In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Colin Levy discuss:
- The intersection of law and technology.
- ChatGPT and the applicable potential of AI.
- Benefits and drawbacks of social media platforms.
- Value-based social media content.
- Each social media platform is unique and offers different benefits and risks than the other platforms. Do your research before you dive into using all of them as that is unnecessary.
- Before you do anything else on LinkedIn, use the About Me section to tell your story.
- Be consistent regardless of which platform you choose to use. Do it with intention, start small, and hold to a regular consistent posting schedule.
- Give more than you take on social media. Be creative and demonstrate your authority, but also your authenticity, in your posts.
“LinkedIn has really been the hero. It’s been super empowering and powerful for me to both build my personal professional brand.” — Colin Levy
- The Daily Podcast: https://www.nytimes.com/column/the-daily
- Connect the Dots: https://www.ctd.ai/
- Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/
- ChatGPT: https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/
- AI For Lawyers by Noah Waisberg: https://www.amazon.com/Lawyers-Artificial-Intelligence-Transforming-Profession/dp/1119723841
- On Legal AI by Joshua Walker: https://www.amazon.com/Legal-AI-Joshua-Walker/dp/1949884074
Connect with Colin Levy:
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Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
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YouTube: Steve Fretzin
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Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
Narrator, Colin Levy, Steve Fretzin, MoneyPenny, Jordan Ostroff, Practice Panther
Colin Levy [00:00]
As with you, LinkedIn, for me has been really kind of the hero. It’s been super empowering and powerful for me to build my personal professional brand.
You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer Coach Steve Ritson will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve, Brett said
Steve Fretzin [00:36]
Hey everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. Hope you’re having a lovely day. Here in Chicago. Everybody loves the winters in Chicago. We love the snow we love the cold. If you have to go to Florida or Arizona to avoid it, then you’re a stinker. No one likes you anyway. But it’s another opportunity to really think about how you’re going to grow your business how you’re gonna grow your law practice. B that lawyer has a hit well over 250 episodes now so don’t keep it to yourself. Don’t be greedy. Don’t keep it a secret if there’s opportunities to tell your colleagues your friends your lawyer buddies about it don’t be shy do it and give us a five star review like or rating something kind words appreciated. I’ve got really great show for you today as always I hope we’re doing a good job Collins waiting in the wings how’s it going Colin? Going well, I man Good to have you back here to timer great to be back had a great time last time now. Well, we’re gonna have one up that today I have a feeling we’ve got a really good good plan for our chat today. Of course have to and want to and love to thank our sponsors. We’ve got practice Panther, helping people get organized on the practice management side of the law, business money, Penny helping to manage your live chat on your website in live perception, and legalese helping to take off and help you with your outsourced cmo marketing. A big thing they’ve been doing is helping with training on law Maddox. In fact, they’ve got my law Mannix really, really automated so not taking in any checks anymore. Everything’s being done through automatic contracts. They’re automating how my podcast is running with regards to marketing and helping my guests like Colin, you know, participate in the social media adventure, that’s actually going to be some we’re going to talk about today. But working together to promote a show versus it being just kind of on my shoulders. So with that all being said, Colin, Colin levy is the Director of Legal at Mall back. And Colin, we’ve got your quote of the show, which is the famous Peter Drucker, the best way to predict the future is to create it. So first of all, welcome to the show. Second of all, talk to us about that quote, and why you submitted it, what does that mean to you?
Colin Levy [02:41]
Absolutely. While it’s great to be here, and with respect to the quote, really, for me, it’s all about understanding that you control your own destiny, and you control you. And so to the extent to which you want to do something, or you want to succeed at something, want to learn about something, do it, the only thing holding you back is you. So that’s why that folder is so meaningful is because I have a bias for action, I want to act, I want to go forward, I want to really agree, what it is that I want, as opposed to waiting for it to show up, it might
Steve Fretzin [03:17]
add a couple other points that I mean, don’t let perfect be the enemy of good, right, because that’s what stops people from doing something is that they think it has to be perfect, whether that’s a social media post a business development plan, you know, anything that you’re doing in life, just do it and get it going. And then the other piece of it is, I find people are just getting stuck in their own what I call head trash, and that’s thinking about what other people are thinking about them or what other people are doing, what their competitors are doing that they’re not doing. Right? I mean, sick, all that mishegoss that we’re just dealing with every day, that isn’t really allowing us to focus on what we need to do.
Colin Levy [03:53]
Yeah, absolutely. You know, we are our own worst enemy we get in our way, often all the time, sometimes without us even knowing that we’re in our way So absolutely, it’s really important for us to know ourselves and to not place arbitrary contrived limits on ourselves and allow us to really pursue what it is that is our passion
Steve Fretzin [04:14]
that and I just use the word mister got Mr. Gas is that to get us right? For like a D? Yeah, for like BS for those of you and non Jewish folks. Just sharing a little, a little humor, a little humor and a little Yiddish there. Okay, so, Colin, do us a solid and give us a little bit of of your background in in the space legal tack and, and in leading up to
Colin Levy [04:35]
your current role? Absolutely. So I’ve been probably speaking and writing about legal tech for, you know, five to six years or so. And really it started with me just understanding and seen technology’s impact upon other functions and other parts of the global economy and thinking bold, surely law is not immune to the impact of technology. So I want And to really learn more about that relationship, how it started, how its evolving. And that ruling took the form of me reaching out to people who were talking about it, writing about it, speaking about it, teaching about it. And through those conversations, I learned a lot. And I then decided to start sharing kind of what I was learning with others and sharing my journey with others. And, you know, that really has kind of taken off and presented me with a number of different opportunities to speak and write about legal tech indirectly led to the role that I have now with small back where I am working, actually in legal tack as both a lawyer and a ton of content creator, and it’s just been wonderful.
Steve Fretzin [05:40]
Yeah, really cool. And is there a particular like, be that lawyer tipping point in your in your life in your career where things just took a great a turn for, you know, in a very positive way?
Colin Levy [05:50]
Absolutely. You know, I think that the that lawyer tipping point for me really was when I had my first conversation with someone who is deeply passionate about legal tech and teaching it to law students teaching kind of what it is how to be useful what it is. And that conversation really just set me off on this journey and really, sort of lit this fire me that continues to grow and get bigger about teaching, inspiring others Bell legal tag, and this person has just been a mentor and a friend to me over many years. And it’s just been great to have that relationship and just really have kind of evolved myself and seeing them evolve as well. Yeah, really good
Steve Fretzin [06:34]
stuff. And I know it’s funny. So our last, our last show, we really, you know, took a deep dive on legal tech. And I said to you, you know, we could do that again. And I know a lot has changed in the year and changed since we, you know, year and two years since we did this together. But we really, I really wanted to get your take on social media because you’ve become really prolific in the social media space in the promotion of legal tech and what you do. But before we get into that, I was listening to the daily podcast this morning. I listened to it every morning religiously. I absolutely love it. The content is timely and powerful. And and today they were talking about chat GBT, which is the AI for I think it’s you know, creative writing. Or it could be more than that. I think it’s a lot more than that, actually. But it’s almost like, part of me is scared by it. Because it seems like it’s so powerful in its intelligence. And then the other side of his like, Holy mackerel, like, if I wanted to write an article, and I had a couple of good bullet points, like this thing to basically write the article for me. Then the third thought was, oh, my God, my teenager, if he gets his hands on this, he’s never going to write an essay again. And I’ll just leave it up to that. So what are your thoughts on chat GBT? And for those of you hearing about it, maybe explain Colin, what it is? And then what are your thoughts on it?
Colin Levy [07:45]
Sure. So chat, GBT is essentially a AI algorithm that is dialogue based and allows for you to ask it a question about something it will provide relatively thoughtful response. And if you can, and you can also dictate whether you want to be a short response or detailed response, can ask follow up questions. So it’s really kind of a unique tool that I think is starting to show us some of the real applicable potential of AI. And that sense that allows you to really learn about things and have a conversation with an algorithm in in get some useful information. So you can use it to brainstorm ideas for social media posts, you can use it for brainstorming, or even writing potential articles and things on those lines. I’ve been using now for a little over a week and it’s been great as a source of inspiration and as a source for brainstorming ideas for what I want to write about next or talk about net.
Steve Fretzin [08:44]
Yeah, what they did on the daily was they had it write a love story about Jack and Jill and then they turned it into a as though it was written by Shakespeare and that type of language and they just did just automatically altered like on the spot that then they said well what if we did the same thing but it was written in like by a mobster, and they would get changed to that. And it’s like, oh my God, that’s super cool. I mean, I can just really see a lot of application for that and for especially for people that don’t like to write but no they need to get content out there and I’m like wait a second can this just like like everybody could be superstar content writer now without even using their brain? So I don’t know my a little spooky.
Colin Levy [09:24]
Yeah, it definitely has a lot of potential both good and bad. It’ll be interesting to see how it evolves. But I think you know, what, we all just have to kind of acknowledges technology is here to stay, it’s only going to continue to evolve and embed embed itself in more and more parts of our lives. So I think you kind of have to go along with it to some extent.
Steve Fretzin [09:44]
Yeah. Well, maybe it’s a transition. Look, if you can, you know, people don’t like many of the lawyers I deal with. They don’t feel comfortable or don’t like writing social media posts, right. They don’t want to, they don’t have the time nor the interest in thinking about it as something to put down Whether that’s a rant a poll, and you know, an article, something to post that’s valuable and educational or whatever. And I think maybe that chat GBT might be helpful to them to get something together to do that. But social media is is super just like with AI. I mean, super scary with what it’s doing and what it’s done. And I’m a fan of the social dilemma, the movie, in the sense that it gave us a real insight to the horrors and the fears and the scariness of social media. And our phones generally, let’s talk about social media Friend or foe. Let’s look at both sides of it, and have that dialogue and see where we can pull out the nuggets for the audience here.
Colin Levy [10:43]
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, there’s a lot stuff that has been said about social media, good, bad, and indifferent. And I think the first point I often make about social media is that each platform is different. Each platform offers different benefits in different risks to someone who’s using it. Twitter, for example, tends to be more snarky and short form and seems to instigate more debate. Whereas LinkedIn tends to generate more thoughtful, more longer form posts that are a little less, sort of intended to generate controversy and more intended to share aspects of people’s lives or thoughts that they have about a certain subject or about what they do professionally, or even personally. So every platform is a little bit different. I think, before you started using social media, the first thing I would suggest is understanding kind of what your goal is, and using social media and then seeing how that goal winds up but a specific platform.
Steve Fretzin [11:41]
Yeah, so I think if we look at the different platforms in the top three being, I think LinkedIn, Facebook, and Twitter for maybe more written content, and then obviously, you have Instagram and Tiktok, and other things for, you know, more video based and image based stuff, and maybe some are more b2b. And some are more b2c. And so I think that’s something too is like where, you know, and I hate to use the word targets, but you know, prospects and targets, and who are you looking to work with, and meet and get, you know, build your brand around. And so, for me, I think Facebook is good, but I think, you know, LinkedIn has been the hero of the story, in my story, in the sense of, you know, law, everyone’s on LinkedIn, all lawyers are on LinkedIn, if you’re not on LinkedIn, as a lawyer, I’d be shocked, you’re probably you know, either because your ad or because you just you’re so overwhelmed with things, you don’t want to deal with it, that’s fine. And so those, you know, that’s where I enjoy, you know, putting articles and doing polls, and rants and things that I think can share my views, but always always from a business perspective. So give me your thought on those three, and kind of like which ones might be best for what type of lawyer or what type of person,
Colin Levy [12:50]
right. So as with you, LinkedIn, for me has been really kind of the hero, it’s been super empowering and powerful for me to both build my personal professional brand. I think that’s for a reason, because LinkedIn has a number of different tools that deliberately aimed at businesses to help promote their brand and generate interest and join a community around them. So I really think that if you’re looking at a b2b or b2c kind of business, when did will be probably where to start with for sure. Because it just has the tools and the support that enables that kind of activity. With versus Facebook, Facebook also offer some tools. But Facebook, in some ways is a little less thoughtful in terms of how the tools have been dealt out. And so I think it can generate interest, but probably not as immediate and not as easily trackable as on LinkedIn. So that would be one thing. And then for Twitter, I think Twitter is a great way to kind of just express quick little thoughts about things. And if they’re a little bit snarky or funny, that tends to be a little more beneficial. So that can be tricky sometimes for businesses to accomplish, because they don’t want to, you know, turn away or turn off people that may be potentially interest in their business. There’s a little bit of a balancing act there.
Steve Fretzin [14:15]
Yeah. Well, and boy, you’re in real quick, real quick, Colin lawyers to I think are going to be more sensitive to not only what they posted, but the potential response that that might get.
Colin Levy [14:26]
Oh, absolutely. And that’s why I think they should definitely start with LinkedIn or sure, because it just did benefit and is tailored for kind of glad more innocuous information sharing and empowering, whereas the other platforms, not so not so much. Although I would say that with Instagram, for sure. You know, you can post funny videos and memes of things that can be beneficial for businesses that aren’t, you know, offensive or going to generate some, you know, unexpected controversy.
Steve Fretzin [14:57]
Yeah, most people don’t know that. I even have an instinct Graeme but I do and I have put on quite a few funny pet memes my dog Rocky and my cat Tutsi have a lot of funny interactions and sometimes I’m just in the right place at the right time to capture that on video and then you know I try to make make it like a more of a like a legal slant. So like I’m not It’s not pure, just enjoyment. I’m also because I want to post it on LinkedIn. So I do a lawyer slant about it. So like my dog will do the circles on the couch, basically trying to create a bed out of pillows, I put it to Benny Hill music with if you’re under under 40 You don’t even know what Benny Hill is. But it’s an old English comedy with funny fast music. And then I’d say hey, lawyers, if you find yourself, you know, walking around, run around in circles, figured out business development, you know, talk to frets and so, like try to use it for business. But also it’s something so cute and funny that I watched as my views and like law likes and loves or whatever it is like went up and up and up. I was like, Oh my God, that’s really kind of what has to happen to to get, you know, some reaction.
Colin Levy [16:03]
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Colin Levy [17:34]
So I use Instagram, you know sometimes to post a few I don’t do a lot of means but I do some memes, books, a lot of like the my cat who just happens to have really kind of unique looks and very dominant. And I also sometimes share tweets that I have as well on Instagram, you know, in photo form, because they sometimes are useful. And I’m slowly building up my following Instagram, but it’s certainly not nearly were not nearly to the degree that it is with LinkedIn and Twitter. And that’s I think, in part deliberate on my part in terms of my use of each platform.
Steve Fretzin [18:08]
Yeah, if you had to give one tip specifically for LinkedIn that’s made a difference for you, in getting your message out educating people that in legal tech or building your personal brand, which is where we’re going to kind of we’re going to take this next, what would you say is one thing that people should really consider to do on LinkedIn that makes a difference.
Colin Levy [18:29]
So the biggest thing I think anyone can do, before they do anything else is use their About Me section to tell the story of you, what is your story, what it is you want other people to know about you, you know, you have a lot of space there to do whatever you want in that space. And my suggestion is take advantage of it. You know, you can include a little graphics you can include, you know, it doesn’t have to be just text, but you really want to be telling the story of you. And so that would be my number one tip now. Yeah, really
Steve Fretzin [19:00]
good. And I would just add to that be consistent. I think if you just post once, every once in a while, once a month, you know, once a year, you’re not going to get anything out of it because that those posts come and go. So if you want to do it, do it with intention to do it once a week, five times a week, whatever it is that you’re comfortable and can do. Maybe start small and just focus on one doing one poll a week or doing one rant are we and what I mean by rant is all taxed something you’ve got an angle on or an idea about that’s, you know, not totally controversial, but maybe we’ll get people behind you with it because it’s something they think too but having no one’s really you know, wrote it written it out or set it and you did but I think being consistent is something really critical if you’re going to get involved in it and you’re going to use it as a tool then you know, put it in your tool bag.
Colin Levy [19:49]
Yeah, absolutely. I was gonna be my second suggestion actually was use the about me section and then be consistent. I mean, I started off by just call me hitting different people’s posts. Every day and tagging them in my comments will be sought. But now I’m posting every day my own content and comments and other people, you don’t have to, you know, you don’t have to go from you know, be zero to speed and or you can find somewhere in the middle. But I think consistency, as you aptly pointed out is really important.
Steve Fretzin [20:19]
And I’ll just wrap it up, wrap up the segment by saying, I’m using YouTube all the time for learning new things, meaning if I have a problem with my kitchen sink, you know, in the garbage disposal, I’ll look at YouTube to say, what are the three five things that it could be? Can I fix it myself as it sort of over my paygrade, get better get a plumber, I do that for social media, I do that for podcasting, I do that for things where I feel like I always and I’m always trying to learn. But YouTube has been such a great tool for that. And I would say, you know, personal plug in and also to be helpful to you everyone listening, that if you go to my YouTube channel, just type in Steve Fretts. And on YouTube, I have a very good video on LinkedIn best practices. So if you want to take 20 minutes and learn how to set up your profile, how to bring in the right people how to develop a strategy, and then how to use it proactively for marketing and business development. Just take 1520 minutes and watch that video, I think it would be. And I’m not the only one with the video right now. I mean, there’s tons of content out there about how to do things better just have to, you know, be, you know, clear about what you’re trying to accomplish. And when you type that into YouTube,
Colin Levy [21:27]
right? Absolutely. And I’ve seen your video and I agree with you email, it is very onpoint. And, and that is definitely I think some of that keep in mind with all social media platforms is you don’t have to go it alone. There’s plenty of resources out there on YouTube and elsewhere, that can help kind of inform your usage of each platform and kind of what type of strategy you want to take with respect to your own content creation efforts.
Steve Fretzin [21:51]
And what’s the so let’s take it a step further. One of the things that I think social media does, if it’s done with intention and purpose is it helped someone to develop their brand. And the story or the analogy that I’ve given now multiple times, and people are maybe sick of hearing it, but maybe not, is that on one side of a mountain, you’re climbing the business development side, right. So as a lawyer, developing strategic partners, and cross marketing and upselling, and networking and all these things that you take your time and your effort to do. The other side of the mountain is the marketing mouth, that’s newsletters and speaking and social media and all in all that type of stuff. And when you do them both at the same time and do them both consistently, they meet at the peak of that mountain. And that’s where a lot of good things happen. Okay, so in part of that is the social media using social media as a branding tool. So talk about how it works for personal branding, how you did it and used it, and then what you’d suggest for others.
Colin Levy [22:47]
So right, so I started out, as I alluded to candidates using social media to comment on other people’s posts, because at that time, I wasn’t confident enough to start creating my own content, but I was eager to learn from others. So that’s kind of how I first started my journey. And that’s, I think, a great kind of low barrier entry into using social media to build up your brand, is to start by just sharing your thoughts and what other people are saying. And then people kind of start to know kind of what you are and what you’re saying. And tag people as comments, you know, tag the person who posted in those comments when they see it. And they kind of start saying, Oh, hey, there’s fallen, he’s posting, you know, I saw his thought about legal tag, he seems to be posting a lot about legal tech, he seems to be the God and all that. So you know, that’s how you can sort of start off building your brand. Because really, I think personal branding on social media is it comes down to having others understand what it is that you, you’re known for, why they should go to you for whatever it is, you know, what do you want to be, you want to be the resource on legal tech, you want to be the resource on, you know, negotiation on contracting on mental health, whatever it is, you know, you want to find that area, and then just be consistent in terms of posting about it, on LinkedIn, and elsewhere on Twitter, or wherever. And so, you know, with respect to someone who’s just starting out building their, their brand, think of it less of a brand and more of just sort of the story of you and the story of what you want others to tell about you. And so you know, whatever it is whatever that passion is, you know, use that to inform your activity. And like I said, the best way is to start commenting on other people’s posts that have to do with that passion, that subject and you can find that subject by just searching for on LinkedIn using the hashtag with whatever subject that is, and then commenting on people’s posts and then use those posts in your comments to inspire you perhaps to start posting yourself as well. A new will have to write a whole lot you can just start with maybe just a sentence or two. And then if you want to write more, feel free But that’s really how I think it can start is by commenting on others and using those comments to inspire your own content. And after you see it posts that you think is interesting, you know, Poppy to a word, document, whatever to save it so that you can remember it, and use it to inspire future posts, because you don’t have to just stop think of something new all the time, you can use existing content you’ve created as a basis for new content.
Steve Fretzin [25:27]
Yeah, I mean, if you’re a lawyer, you know, and you do something specific, and you want other people to thank you first. And you’re, you have some relationships out there, that’s great. But you’re not staying in front of them, your name, your content, your information on a regular basis, you’re you’re missing some of the juice out of that squeeze. So I think it’s really important to even if you’d again, just posting once or twice a week, to just get your name out in front of your audience in front of your strategic partners, referral partners, your network, your clients, it all it all adds up. And if you do it long enough and consistently enough, and you have really good content, I think that’s something too, that maybe we’ll touch on is I’m not self promoting to sell my services on social media. I mean, almost never. It’s really Here’s an article I wrote, comparing lawyers, Business Development for lawyers to Seinfeld episodes, or to a recent fishing trip with my son, it was an article that was posted in the Chicago Daily law bulletin. Right? So, you know, yeah, if I’m hitting 250 episodes, yeah, I’m gonna promote that. But it’s really still content. Because if you go and listen to those episodes, you’re gonna get value. So it’s more value based. And that’s how I want to be thought up, right? So that’s my brand is, here’s a guy who gives away a lot of stuff. You can listen to it, watch it, read it, whatever, get a great value. And look, somebody might call me to work with me or not, but I have a greater chance of them thinking about me or thinking that I might be a good fit for them if I have all that out there versus if I’m a secret.
Colin Levy [27:04]
Yeah, absolutely. I think that points to a really important kind of lesson with with font suppression, which is, give more than you take, in other words, give a lot of value give a lot of insight. And it’s not, you know, it’s not about sewing you, it’s more about sewing idea, sewing concepts. And those ideas, perhaps are yours or inspired pay articles, what have you, but that’s really what you’re selling. And then that over time, then weeds people back to you and say, Hey, I have something I can use your help with? What have you. So it’s really a long term play. And that’s the other thing, I think that’s really important for people to understand about social media usage built in brands, it is a long term strategy is not going to immediately show you a return over a month or two months, it’s gonna take time, and you have to be patient, and be consistent. And that’s when you will start seeing results. I didn’t see a whole lot of, you know, immediate results from my work until perhaps a year, year and a half later. And I fully knew that that was what was going to be the case, I didn’t expect to put the result that happened. But I knew that I was going to if I was going to see anything I was going to see something later on as opposed to after just you know, a few weeks of doing it is ads, just how these how these platforms work is it’s building up to something it’s not just kind of posting something immediately getting, you know, a million opportunities knocking down your door.
Steve Fretzin [28:30]
Yeah, and so from a branding standpoint, we need to be consistent, but more but in addition to add them in and just as important, I should say, is, we need to be you know, use some creative juices, you know, post things that are that are demonstrating you’re not only authority on a subject, but also showing your authenticity. I think that’s a really important point that people want to get to know the written now if you’re a real jerk, then no be someone else. Don’t post what you really think is everybody’s gonna hate you. But most people are good. And because of that, you know, post some postings that are going to demonstrate your authenticity, because that’s another part of personal branding that really separates you from the pack. And they when they think of you, they can tell you’re real and that you’re someone that cares, and that someone you know, has a unique perspective on things.
