, my job is no matter what is going on to represent the individual similar to what you’re doing, to make sure that they’re putting their best foot forward. And if they’re not in the right environment, culturally, or the right platform, or their compensations, you know, they just keep getting passed over for equity. But all the numbers are there, whatever the reason is, you know, I try to advocate for them. And if they need to move, they need to move, right, we just want to make sure we support that. The other thing I wanted to ask you about is really about, you know, women in law, I’m disappointed if I’m being honest about the number of women that come to me for help, I’m here for everybody, and not just men in everything. So there’s definitely a gap between, you know, I would say only, you know, maybe 15% of the coaching clients I take on every year are women, and I’m not sure why maybe you could shed some light on that and how you work to help empower women to.
Susan Mendelsohn [16:54]
So it’s interesting, when I work with women in moving, they’re much more difficult to move. And I’m going to tell you why in a minute. And also, I’ve told you this before that I sometimes will informally coach my laterals after they move, maybe while they’re moving, because they’ll tell me about their practices. And I’ll say, oh, you should be doing, you know, XYZ or, you know, and after they move, I might meet with them a few times and help them, men will ask me to do it, women do not. And when it gets to more anything formal, obviously, I kicked them over to you or someone like you, because that’s not my expertise. But you know, women tend to, they don’t want to rock the boat, right. And they have typically have two jobs, they typically have their home job and they have their workshop. So to take on business development on top of all of that is overwhelming to them. So the women, particularly with younger children, it’s really hard for them to go out and go to Marketing go to, you know, business events at night, to take on extra things that will take away from their billable hour, you know, billable day. And so they tend to not want to do it. And so I think that’s why you’re not getting hired as much as you know, men hire you, that’s a significant reason. And the women that really work on this, and that drive business into the firm, they’re already driving business into the firm. And so they view themselves as not needing any help.
Steve Fretzin [18:14]
Yeah, and you know, it’s disappointing, because one of the things that I tried to do is to work with women to help them, you know, leverage their, you know, relationships and friendships and a lot of angst about hey, I’m, you know, this is a friend of mine, I don’t wouldn’t feel comfortable asking for business. And, you know, for women, it just seems to be generally more uncomfortable than it does for men to just, you know, be comfortable just saying what they want to say. And I try to, you know, work with women on specific language, right, so that they can make it comfortable and make it almost like the other person’s idea, as opposed to being very direct. And so again, you know, sometimes it’s just about strategies to work through or around the gaps or the issues or that or the angst that people have, you know, whether they’re women or men, but in this case, you know, I think that there’s an avenue for women to take, and this is not me, mansplaining. This is, you know, experienced talking that women have big networks, they know a lot of people, and they’re just not leveraging it, right. And when they do, it’s like the whole world opens up. And we just need to step through that door together, and good things happen.
Susan Mendelsohn [19:16]
It’s true, I just, but I think it’s a time issue. It really is a time management issue. And it’s not their fault. I mean, it’s really having been one of those women who had kids had a job, it’s really hard. I happen to have developed a large practice, but it’s something I just wanted to do. Because I realized early on that that was my ticket to freedom. And that was my ticket to being my own boss versus at someone else’s, you know, beck and call, obviously, my clients demanded time from me, but I could really manage my time better by having a practice, which is what I tell women all the time, it’s worth the investment. Because when you have the practice, you have more control over your time, and then therefore you can manage your family and the business. So that’s something how do I empower women? You know, whenever I talk to them, and I realized but they’re really not being treated well, their firm, whether it’s because their compensation is much lower, they’re not being valued. I really tried to boost their confidence. And you know, I might spend two, three years boosting their confidence before they realize, oh, wait, I’m not being treated well, I’m going to move. It’s not necessarily about the move for me, because sometimes there’s one that I’ve talked to her for years and gave her the confidence to go and ask for more money and to ask for more of a profile within the firm. And she did ultimately get that and she’s ecstatically happy.
Steve Fretzin [20:31]
And if you’re listening, and you’re interested in learning more about empowering women, I can tell you, I’ve done three interviews with three amazing women lawyers that you should be checking out their podcast, Dahlia CEPR, shout out to Dahlia, and Stacy Calomiris. And then most recently, Corrine Hegyi, from May 27 episode, I mean, just lays out, you know, what she did to be successful in managing her time and managing her business and her book and how she got ahead in her firm. So, you know, this is all important stuff, but I think, you know, learning from others, and taking ideas and on time management and on how to improve balance, they’re all you know, learnable skills and workable skills, I try to delegate look, I’m busy to not busy as maybe some other people, but whatever, I’m delegating everything I can everything. And even if that means I have to delegate some time with my son to, you know, having someone else, you know, carpool to take him to back and forth from diving practice, there’s things that we can do to try, you know, open up time if we really work at it. So, anyway,
Susan Mendelsohn [21:32]
so delegate within your firm and asking for help is really important. Being able to ask for help, and it’s okay to let things go and know they may not be done exactly the way you’ve done them, but or the way you would do it. But as long as it gets done properly, and well. And the clients happy, it’s okay. Do you know Amy Manny, by any chance? I don’t think so. She’s a powerhouse and McGuireWoods. She’d be a great person for you to interview. She’s so awesome. She’s very cool lady. She also plays in a band, who I like lap band. That’s really cool. To do. So she’s super cool.
Steve Fretzin [22:04]
We have that on tape. So we know that
every everybody else knows everyone knows me. If
Steve Fretzin [22:09]
you’re listening, it’s coming your way. You’re awesome. Let’s sort of, you know, wrap things up with one kind of final question. Obviously, you know, I don’t know about finishing up but this pandemic that’s been going on for the last year plus, and how has that changed recruiting for the better for the worse? And what do you see kind of moving forward here?
Susan Mendelsohn [22:31]
It’s very interesting. So it started out, obviously, everything died, people panicked, absolute panics, and no one wanted to move. And then all of a sudden, in the summer, I think firms realized, wait a minute, there’s a lot of opportunity here, because some firms aren’t handling this, well, we can pick some people off. And then the games began. And it was heavy duty recruiting, heavy duty merger discussions, and all of a sudden, everything’s falling apart. Again. I mean, it’s not just, you know, I’m hearing this from other recruiters, I’m hearing this from my clients, they’re saying, We cannot seem to close a deal, everything’s falling apart. And I don’t know if that’s because now things are opening up. And people want to get back to their phones and get back to their life and then see how things settle down and how they want to move forward, whether they want to move. But I do think there’s a shift in the market too related to the remote working, you know, people are waiting to see some wants to remain remote. And if their firms are requiring them to come back, even as partners do they want to do that. Or vice versa, if their firm is allowing more remote, and they don’t want to be remote, all of these things are a lot of factors playing into this. And it will be interesting to see what happens and Fisher burrows, I don’t know if you’ve saw now made the amla 200 list and they’re really killing it with this whole virtual law firm thing. And before no one was even paying attention to them. And now all of a sudden, they’re very much on the radar. So it’ll be interesting to see how the market plays out.
Steve Fretzin [23:48]
Yeah, it is really interesting. And I some assumption that, you know, lawyers were going to get crushed in this recession, and that I was gonna be turning people away because I’d be too busy. And I’m definitely busy. But I think it’s actually been really good for many lawyers. I mean, there’s just so much turmoil and craziness and money going around right now that they’re busy. I mean, I’m having lawyers having their best months ever, you know, whether it’s you know, real estate or litigation or whatever. So, it’s just a really kind of weird time to be a lawyer and but it’s interesting to hear your take on it.
Susan Mendelsohn [24:19]
Just look at the amlaw numbers. They’re through the roof. Not uncommon to hear a firm say, you know, we’re over 80% from last year we’re over 20% It’s very common right now. Yeah. Which is great. I hope it continues. So
Steve Fretzin [24:31]
affirm an individual someone’s listening wants to engage you or talk to you further about your services. How do they get in touch with you? What’s the key? Well,
Susan Mendelsohn [24:39]
they can email me at Ask Mendelssohn and Mendelson legal.com They can call me at 312-332-8801 Either way, they’ll be able to get in touch with me.
Okay, keep going. I’m not hard. I was gonna say you’re fine, but keep go.
Susan Mendelsohn [24:54]
And my website is Mendelson legal.com www dot Mendelssohn legal.com. I got the internet’s next to the end.
Steve Fretzin [25:03]
There you go. Well, listen, it’s been a pleasure. It’s you know, I knew when we for lunch that we were going to have a dynamic conversation we’re going to give some good takeaways really lay out the landscape of what’s going on in the firm space individual lawyer space. And I think we nailed that in spades. So just thanks again. I really just I appreciate you appreciate our friendship. I know we’re going to be you know, moving, looking to continue to talk and refer and all that fun stuff. So thanks again for taking some time with me. Yeah,
Susan Mendelsohn [25:29]
thank you for inviting me today. Steve. I really appreciate it’s been a lot of fun. Yeah,
Steve Fretzin [25:33]
my pleasure. Hey, everybody, please keep the date open August 20. Me and superstar marketing expert Frank Ramos are going to be doing a two hour two time event coming up on everything sales and marketing related to grow your law practice, check it firstname.lastname@example.org programs and you’ll see what it’s all about and you can register right there from my website. Hope to see you there. And listen everybody again you know the goal of this show is always to help you grow your practice to be that lawyer the one you know everyone’s talking about you know you’ve got your act together, confident organized a skilled Rainmaker. If you enjoy this show and other shows, please be sure to like us comment share, we’d write something nice. People like to read nice things. And if you’re enjoying the show, maybe someone else will too. So appreciate you and listening and spending some time and take care of the safety well.
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website fretzin.com. For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes