In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Walt Hampton discuss:
- Your extraordinary toolbelt taught in law school.
- Success beyond what society thinks it should be.
- Why you should write a book and what it can do for your book of business.
- Writing, publishing, and marketing a book.
- There will be amazing rewards for those who can lean into the discomfort.
- With a book in the world you have the capacity to touch people beyond your wildest imaginations.
- From a business perspective, there is no better credibility builder, authority builder, expertise builder, client attracting magnet than having a book.
- You have to put yourself out there to promote your book, your services, and your business.
“If we feel called, as you and I do, to have a broader impact, or global impact, as you and I are privileged to do, then figuring out ways to leverage that is important.” — Walt Hampton
Connect with Walt Hampton:
Publishing Resource: http://summitpresspublishers.com/steve
Previous Episode: https://www.fretzin.com/walt-hampton-time-mastery-through-self-mastery/
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Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
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Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
book, lawyers, people, world, marketing, write, calls, walt, podcast, life, big, impact, joy, stand, independent publisher, legalese, create, helping, steve, leverage
Narrator, Walt Hampton, Steve Fretzin, Jordan Ostroff
Walt Hampton [00:00]
We can do important work, we can impact a lot of people that way. But if we feel called as you and I do to have a broader impact or global impact as you and I are privileged to do, then figuring out ways to leverage that is important.
You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer, coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin [00:45]
Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer, I hope you are having a fabulous day. Well, look, it’s here in Chicago, it’s January, it’s cold. And I was outside playing a sport platform tennis for those of you who don’t know, can Google it or look it up on YouTube, but it’s a sport we play in the cold in the winter in Chicago outside. So people think I’m nuts. But we do it and we layer up and we go outside and we play this great sport, it’s a ton of fun. And we just have to figure out how to keep ourselves happy between the work we’re doing and our balance of our lives and family and our activities. And I’ve got a guest today who is just amazing. And he’s he’s outside, he’s got no fear of the cold or out of being outside. You’ll hear about more of that in a minute from my guest, Walt Hampton, who’s a second time appearance on V that lawyer, but he submitted a quote to me, and I want to talk about it. First, I want to thank our sponsors, that’s legalese marketing, and of course, money, Penny, two awesome, awesome companies to help you improve efficiencies, as a lawyer as a law firm, to really focus on being that lawyer and focus on you know, running your business and in outsourcing to people that can do things better than you can in some instances. So thank them I was gave me this quote, and I love it. It is from Howard Thurman, don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. And I think that’s fantastic. And that is that is true. We don’t want to have a mundane, boring existence of the same day in day out. We need to live our lives. And and I’ve been in close encounters with death. And I’m sure Walt has to. And if nothing else, it proves we need to live every day to the fullest. We need to help others. We need to live our lives. We need to have fun. We need to do things that challenge us, Walt, welcome to the show.
Walt Hampton [02:37]
Steve, what a great joy to be with you what a privilege. I so honor you for the work you do for our great profession. And and I’m grateful for this opportunity to be on the podcast a second time. Thank you so much for having me.
Steve Fretzin [02:51]
Yeah, well, there’s no one I’d rather have on than you. You’re one of my favorite people. And we’re going to learn all about you and everyone that hasn’t heard your first interview with me. They’re going to hear about you today and be impressed like I always am. What is that quote? You gave me that quote for a reason? What does that quote mean to you?
Walt Hampton [03:07]
I think joy is our birthright. And I do think we have one of the greatest professions on the planet. And way too many of us as lawyers, we get caught in the weeds we get caught in the minutia, we get caught in the office drama, we get caught up in the stress and the overwhelm of our profession, and we lose sight of that joy. And so if the last 20 months, have shown us anything, it is as you suggest that life is fragile, life is fleeting, and we have the opportunity, and dare I say the responsibility to lean into those places that bring us joy, that bring us happy happiness, and to step into this great profession in a way that lights us up.
Steve Fretzin [03:49]
And you’re not talking trash. I mean, you’ve got an incredible background that everyone needs to hear about. And I want to give you a moment to do that. We’re speaking with Walt Hampton. He’s the founder of Summit success, international waltz, a friend of mine, and talk a little bit about your not only your legal background, but also the things that you’re that you’ve done to take life, you know, by the reins and really drive it because that’s sort of been your been your baby for a while.
Walt Hampton [04:17]
Sure. So thank you for the opportunity to share the journey because it’s illustrative of some of the things we’re going to talk about. I came out of Cornell Law School in 1984, I loved law school, I became a litigator at quote, the big firm. I was good at it, but it never ever lit me up in a way that brought me joy. I found it intellectually stimulating. I found the relationships gratifying, but I found the adversarial nature of it wearing and I attributed that to big firm life and it wasn’t really that but believing that I went out and I started my own litigation firm and I had my own litigation firm and grew it to a significant presence in the in the heartburn market doing commercial litigation and criminal defense. And over a decades, I realized this was not really where I was called to be even, even though I wish I had all the hallmarks of success, I had all of the the toys and the indicia of success. And it still wasn’t something that that brought me a lot of satisfaction and joy. And through a set of circumstances, I had the opportunity to meet and work with Tony Robbins and I became an executive coach and one of 70 of Tony’s elite level certified results coaches. And then because because I’m entrepreneurial back in 2007, my wife, and che Bonnie, the publisher of Summit, press publishers, we’re going to talk about that today. We started summit success International, where we get to serve entrepreneurs and business professionals, and especially lawyers all around the world to help them to create great businesses that give them great lives. And so that’s the short story of the of the journey. But one of the teaching points that I just want to insert here, Steve and I talk with law students about this all the time, is that it’s really easy to go down rabbit holes, default rabbit holes in the law and end up in estate planning or tax or ERISA decades after law school. And I didn’t get here. And we forget, as lawyers, that we come out of law school with a unique way of thinking within a unique way of problem solving, the ability to communicate and advocate, we come out with a tool belt that is so extraordinarily valuable and useful in so many areas of the of the world, that we can be that lawyer in so many contexts, and there are places that will light you up and bring you unbridled happiness.
Steve Fretzin [07:05]
Yeah, and that’s in that’s just so important. And I think now more than ever, with the great resignation and everything going on, you know, lawyers have so many options in so many different directions they can go whether it’s legal tech, whether it’s not just general entrepreneur, entrepreneurship, and starting your own firm. I mean, I’m seeing a record number of my law firm clients going out on their own. It’s really exciting to an exciting time and a scary time for some law firms. But a exciting time for attorneys.
Walt Hampton [07:32]
Very exciting. I say often these days that we are on the threshold of one of the most extraordinary opportunities in a generation, I think we’re in a once in a generation inflection point for those who can lean into the discomfort, there are going to be amazing rewards. Yeah, and
Steve Fretzin [07:51]
the other thing I wanted to just mention is, you know, and this is a good lead into our topic for today is you know, you’re an author, and it’s so funny because I when I met you, I your name look familiar. And then you mentioned the book, I was like, Wait a second, and I’m like, I remembered the book. I remember the cover. And I was like, Oh my God, I’ve read this book. So the power principles of time mastery, right.
Walt Hampton [08:13]
So that’s my second book, which I’m very proud of my first book is journeys on the edge, living a life that matters, a two time, Amazon bestseller and a two time winner of the North American Book Awards. And it in very, very much relates to that quote, that Howard, Howard Thurman quote about seminal message journeys on the edge is that we are called to live richly, deeply, fully here now before the clock runs out. And then the power principles of time mastery came off the back of that, because people would say, I read the book, but I have no idea how to actually implement the teachings that you share there about creating a life you love. And that led to the power of principles that give people a structure for how they can, how they can manage themselves create, consciously create the lives they want. Yeah, well, it’s
Steve Fretzin [09:11]
so it’s obviously books. And I’ve written for now, I mean, the newest one, legal business development isn’t rocket science available on Amazon if you’re interested, everybody. And the reason that I write these books is because I know that I’m just one person and there’s no way I’m going to be able to help everybody like personally, right? There’s a million lawyers plus, and there’s one of me so so what what’s the next thing I can do? And my thought was, why don’t I try to get the things that I’m teaching my clients every day out to the general you know, legal population and let the ambitious attorneys the interested attorneys go purchase it or get it on Kindle? I think some of them are for free or very inexpensive on Kindle, but that’s so there’s a number of reasons to write a book. One of them is getting your information out your education. dishing out helping other people. And then there’s another side of it, which is the branding and marketing side of it, which is, by the way, not a bad thing, either. So what does it take? You know, who should who should write a book? Like who? What attorney that’s listening right now, it should be like, I need to write a book. And what’s the right timing? Like? How does what’s the process for thinking about writing a book to decide to do it or not to do it?
Walt Hampton [10:24]
Well, first of all, I love what you shared about, I’ll characterize it as impact. Many of us as lawyers, or were trained in that, you know, time for money, trade that one on one service. And that’s great, we can do important work, we can impact a lot of people that way. But if we feel called as you and I do to have a broader impact, or global impact, as you and I are privileged to do, then figuring out ways to leverage that is important. And though and the leverage point for me was interesting, it was an interesting little story I had published, or journeys was just published in its first release. And I didn’t really have any good focus, republishing journeys, other than it was a passion project to start with, which, by the way, is not a great way to enter into the publishing world. But I was sitting in a restaurant in northern Vermont, on top of a mountain, about six months after the release of juries, and this woman comes up behind me and she stands behind me, and she looks around the corner, and she says, Are you Wolverhampton? I said, I said, Yes, I have no idea what this woman walhampton The, like the author, and I said, in fact, yes, and she was thrilled. So this person I never knew, had seen the book and read it and loved it. And the light bulb went on in that moment, that with a book in the world, we have the capacity to touch people beyond our wildest imaginations. And the way I teach him now, of course, is that book is like a pebble in the pond, it touches shores, way beyond what we can see distant shores. And so one is one reason to write the book is, is that impact idea that it impacts a lot of lives. And it leverages our ability to connect with other people. The other thing that is wonderful about a book is that many of us because we’re at the top of Maslow’s pyramid want meaning, purpose, Impact and legacy. And a book stands the test of time, which is a beautiful thing. You know, your books and my books will, will be on people’s shelves for long, long periods of time helping people even beyond the end of our own lifetime, which is a beautiful thing to think about. And from a business perspective, there is no better credibility builder, authority builder, expertise builder, client attracting magnet than having a book.
Steve Fretzin [13:00]
Right. So all of that is spot on. And I found that to be the case. And I think, you know, this podcast has also been something I don’t know if this will stand the test of time, the way a book does, probably not because it’ll get archived or something at some point in 50 years, or 20 years or whatever. But but definitely the books do that. But a book isn’t for everybody. There are ambitious people and interested people that want to do a book, who should and who shouldn’t. So I think,
Walt Hampton [13:29]
from a marketing standpoint, and you and I are going to talk about it, I think any lawyer who wants to grow and scale for his practice, their practice, ought to have a book. However, caveat, I believe that there are many lawyers who are happy being generalists. They have general practices, maybe they’re in rural places. And what they want to do is have their general practice, it is probably not a good ROI to spend your time writing a book, folks, even who are in firms, and this is a bit of an anachronism, it was true when I was in the big firm that, you know, if you’re in a big firm, and you’re simply a technocrat, you do not have any obligation. Again, this is really rare to go out and to build business, then you probably shouldn’t write a book. But if you have an area of law that you really like that you want to be known for. And if you want to leverage that, there’s no better way than having a an authority building expert positioning book.
Steve Fretzin [14:37]
The other side of it is there are some books that you sit down and write over months or or maybe sometimes years, and you just that’s your goal, to write the book to knock it out and get it published. Okay. The other thought that I had and I was talking to a client of mine about this the other day, because he’s so busy, and I was like so on top of this, and then on top of that, and on top of that, you’re going to now also I’ll write a book. And I kind of push back at him. Because, you know, it’s like even trying to schedule time with this guy was difficult that he’s going to somehow write this book. So I wasn’t trying to be negative. What I suggested was, what about writing an article a week? Or what about writing a two articles a month, and then over a year, you’ve got 24 articles, those 24 articles, if it’s on a specific topic, that could be 24 chapters. And he sort of liked that, because that took a little the pressure off that if it ends up not being a book, or if he ends up giving up, it’s not the end of the world. Meanwhile, he’s got great content that he’s putting out there anyway. So is that is that was I right in that messaging? Or was I kind of being too negative?
Walt Hampton [15:42]
I think that that’s an extraordinary way we teach that way as well, you know, we call them or write a blog a week. Yeah. And, you know, over the course of 18 months, that becomes a lot of content. And so I think that’s an extraordinarily great way to go about it. And the other way to ideate around it, of course, is you know, you and I have both been a book book signings and people come up and say, Oh, Mr. Fretzin, I love your book, I’ve always wanted to write one. And, you know, if you wrote a like a page a day, for, you know, 50 weeks, you’d have a serious draft manuscript that you’d have to do some serious editing down to get a consumable book. So it’s really just some type of consistent practice, whether it be that weekly blog, or that that weekly article, or even over the course of 24 months, you know, doing what you’ve suggested, you can build a book without going to Venice and sitting on the Grand Canal and wearing a Baray. And writing at Harry’s Bar, you can you can actually do it in the course of a busy practice.
Jordan Ostroff [16:46]
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Steve Fretzin [17:33]
And you’ve been, you know, obviously, years and years ago, you had to have a publisher, you had to have you know, someone that bought into your concept or bought into your book so that you could get it marketed and get it out there. I think we all understand, you know, Amazon and how things have changed. But can you describe kind of, from your perspective, how things have changed in how that relates to the ease of, of publishing a book if someone has that desire?
Walt Hampton [17:56]
Yes. So over the years, have some success has grown, we have in fact, grown, what is now an equal arm to our executive coaching arm, which is summit press publishers. Talk a little bit about that summit press publishers works with business professionals who want to write client attracting books that summit publishers.com. And one of the things that we saw early on in writing books and helping people get books out in the world is that there are some huge drawbacks to the now anachronistic traditional publishing route. One is that it takes years to get your book out, you have to write a proposal, you have to get an agent, the agent shops, the book, The House buys the book. And the process in the house will take 18 to 24 months. And so you have some great idea right now on the pandemic or employment related issues related to the pandemic and you want to get a book out in the world. Well, a traditional publisher is not going to be for you, you’re going to want to work with an independent publisher who can get your book to market in months and not years. The second problem with the old inaccurate stick traditional publishing house is when they have you sign ladies and gentlemen of the law, the small print says that you give up your intellectual property to the publishing house. And the money off a book these days is not the book it is the programs and the products that you can create off the back end of the book. In fact, lawyers can have extraordinary leveraged freedom with products and programs that they launch off the back of a book, The third issue and everybody gets all razzle dazzle around traditional public, I’m gonna get big advance. Well, first of all, unless you’re Michelle Obama or Condoleezza Rice, you’re not gonna get a big advance you’re gonna get you know, maybe a Have a small five figure advance and in advance is an advance against royalties that you actually have to pay back. Which leads me to a fourth issue, which is the royalties from traditional publishing are like tiny, tiny pennies. And so traditional publishing has all sorts of drawbacks. For me, the two biggest are the time to market and the intellectual property issues. So working with an independent publisher, you can get your message out in the world and have that impact and that influence and make the money you deserve much faster.
Steve Fretzin [20:34]
Yeah, and not trying to throw a wet blanket on top of yours. But I did work with a legal publisher for my second book. And to say that it was a disaster would be an understatement in every way, the length it took for them to edit the way the book looked, the marketing was non existent, everything they had promised was was fell short. So I just was so disgruntled, I ended up pulling the book from them. And we agreed to disagree and I went off on my own. And then when I self published it, it took off, and it ended up being a really big hit, and sold a lot of copies and built a lot of brand. So let’s transition that to the to the self publishing side. And then once we get through that I want to talk about in really get into the weeds a little bit about marketing the book and, and what are three or four tips to market a book that that really makes it shine and makes it worth worth the worth its weight?
Walt Hampton [21:29]
Awesome. So one of the things you and I talked about before the podcast was, I love the question about the self publishing, and it can be done, we figured it out, you figured it out, any bright person can figure it out. And the resource we’re going to share with your listeners is going to be at Summit Presh publishers.com, forward slash Steve. And it’s a step by step guide for getting your book published. And so it’s going to be a really good resource for people who actually want to go that road. And it involves writing the manuscript, getting the manuscript copy, edited, holistically edited, doing interior design, doing exterior design, getting your cover done getting your idea, ISBN number, and your Library of Congress number, and then as you suggest doing the marketing and the distribution. And all of that can be done. And it can be done with a good team, if you’ve got some admin in your office who will help you that’s great. And I actually enjoy the process. And I can see that you enjoy the process. And if you find a good independent publisher, they’re going to get it out there faster and easier. And as you suggest, Steve, the Fit has to be right for the book, and for your market. So I will transition to Part B unless we want to talk more about that, which is how you market a book. Yeah, let’s
Steve Fretzin [22:47]
go to Marketing the book. I just know that that’s the scariest part. Next to writing it. Step one, step two, it’s like, Hey, I just wrote this book, and it took me a year or two or whatever. And now, now what like I’m sitting on this, this book that I think is great, and then maybe other people will think it’s great and all that. But if we’re not if we’re not marketing it effectively, if we’re not leveraging all the tools at our disposal, I think it might be, you know, it might be you know, it fizzle out, or it might not get you what you really were hoping for. So let’s talk about that.
Walt Hampton [23:22]
So I love that question. And it’s a question that leads to overall marketing and business development for lawyers, because they’re, they’re hand in glove. And a lot of points here. But I’m just I’ll tease out. One thing that you and I have already done on this podcast, we’ve both pitched our books. And being on podcasts like this having a podcast or being a guest on a podcast, you and I have just shared our books, your four, my two, with a big audience. So getting out in the world and sharing on a platform like a podcast is a wonderful way to market a book and to showcase your expertise. You do amazing work with your Rainmaker groups and with your private clients. I love to coach lawyers and help them grow and scale businesses. We both just featured the work we do in a big way in the world, just suspending the fourth wall. Getting out. Go ahead. Sorry.
Steve Fretzin [24:17]
Oh, yeah, I was just gonna say and and by the way, there are companies now that help you get on podcasts, there are companies that you know, can help you with your personal branding and promotion. It’s not just figure it out on your own. You know, you can you can Google it and say, How do I get on podcast and there’ll be five companies that pop up that that’s their new business is getting up, but I get calls on a regular basis and emails from people that want to be on my show. And they’re from producers, and they’re from promoters that have lawyers that are attend to being amazing guests. I mean, not all of them, but so I’m just trying to put it out there that it’s one thing to say, you know, get on podcasts, but a lot of lawyers don’t know how to get on podcasts. And so there are companies that don’t charge It’s too much to do it. But it might be worthwhile, that if you’re gonna put the time into a book that you might want to spend a little, a couple bucks to, to get a promoter to help get you on those podcasts or get you speaking gigs or whatever it might be.
Walt Hampton [25:12]
That’s awesome. Yes. And you mentioned speaking gigs, that’s the other great, great marketing. It’s great marketing, in general, for lawyers to showcase themselves. Anybody who stands in front of a room, particularly real rooms, but virtual rooms to and virtual rooms will come back at CLAS, at legal conferences, at chambers, that professional association events, when you stand in front of a room, you’re seen as a category authority. And when you’re seen as a category authority, the book serves that and the book also is a vehicle that gets you on that stage. And from that stage, you can promote the book. So that’s another place that’s a very powerful and effective way to promote your book and yourself.
Steve Fretzin [25:56]
And what’s something What’s something, Walt that people don’t even think about that, you know, about book promotion and book marketing, that someone that maybe already has a book out, but never even thought that this was another outlet to to get a book promoted, or to sell books or whatever? What are what are maybe what’s a hidden secret that you have.
Walt Hampton [26:17]
So I think that when you’re getting a book out, and you and your team and me and my team, were already talking about this for your amazing next book, is putting together a launch team. And that sounds all fancy, but you put together a group of friends, colleagues and associates, and you create an event around the promotion and launch of the book launching is a term of art in the marketing world. But basically, it’s about creating this amazing fervor in a short period of time that gives that book, the traction that it needs to then grow exponentially out in the world. So putting together a group of people creating the copy and the advertisement for the book, helping your friends and associates create some type of calendar, so that the all of that stuff happens in a short period of time, creating some content around that, and putting this all within a block of 10 days to two weeks. And then blasting it out all at once creates this, this synergistic impact. And it’s actually done right, it can actually get you Amazon bestseller status, which in and of itself will begin to feed on itself. So I think, you know, the, the hack that I would share is put together a group of people that you co collaborate and CO conspire with to get the book out with a big flurry.
Steve Fretzin [27:47]
Yeah, that’s so so some people would just do what’s like a book launch party or book launch event. And I’ve done those a number of times, and they’ve been phenomenal and great way to promote, I think you’re talking about a whole other a whole other level. So the book launch event, great, maybe it’s a book signing, but then you’ve got social media promotion, you’ve got podcasts like crazy that you’re doing, you’ve got speaking engagements you’re doing in all of that combined and in, like you said, a week to two week period is going to give you more exposure and more of a bang than then, you know, again, just kind of sitting back and hey, I put it on Amazon and let’s cross our fingers.
Walt Hampton [28:26]
Yes, exactly. And so there is a way to do that. And it’s a really effective way to do that. And you can drive best seller status and momentum across time with that. The other thing and we talked about traditional publishing, if you go in those of us who were raised back in a Neanderthal days, the Rolodex was the sign of impact and influence in the world today. For people in the digital marketing world. It’s your list and the size of your list. And the size of your list matters in marketing in general, but it also matters in in publishing. And so as you’re writing your book, another really important thing is to be thinking about how you’re going to position yourself pre launch so that you’ve got people who are expected and wanting that and you’re blasting out to your list and you’re getting those people to buy as well.
Steve Fretzin [29:23]
Yeah, well those are there’s awesome tips and again, you know, deciding to get to to write a book and why and then if the answer is yes, how to do it and then different some different ways to do it and publish it. And then the marketing we’ve kind of covered the soup to nuts on it. And so we’re wrapping up in just any any kind of final words of encouragement to lawyers that have something to say about life or have something to say about the law, or or or how to, you know, solve problems or stories to tell that are considering a book.
Walt Hampton [29:54]
So story matters, personal story matters. Connecting through personal story really matter. ers. And having a book that expresses who you are, what you stand for in the world, how you stand for that becomes your unique brand identity. One of the challenges that lawyers have is that you know, so many of us we come out of school we wear the same suits drive the same car as belong to the same clubs and associations, we look the same talk the same act the same. And everybody wonders why we don’t stand out in the marketplace. And that’s because we have never taken the time to really claim our unique brand identity. And when you show up as you, uniquely you, with your message with the way you share your information with the world, nobody can compete with you. There is no competition there. And a book will help you get there.
Steve Fretzin [30:44]
Yeah, well, great way to wrap up the segment. I really appreciate it. And I’ve got a final question for you before we wrap up, and that is, what’s your joy? I mean, I know what it is. But I want you to share your what what do you do outside of helping lawyers and being an awesome, you know, producer of books and just, you know, the businesses that you run? What do you enjoy doing?
Walt Hampton [31:05]
My passions are high altitude mountaineering and ultra distance running. And as I shared with you before we went live, I’m just back from three weeks in the Himalayas, the mountains are my great joy I have stood on for the Seven Summits of the world. My wife and business partner, the publisher at Summit press, publisher, publishers, and che Bonnie, she’s a she’s my climbing partner as well. And being in the mountains, connecting with myself, connecting with the ground literally having that silence, that stillness, that ability, that time and space to think and reflect and to be in the grand jury that is our world. That’s my happy place. And that’s what brings me joy.
Steve Fretzin [31:45]
Now, that’s awesome man. And just such an incredible background, not only in legal but in life and how you’ve taken, you know, again, the reins and really, you know, driven in the direction that you want it to drive and helping others along the way and making a real impact. So I’m a fan, you’re one of my heroes, and I’m just so so happy that you were open to coming back on the show and sharing your wisdom with my audience because it’s just you’ve got you’ve got the goods my friend
Walt Hampton [32:10]
I saw honor you you know that I love you and I honor you for the the impact that you’re making the people’s lives, the colleagues in our profession that you lift up, and I just I so appreciate and I’m grateful for the work you do. And I’m grateful for our friendship and I’m grateful for this opportunity today. Thank you. Well, thank
Steve Fretzin [32:29]
you Walt. Listen, we’re having a bit of a love fest hopefully you guys aren’t too nauseous at this point. But listen, you know when you find when you find someone that’s your you know, brother from another mother or however you want to look at it, you lean into it and then Walt and I obviously feel very strongly about each other which is great and you know, it’s all about learning and improving and incremental change and taking the life that you want to have and in that direction and this show is all about that and hopefully you guys are are paying attention and having some fun along the way like like we are you know with ball tonight today. Listen all about being that lawyer someone who’s confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Stay tuned. If you liked the show, give us a nice five star review on Amazon or whatever the thumbs up is and keep listening. We’ve got more good guests coming maybe not as good as well but we’ve got good people coming your way. And again, thank you to legalese marketing and money penny for being our great sponsors. Everybody take care of be safe be well, we’ll talk again soon.
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