Colin Levy [29:18]
Absolutely. I think authenticity cannot be overstated enough as important. That just simply means showing up as who you are. And ensuring that your personality and who you are it comes through and what you’re saying in your content. And really that comes down to not saying what you think others want to hear but saying what you want to say what it is that you want to say, what is your distinctive voice? Use that voice and let that be embedded through the content that you’re creating? Yeah, really good
Steve Fretzin [29:50]
stuff. And how can social media help someone grow in their job grow in their career? How does it change their future? And that goes back to our our opening quote about predicting the future, you create it? How can social media actually do that for somebody? Because I think that’s sort of what happened with you to some degree. Right? It’s just how prolific you’ve gotten in how it’s maybe changed the way you’re kind of work in your life.
Colin Levy [30:18]
Yeah, absolutely. It’s definitely opened up doors and create opportunities and continues to do so. And the way that has happened is, through, I think, understanding that, you know, people we know what they know. So if they don’t know anything about you, you kind of have to let other people know what it is that you want them to know about you. So, for example, if you’re looking for a new role, or you are looking to start a new business, or what have you, you don’t necessarily have to say outright, hey, I’m looking for a new opportunity, I’m looking for a new role. But you start talking about things that point to where it is you hope to go and why. And that will lead people to you and understand, Oh, hey, you know, this person was talking about this and how interested they are in it, maybe they might be interested in this, that or the other thing. So you kind of have to help people help you by giving them ways, and insight into how they can help you. And that comes through sharing kind of what you’re interested in, why you’re interested in and kind of what, what makes you happy what you’re passionate? Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [31:21]
And there’s also more direct ways. I mean, if you think about LinkedIn, as a business development tool as a job tool, I mean, there’s a reason why recruiters are paying off at six to $10,000 a year for their LinkedIn, because they they’re using it to identify inside connections, right? I’m connected to you. And there’s someone that wants to get to meet you, and they go through me, and I know you well enough to say, Yeah, I can make that introduction, and then you to connect, now they’re working for you or with you or with you know, whatever it is. So there’s so much more connectivity now through social media, and especially through LinkedIn, I think Facebook to that allows us to develop friendships, relationships that just never existed 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and now we have access to all that not only people but who can make a quality introduction. And now another technology that I’m in the beta and I’ve been helping to kind of promote is a thing called connect the dots. You heard of that? Colin? Connect the dots below it. Okay, I’ll invite you to it. It’s still in beta. So it’s that everybody that’s not open to the general public. But essentially, what it does is it’s an it’s an add on to LinkedIn where, right now, if you went through my LinkedIn, 12,000 contacts and you wanted to meet, you know, a few lawyers, there’s a good, you know, I’ve got 8000 that are lawyers. So how well do I know that person to make an inroad for you? Well, probably maybe not very well, okay, there may be a listener of the show, there’s someone I’ve never met, what connected dots does is actually goes through and doesn’t read your emails, but it looks at the interaction of emails with the people that are in your LinkedIn. And so it’ll say, Hey, I’m 80%, you know, connected to these lawyers, you know, now that I have a much better chance of making a good introduction for you, because you’re now understanding, and I’m understanding the connectivity that exists versus before where it’s kind of in the dark. So it’s really in there, they’re continuing to improve the way they do things. But that’s just, you know, shout out to my friends that connect the dots. I mean, it’s a really slick tool, they’re probably going to end up getting bought for, you know, billion dollars at some point. And, you know, if maybe I’ll get a point oh, 2%. There, remember that my kind words and whatever. But anyway, so I think there’s a lot of value to social media, I think people should be on there, if they’re, especially if they’re looking to build business, build a brand market themselves. And I think we want to pick the right platforms, I don’t think you need to be on all of them, you don’t have to be engaged in all of them. That’s really a personal decision based on get who you’re looking to meet. Wrapping things up a little bit. This will be like a one minute drill here, Colin on Twitter, because I you know, between Elon Musk and the trolls, I just I’m really, I’m not a huge Twitter guy. And I’m wondering if I’m missing out on something.
Colin Levy [34:02]
So Twitter is indeed kind of like the Wild Wild West, it’s a bit crazy, especially these days, however, I have been very consistent in my use of it and very deliberate in it in my use of it as well. And that’s really helped me kind of build a community on there that is helpful, and that is beneficial. And that really just started with me just being consistent about what I post. I don’t post anything political or really all that even controversial. I simply pose things that I’m thinking about writing more in depth on whether it’s on LinkedIn or some other platform, or I’m sharing other posts that other people have written or created related legal tack, and that’s literally all I do. And that’s all I’ve been doing on Twitter. And that has really helped me build a community on there and connect with others on in that area. And really, I think that’s how Twitter can best be used is by finding what that area is that you’re in Interested in, or that you’re seeking to learn more about or get into, because you know, because it’s good for your business or what have you. And it really start looking for posts on that subject, sharing those posts, and tweeting about it yourself. And that can kind of avoid a lot of the nastiness and a lot of kind of the incessant keyboard debates that take place on Twitter that Twitter, for better for worse is often more known for.
Steve Fretzin [35:25]
Yeah, I mean, the safest one of them all, from my perspective is just LinkedIn, just you know, for most lawyers that are in a business, you know, professional service, they’re in business, whether they’re in a big, firm or solo, doesn’t matter. It’s still you and you’re still the business. And I would say LinkedIn, from a marketing and from a branding, and from a business development perspective has all you know, all of the goodies that are going to help you get, you know, further along in your career and with business. The other ones are, you know, in my opinion, a little more optional. And again, you can make your own decision I’m just giving you, you know, everyone my take. So awesome, Colin, so let’s talk about your game changing books. And I’m saying books because you gave me two and they seem like almost the same, but I’m sure they’re very different AI for lawyers and on legal
Colin Levy [36:12]
- Absolutely. So AI for lawyers is more of a kind of case study type book where it shows different use cases for AI in the legal area. And it’s really very informative in that way, because it’s making AI real for people join actual use cases of it. And that’s why it’s been a really great book. And what I continue to turn to, on the go AI is sort of a more theoretical exploration of the relationship, evolving relationship between law and ai, ai, but it’s done sort of a down to earth way. So it’s not a super dense book. But it’s an accessible introduction, sort of understanding the relationship. And the two books actually work well together as sort of a way of understanding just the ongoing AI, and wall world and ecosystem that is evolving. And so, you know, I would suggest starting with all new AI to give you some context and then going to AI for warriors to kind of see that context in action. Now.
Steve Fretzin [37:10]
Well, I appreciate you sharing that if people want to get in touch with you to learn more about you, Colin or about Mel back, how do they reach you.
Colin Levy [37:16]
So if they’re interested in mobile, our website is www.haulback.io. If they want to get in touch with me, I’m on LinkedIn and on Twitter, my Twitter handle is C Levy, underscore law and LinkedIn under my name, so whoever wants to get in touch with me, I am happy to hear from anyone and everyone. Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [37:35]
Well, listen, man, as always a pleasure chatting with you, man, I appreciate you sharing your wisdom and then taking a deep dive on social media with me today. And I know, you know, for the people listening this is, you know, this is a big topic. I mean, we’re we’ve got a lot of mixed feelings about it. I don’t think I’m alone in that. So, you know, let’s keep it in the loop. You and I because I feel like there’s probably a lot more we can do together. But just thanks again, man. Appreciate it. Absolutely. It’s been a pleasure. Yeah. And thank you everybody for spending some time with Colin tonight today. Um, you know, there’s, you know, lobby covered, I get it. You know, again, you know, I would say just like anything in life, if you’re going to do something, don’t stall, go to YouTube, you know, watch some videos on LinkedIn and Facebook and try to pull you know things together to understand that if that’s not your jam, you can also delegate it you know, there are vas, and there’s assistance and there’s people that get it better than you and you can participate with them and let them do it for you and with you. And that’s another thought. So, you know, the goal here always to help you being that lawyer in being that lawyer, right someone who’s competent, organized into skilled Rainmaker. Take care everybody be safe be well, we’ll talk again soon.
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website fredson.com. For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes