In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Mitch Beinhaker discuss:
- Things lawyers are more challenged by than ever before.
- Using automation to run your life and practice more effectively.
- The changing landscape of employees needed in a law firm.
- Virtual collaboration and running a virtual office.
Key Takeaways:
- You want to run your practice in a way that makes it easy for clients and other attorneys to work with you.
- If nothing else, automate your calendar. You can save hours each week that can be used for other things and you make it easier for those you are meeting with.
- You will not lose business due to automation. If anything, you will gain business from it as it will increase your accessibility and will make it easier to work with you.
- There are ways to communicate and build culture without having your entire workforce in the office every single day.
“The people that are going to be resilient and are going to embrace the use of technology and automation will be better off because they will be able to run more efficient businesses and practices.” — Mitch Beinhaker
Connect with Mitch Beinhaker:
Website: https://beinhakerlaw.com/
Email: mitch@beinhakerlaw.com
Show: https://accidentalentrepreneur.podbean.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/beinhakerlaw/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/accidentalentrepreneur/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/mcbesq
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Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/beinhakerlaw/
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Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
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Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!
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Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
attorney, people, business, automation, lawyer, automate, clients, practice, mitch, helping, documents, podcast, zoom, remarkable, book, technology, pandemic, talk, work, email
SPEAKERS
Stephanie Vaughn Jones, Narrator, Jordan Ostroff, Steve Fretzin, Mitch Beinhaker
Mitch Beinhaker [00:00]
People that are going to be resilient and are going to embrace the use of technology and automation will be better off because they will be able to run more efficient businesses and practices.
Narrator [00:16]
You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer Coach Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.
Steve Fretzin [00:38]
Hey everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I am Steve Fretzin, as the announcer mentioned, and so happy that you’re with us today. We’re going to have some fun, we’re going to have some laughs we’re going to learn some stuff. And it’s all about helping you to be that lawyer someone who’s confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. I’ve got Mitch hanging out in the side in the in the sidelines. Is it sidelines, Mitch?
Mitch Beinhaker [00:58]
I don’t know. Yeah, I guess sidelines. Yeah,
Steve Fretzin [01:01]
you’re on the sidelines, I’m gonna bring you in,
Mitch Beinhaker [01:02]
I’m in the green room,
Steve Fretzin [01:03]
you’re in the green room sidelines, I’m gonna bring you into the game. And then you’re, then you’re in the game. That’s all work. Okay. I have to thank the sponsors love the sponsors. We’ve got legalese, helping me automate my marketing and make sure that I’m coming across like I’m some superstar marketer, because you think I’m doing all this stuff. And I’m not they are. They’re really helping me out. Content, newsletters, email marketing, you name it. Got money, Penny, you go to my website, you want to talk to a live human that isn’t me to get to me. That’s how you get through to money with your money, Penny. And I’d like to thank them. And of course, practice Panther, helping people with their case management automation, right. Might be a good segue to talk about where we’re going to go today, Mitch, but before we do that, we’ve got to talk about your quote of the show, which is Life is 10%. What happens to you and 90% how you react to it. That’s so true.
Mitch Beinhaker [01:56]
Sure, absolutely. Not. Well, I think that everything’s really bad. Most of its senior year today. Yeah, I call it happening. Yeah, it’s not really happening. It’s, you know, what did they say, this is what happened. And then this is the story around that you make up around what’s happening. It’s not happening anymore. So I think a lot of it is so I deal with things.
Steve Fretzin [02:16]
My wife is like that, like there’s something that happened and why and then all now we’re now we’re sexist. yourself, my friend. But but I’m just saying it’s an example, that with my wife, I’m not saying this is what all women at all. But she has constructed this entire situation that’s happened around a comment that somebody said to her 10 years ago, doesn’t have to be right. Yeah, yeah. And she’s still lamenting, I’m just like, What are you doing? Yes, you have?
Mitch Beinhaker [02:46]
Well, we can use a sample of your wife and my wife, we got 100%. So that’s pretty.
Steve Fretzin [02:50]
That’s, that’s how we figure it out. By the way, our wives are amazing. And I’m sure right, yeah, real minds, the battle
Mitch Beinhaker [02:58]
time what you do, right. But
Steve Fretzin [03:01]
life is a lot about how we react to things. And I think whether there’s a recession, I was talking about a recession, six to nine months ago, I don’t think it’s hit. But I think it’s still kind of sitting on the fence waiting for whatever is going to happen with a nuclear meltdown or Ukraine or right, you know, the price of gas or whatever living jump is killing cost of living, you know, you want to build a house or reduce your get your car fixed or anything. It’s insane what’s going on. So how we react to things is really what it’s all about. So, Mitch Biden hacker is the accidental entrepreneur, you and I had a great conversation prior to this recording. And I’d love for you to share your background. You know, your legal background, your personal background, leading into this call today.
Mitch Beinhaker [03:47]
Yeah, sure. I’ve been practicing a little over 30 years. In that time. I’ve done mostly a state and business planning. So I’m not a I’m not a litigator. I don’t go to court. I mean, you might find me deal with the courts in a probate matter, or, you know, maybe an eviction here and there for commercial clients, I do a fair amount of commercial real estate. But if if that probate matter blows up in the litigation, I’m not the guy who handles it. You know, if I have a client a business plan as a commercial issue, it goes to another colleague of mine, to handle the litigation. I don’t I can help him draft some of the stuff sometimes I do. But for the most part, I’m not the guy who goes into court, I don’t have a port town, I don’t run around with reports. You have to do less now. Still, I’m a transactional guy, I draft agreements, I form companies that help people sell their business, buy their business, draft their wills or trusts, tax planning and you know, fit it all together. That’s might sound boring to a lot of people, but that’s what that’s what I do. And I’ve done that for, you know, like I said, more than 30 years now, let’s fast. The accent entrepreneur is my podcast. I started a little bit more than three years ago, to really to interview you know, business owners and influencers and people that work in the small business space. Just startup founders things like that to share their knowledge, and hopefully help other people get better hold to their business, because I find that I mean, that’s what keeps me in business people are having trouble with with their business. So, yeah, that’s kind of the way the two of them fit together. Okay. And
Steve Fretzin [05:16]
I think that our initial chat was, to some degree about how you’ve been successful using automation and using technology. And what sort of changed in your kind of mind in the last 10 or 20 years where lawyers have maybe they’re more challenges today that automate, we’ll talk about fixes later. But like, what are the things that that lawyers are more challenged by today than maybe ever before?
Mitch Beinhaker [05:43]
Yeah, well, I think that lawyers in and of themselves are not the most technology, technologically savvy group around, I’ve learned a lot of this stuff just out of interest myself. But we don’t have anything you know, we’re, we have to get our CLA but none of it is on, you know, how do you manage your practice from the technologist and right, I saw over the years, as things slowly changed, and, you know, companies like practice, Panther, smoke ball, Clio, all these different companies started coming out and his practice management packages, that, you know, there’s still a lot of attorneys that have AOL email address, and have, you know, an are faxing things and are, you know, and have a website, that is what I say all the time, like, on a highway that nobody’s driving down. So they really don’t, you know, get that stuff. And I don’t think a lot of them think that there’s a lot of value that we work in local communities, we are stuck in the jurisdictions in which we’re admitted, which is a little bit different than any other profession. But I think that a lot of attorneys are really just missing out on the opportunities when it comes to practice management and promotion. And running your, your business. I, you know, I, I used to have a practice with more partners, and we were employing technology and stuff. And I can’t say it was just the older guys trying to get him to use technology. It was, it was the younger guys, too. I mean, we have such a, what’s the word? I want to say? Try it. And we have such a stiff way of doing business like this is the way you do it, you come out of law school practice, you do this, you do that. And I don’t think that it has to be that way. And I think that you want to run your practice, which is why I tried to do it. To make it easier for customers and clients to do business with you. Make it easy for them to interact easier to get a hold of you. Yeah, you know, an attorney up in a tower where you’re difficult. And that’s one of the, you know, besides their fees, I think the second complaint about attorneys is response time and your ability to get a hold of them. That’s like the number two complaint which shouldn’t be not nowadays with, you know, I look, there’s an attorney I’m dealing with on a transaction. He’s overseas till next week. It’s like I got a response back to my email in 14 seconds when I checked in and said, Hey, can we talk this week? It’s no more wait till next week. Now, he didn’t want to engage me, but he did tell me. So there’s no reason why it should go days for somebody not to get back to you. Right there. Just because they’re busy.
Steve Fretzin [08:04]
Right, right. Well, that’s in that just right. And that’s that’s hurting an attorney’s ability to be successful with their client to retain and maintain relationships and everything that goes with it. So right, how are you then using automation to run your practice your life more efficiently than before?
Mitch Beinhaker [08:22]
Yeah, so before the pandemic, so I went back out on my own 2019, summer 2019. So middle of 2019. Okay, so by the fall, I was trying to figure out, what am I going to do? Am I going to join the firm, I’m going to stay on my own, like the freedom of being on my own, how was I going to do that? What systems was I going to implement? So I don’t use a practice management system, because a lot of the things that you need on there, I don’t necessarily need like calendar management, all that stuff, I’m not going to port. So I haven’t found that I needed that as a solo, but I have taken a close look at those things. So I wanted to, you know, make things easier. So I could work wherever I am, right? And there’s a lot of people that are out there talking about virtual practice management and things like that. So as I as I developed through the end of 2019, I was looking at different systems, what am I going to do and how am I going to interact with clients? Well, once the pandemic hit, I mean, that gave me an advantage that didn’t have before it forced clients to want to and to be able to deal with you virtually. I have very few clients that come into the office anymore, maybe some of the older estate planning clients, but for the most part, I have business owners that I’ve never met or met them at the end of the transaction when they need to come in and sign documents but a lot of them we can eat sigh You know, I have some clients that have New Jersey clients but they may have a farm upstate I’m dealing with to I don’t think I’ve ever met them in person. I’ve met them on Zoom, but I’ve never really checked shaking their hand and met them and that changed a lot. So first of all, I automated my calendar has never done that before I go back and forth when he available Steve available on Tuesday, Wednesday when I discovered Calendly and there are the program comes out there. And that probably saved me three or four hours a week. Yeah. So not only
Steve Fretzin [10:04]
say I’m an I’m a new to, as you know, and I’ve been I’m saving, I would say closer to an hour a day. Yeah, because I was doing I mean, it’ll back and forth. It’s crazy how much time I was spending going back and forth with people. They’re not responding that I got to follow up. And then I got to check in and right. Oh, my God.
Mitch Beinhaker [10:20]
I mean, I’ve actually had people come back to me said, Well, can we do this date? No, I’m not available. Here’s the link to my calendar, pick a date. Well, can we do this date?
Steve Fretzin [10:29]
No, you’re like, the rules. I’m giving you a rule
Mitch Beinhaker [10:32]
Exactly. And you know what, that helps me. Because if you book on my calendar, you get added to my email list. And you start to receive information from me about the podcasts about the practice, different things like that. So it’s something I don’t have to do. In the old days, I would go to a networking event, for example, or I be introduced to a new client, and I have to add them manually to my list, which is fine. I keep a spreadsheet not uploaded over time, time and time again. But if it’s automated, by know that you book on my calendar, all those things happen. I’ve kind of automated reviews too. And I get business because people do a search for attorneys. And I come up because I have a lot of reviews on my Google and avo and different things like that. So that’s all been automated, too. I have a list. Many do I have to take your matter from my pipeline and drop it into closed? Send out for reviews that I have to do? I’ve been able to automate that. But you know, for the most part that all happens behind the scenes. So I use that to automate. I use a lot of templates in Google, that make it easier for me to do stuff. I schedule things out all the time. I’m constantly doing scheduled events. I don’t send if I answer an email on the weekend doesn’t go out till Monday. I schedule it forget about it goes out Monday. I don’t want people to think that I’m available. 10 o’clock on Saturday night. I don’t look at my email better.
Steve Fretzin [11:49]
Have You Ever Have you picked up a remarkable two yet? You know about that? Oh, yeah. Here’s my remarkable. Okay, so just so any any lines are remarkable, by the way. Okay. Anyone I talked to about automation. And they don’t have a remarkable to at this point. I question whether they’re really up with serious about I mean, yeah, this remarkable two is a game changer. I have zero right there. I’ve got a right here, man. Like, yeah, I don’t have all my notes do Hey,
Mitch Beinhaker [12:15]
I do have a pad here. But I use it. Yeah, it’s great. And you know what you you can email yourself the document, you can download it to your site, everything because I do everything in the cloud through Google. I used to use Office 365. But it’s, I had a remarkable one. And then the two came out. So for Father’s Day, my kids got me that mark that I think he can’t run a practice with, without something like that. And I think it’s the best. There are a couple of other choices. But I’ve tried the Mitel
Steve Fretzin [12:43]
Yeah, I did the I did the iPad, and it was so slick in meaning slippery that the pattern is slippery. It wasn’t my handwriting is already terrible. So I need something that feels like paper. And yes, everything’s recorded, put in folders, email yourself. And I think I’m probably only using 10 or 20% of his capabilities. Oh, phenomenal. And I’m loving it. I know there’s more. But I don’t need vert things like things like layering documents and stuff. I don’t need all that. But it’s it’s just wow, it’s remarkable.
Mitch Beinhaker [13:12]
Yeah. So here’s another product get the name of it be I think, like forget there’s a there are alternatives in the marketplace is one or two.
Steve Fretzin [13:24]
How am I gonna get them as a sponsor if we talk about other remarkable to the only way to go
Mitch Beinhaker [13:29]
is remarkable to a sponsor of yours now. On the podcast,
Steve Fretzin [13:34]
honestly, I was goofing with another podcaster. The other day. She also uses remarkable to and talks about on her show all the time. And I go this these remarkable two people don’t realize that they could be sponsors on all these different shows and get all this I
Mitch Beinhaker [13:48]
think it’s American made. I think it’s is it American? I have no idea. It might be from like Thailand or something. Okay, well, yeah, they might have made there. But yeah, I got Yeah, well, after I left, I just couldn’t do it.
Steve Fretzin [14:02]
So let me ask you this, then. So some ways that the automation and the technology has helped you to be more accessible to prospective clients, clients, etc. Maybe even help you build some relationship? What Yes,
Mitch Beinhaker [14:16]
well, that’s a good question. Okay. Yeah, because when I started out back on my own, I have a lot of, you know, I do get referred, you know, couples just starting out, somebody’s starting a new business. And they really don’t need a lot, but they just need a company set up basic operating agreements, things like that. They need a lease drawn up, whatever. And, sure, I’m happy to do it. But you know, I do have minimum fees that I charge and so forth. So I set out on the on the journey because I and I’ll say this, hopefully, they’re not your sponsor. I hate LegalZoom Rocket Lawyer Adel, those services, because I think they give people the impression that they can be their own lawyer. And one of the biggest problems that we have in the commercial litigation world and commercial business world What is that? All these misunderstandings, and I didn’t say you said this and, and I see contracts all the time that are so you know, lacking in the terms and that is that you need in a contract. So, if you think you go write a contract, and I’ve done hundreds and maybe 1000s of them over 30 years, good luck, right, you’re doing for one time, so not a big fan of the services. So what I did was I built a section of the website that allows somebody to come in, and for half the price that I charge, so you may not be getting a will for as cheap as you do on labels. But I’m yet to see one that’s accurate anyway. But for instead of I charge 2500, and up for a wills package, Living Will healthcare directive, and power of attorney, husband and wife, right. So for like half of that, I don’t remember exactly. But about half of that. You can go on my website, you go on your prepaid, you get a link to a Google form, you fill out the information, he merges it with my documents, I look at them, clean them up, send them to you with signing instructions. Now the reason you want to come in and sign there’s a fee for that, too. But so it’s it’s more than LegalZoom banana, an attorney review it and you got your documents, three to four days, you know, because I don’t have to meet with you and go in, you put it in, you put all the information in, and you find that there’s a lot of people that don’t want to do that. They’re like, Listen, I don’t really understand this, I need an attorney to do it. So they want to hire me, but I want it to make it accessible. I didn’t want somebody know, I have had a few people go oh, you know, whatever, $1,200. That’s too much. I mean, you know, you’re protecting your family. I don’t know if it’s too much. But I said I don’t know what to tell you go to Legal Zoom. But I wanted to make that more accessible and easier to do. Am I continue to build that out? Service System?
Steve Fretzin [16:38]
Is that a big part of the future of legal? Because obviously, I’ve had a number of well, not obviously, but I’ve had a number of lawyers that, you know, are really into the you know, what’s a calling, you know, just like pricing, you know, like one price or like, whether it’s at price fees, alternative or alternative billing? Sorry, I have my tongue tied a little bit. But you know what I’m talking about, like they’ve got these packages that make it legal services more affordable. And it’s not by the hour in the traditional sense.
Mitch Beinhaker [17:06]
Yeah, yeah, I try to avoid hourly billing. I mean, I do it. Like if I’m doing a business transaction, forget it, I can’t play it for you. But I do sometimes flat fee, probate of definitely flat fee document work, you know, formations and things like that. There’s also so there’s so there’s a big move in the industry to do that. There’s definitely a move for people to provide like templates and stuff like that. You can’t do that in New Jersey, ironically. But I have a friend who’s got a place called the contract shop or somebody I know through networking, she does. And she has an E commerce site where you can like download templates for if you’re a photographer or your wedding planner, something like that. So she has this service camera to do it in New Jersey, but you can do what I do, which is to prepare the actual documents for people charged. And also, if you read about something a limited scope retainers, so what they’re doing is in New Jersey has a white paper on it. So a lot of the states are doing it. They’re allowing attorneys to limit the scope of their retainer. So let’s say you’re suing somebody who’s in litigation, right? We all we both know, litigation can be expensive. So if you’re suing somebody for three to $5,000, it can easily cost you more than that legal fees to sue them. So you, right, so you know, right. But under a limited scope retainer, you go to an attorney, and maybe the attorney for I don’t know, 1500 bucks, prepares the documents for you. And you file them, or they make one appearance and they make it clear to the judge. Listen, I was hired on a limited scope retainer, here’s a copy of my retainer, and my job is done here. They’re taking over. So there’s ways to kind of do a hybrid and there’s a movement in the legal profession to support those types of retainers, right.
Steve Fretzin [18:55]
So as a listener of this podcast, I hope you’ve learned some valuable lessons when it comes to not just managing your firm but helping you thrive. Practice Panther, the all in one legal practice management software is designed to help you do just that. It has powerful reporting that gives you real time feedback on the health of your firm and its finances automated workflows that free up your schedule while keeping your cases on track, and tons of native feature like E signature and two way texting that keeps your clients happy and informed. With practice Panther you don’t have to do it all by yourself. Get a free demo with practice panther.com/v That lawyer to receive 10% off your first year.
Jordan Ostroff [19:32]
legalese marketing is not your traditional marketing vendor. Instead, we’re a true fractional cmo that helps you save time and spend your money the right way to build a practice of your dreams. We help through the entire process from customizing your intake system to driving leads, and even getting more reviews afterwards. Schedule your free call at legalese marketing.com.
Steve Fretzin [19:54]
Hey Steph, tell everyone what Moneypenny does for law firms where
Stephanie Vaughn Jones [19:59]
the call handling Unlike to experts, and Moneypenny receptionist can ensure that your calls are directed to the right person seamlessly saving you time and money. Steve, did you know that 69% of people don’t like to leave a voicemail?
Steve Fretzin [20:12]
I did not know that. That’s a lot of business going away right there. Let’s cut to the chase, what are you prepared to do for my listeners?
Stephanie Vaughn Jones [20:18]
We’re offering an exclusive two week free trial. If you’re interested in hearing more, you can call me directly on 470-534-8846. I mentioned that you’ve heard this add on Steve’s podcast.
Steve Fretzin [20:32]
Very cool. Thanks. I also like the automation of contract contracts being sent and signed and arrangements with with payments, ACH and credit cards. Like I’m using law Maddix right now even as a non lawyer to automate my scheduling, automate my pipeline, automate my newsletters, and also my, you know, how I how I, you know, set terms for clients, and I’m not taking in checks. I’m not having to go back to people to look for things like it’s all done. My AR is like nothing. Yeah. And it’s all from this automation, that’s that’s completely taken it off my plate, which is the best.
Mitch Beinhaker [21:16]
I mean, I don’t really want to, you know, put people out of business. But you know, when I find a firm they have, you know, more employees than they have attorneys. There’s something wrong with how they’re managing firm. They’re just doing an old school. Yeah, you know, you don’t need a secretary to answer your phones. I mean, nobody, nobody cares if they call up. And they leave a message on my voicemail at work, which by the way, does not ring through it always goes to voicemail and I have a cell phone my clients, I say call myself, I’m more than welcome to do it. And I’ve never had that I don’t even use and I could I could use like Ruby receptionist or
Steve Fretzin [21:51]
not Ruby, you mean what was the one use not each penny money? Penny,
Mitch Beinhaker [21:55]
right, I’m gonna I’m gonna look at right after I get off. You can do automation, you can do a lot of that stuff, virtual assistants, things like that. I don’t even need that. Now. If you want someone to answer your phone, use money. Penny.
Steve Fretzin [22:07]
Yeah, money, Penny, they’ll answer the phones. They don’t
Mitch Beinhaker [22:10]
have to have a full time secretary. Do it. Now if you need a paralegal, I understand if you need someone to manage your calendar for the court. But even those kind of sharing will do that stuff where you don’t need to have the kind of people that you needed before, to do all this kind of research. And just just to waste I’m sorry, but is
Steve Fretzin [22:27]
Yeah. And what about just one more point is like the one that drives me nuts in we do this with a TNT or any of the big companies banks is that there’s the tree, the phone tree, right? So press one for this too. for that. I don’t even want either one or two, I wanted like a four and then four doesn’t exist, then you hit zero that does nothing. Like, what am I doing here? Like this is not the way things should be?
Mitch Beinhaker [22:51]
Right? Well, I think that’s what people are afraid of. Right? They think a lot of they equate automation to that. Yeah, it’s impersonal, and people aren’t gonna go away. I’ve never really lost any business because of automation, I might have lost business because somebody called me about a transaction. And I didn’t get back them literally within two hours. And they hired another lawyer, right? Maybe a little too impatient for me. But you know, I’ve never really lost I’ve gotten business because of automation, my accessibility, my ability to turn things around. And like you said, I’m just scratching the surface. You know, the things that I’m doing from no nation states.
Steve Fretzin [23:25]
So let me ask you this just kind of as a follow through on our conversation, are there things that that you’re finding with automation, that’s, that’s helping you differentiate yourself from the other estate planners from the other transactional attorneys? Because you are sort of like a high functioning, automating attorney?
Mitch Beinhaker [23:45]
I’m not sure. I don’t know if I can give you an honest answer and say yes, about that. I think that’s the case. Okay. I know that I hold myself out that way, if you look on my website, talks about, you know, automated digital technology drift, and I don’t think that many lawyers are leading that way. But I’m not sure perception wise, if they, if I get more business, because of the automation I do in the marketing than I do in the podcast, and the Google reviews and things like that. I think people come to me, I think they’re more than happy to work with me from an automation standpoint, they like that. But I don’t know, at this point, if it’s, if it’s that much of an advantage over you know, I mean, people don’t have a bad experience with me. I’m sure they deal with other lawyers, and it’s frustrating, and they gotta go back and see the lawyer or whatever. Maybe that’ll give me an edge. At some point. I think people are kind of learning, but it’s getting the point where they expect you to be available on Zoom, they expect you to answer your phone, they expect you to respond experts, messages, you know,
Steve Fretzin [24:40]
but if it’s not, you know, the differentiator may not be just like how the clients perceive you or their overall satisfaction that might be part of the differentiator, but maybe it’s more about a differentiator for you as it relates to your marketing to being a podcast or to you know, the technology that you’re using to separate yourself From a standpoint of how efficient you’re becoming,
Mitch Beinhaker [25:02]
yeah, I agree with that. I mean, I think there’s not a lot of perception in terms of attorney skills at the basic level, you know, maybe, you know, if you’re going to the top estate planning attorney in the world, and he charges $7 and Skadden, Arps sure he’s got a higher level of expertise than me. And if you’re part of a multibillion dollar family office, you probably need his skills. But in terms of me, and all the colleagues I know that are local, I can’t say that they’re better or worse than in terms of skill wise, but in terms of my use of marketing, and keeping myself top of mind and staying in touch with people and offering my services in an easy to use way. I think that differentiates me, I think it definitely gives me a leg up gets me in the door quicker. I think they might choose me sooner than they choose someone else. There’s really no other reason choose an attorney over one. LSU said go to Mitch, he’d said no, Mitch is the guy. Okay.
Steve Fretzin [25:57]
All right. So like crystal ball moment? Where do you see things in five or 10 years? Like, where do you see, all this big rush of technology that’s happening in this legal space had been, I think, a fairly slow moving train. And now we’re on like, the speed rail, but five years, 10 years, what do you think’s going to change in in that based on technology, automation, things that are happening?
Mitch Beinhaker [26:21]
Fast? I don’t think it’s going to change fast. I think the world is going to change fast. I think the legal profession.
Steve Fretzin [26:29]
Still, we’re still on the choo choo.
Mitch Beinhaker [26:31]
I do. I think that I think that the schools aren’t promoting that. I think that the bigger law firms are still doing business, the old way. corporations, government, things like that. I think a lot of the local guys, if you look at like, you know, the different studies that we’ve done, the annual attorney surveys and stuff, there’s like one and a half million attorneys practicing active in the United States. I don’t know how active but they’re active. Right? Out of that group, at least 80% of them are either solo practitioners, or in a small firm, a couple of guys probably sharing space together. It’s, you know, corporate law, big law, government is a very small percentage of the population. But I until the next generation steps up. And you know, we’re talking like to the young guys, maybe in the next 10 to 15 years is not that’s the point where the older guys phase out where you’re going to start to see because I don’t see, I don’t see any the older returns and I’m 55. So let’s say 60. And up. None of them are adopting tech. Yeah, they’re using email reluctantly, that you know, they’re doing things do I even have conversations that now I didn’t disagree with them, so I want to get in a fight with them. But I’ve had disagreements with lawyers, where we’re talking about the pandemic, right? Oh, it’s become so efficient. Now. You can work from home, we get documents done, you jump on Zoom, you handle it. And and I and I have colleagues of mine who are older than me, I’ve never had this conversation with a younger person, where they say, you know, a lot to be said, though, about, you know, being in the office and you walk by my office and you go, Hey, Bob, what do you think of this thing? That is the most inefficient way of running your business or practicing law that I’ve ever heard of? Nobody benefits from that. Except the attorneys who get the bill twice on a file. I guess I have no idea. So I don’t want people wandering in my office and saying to me, Hey, Mitch, can I pick your brain for a minute? I’m like, yeah, here’s the link to my calendar, schedule a half an hour, when I’m available. I’m thinking about other things, right? And so even the older guys are getting back to the office, they’re like, No, gotta get back to the office. It’s a collaborative business. I’m not disagreeing with that. It is a collaborative business, right? You’re always better off with one or two legal minds three, four legal minds that you’re with one. So I run things by colleagues too, but it’s not an efficient way to do things. You don’t need to be next to each other to shit. I got colleagues of mine have fractional CFOs other attorneys accountants call me all the time we have conversations. So you know, I’m sitting here I’m always here, but they know how to find me. We could jump on Zoom and have a conversation together. I don’t see these guys unless we want to grab lunch everyone’s so it’s just not, I still see that in the older guard. Gonna be a while until I’d become the older guard and guys, the younger than me become the older guard but the world changes in technology. But
Steve Fretzin [29:19]
what I think ultimately might hurt the you know, the year one to year five attorneys that need the mentorship that need the camaraderie and it’s like having a sales team and they’re never together in a room or they’re never taught
Mitch Beinhaker [29:34]
that I agree with my son rice graduated college and names that accompany and he’s got to go in four days a week, but he was honest with me and said, Dad, you know, when I go in, there’s like three people in the office. Like most of the people in the office are not in the training program, or virtual. Yeah. So there’s a lot to be said for that. I agree. You got to culture, different cultures. Definitely. You want to develop attorneys. They’re not going to start at a law school on zoom at home. It’s the older guys they’re going to do that. But you know, between you and me, I don’t think they’re going back five days a week. So no may have a good a younger people come in Mondays and Fridays. They learn to work during the week with their, with their mentors wherever they’re working on Zoom. And you know, and then they’re in the office in the build relationships like that, but they’re not going back full time. Yeah, just not an efficient way of doing business live in the world.
Steve Fretzin [30:21]
Well, I think he can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube. I agree. So we’re just going to continue to evolve. And I think goes back to our quote of the show, it’s 10% of what happens to us and 90% how we deal with it. And right now everybody’s dealing with different challenges. And also great success from these changes in technology, like zoom for me so relining
Mitch Beinhaker [30:42]
Could you imagine if we didn’t have zoom during the pandemic world, we wouldn’t have been able to never be couldn’t connect
Steve Fretzin [30:48]
with 50 people on it. No, no, no, that that would be bad. Bad. But I mean, wow, has zoom. I mean, look, people are getting zoom. They’re getting like over zoom, or whatever. It’s called the Zoom fatigue. Thank you. I’m not meaning I’m, yes, I get exhausted from looking at a screen all day. But I was doing that anyway. Right. I mean, that was my life anyway. But the interaction seeing you, Mitch, and look, I can see you, you can see me, we can communicate, and I don’t need to be in a room slapping coffee with you to, you know, to say that we had a great conversation or that we’re we’re talking shop together. It’s right. It’s all here. And I’m so much more national, international. And it’s so frickin efficient, man. I’m just,
Mitch Beinhaker [31:30]
I mean, I couldn’t do three podcast episodes on a Friday for sometimes now, especially because people are coming to my office. And now. It’s just a much better way of operating. And you’re right, we were connecting. We’ve been on calls before. Look, if I have some local guys, I haven’t seen him in a while we go we grab a beer, we have dinner, we meet a bunch of us go to some networking events. But for the most part, it used to be where you’re on the road. I used to do so much networking, that was like squeezing the business. Because it you know, you if you couldn’t go to like more than three meetings a day, you’re on the road. Now it was three to four meetings was the cover? Yeah. And they don’t need to recover the next day. Yeah, you know, and you don’t have to do that anymore. So I think it’s a good time. I think that the people that are going to be resilient and are going to embrace the use of technology and automation will be better off because they will be able to run more efficient businesses and practices and be what the clients and by the way, the older people are going away and the younger people are moving up. So they’re going to be the ones that want to deal with you this way, who’s going to want to go with their baby in a stroller in their wife or husband do an attorney’s office to do their wills when you can just deal with it this way. And then they come for one signing me eventually. That’ll be remote too. But you can’t do that in New Jersey yet. Yeah, it’s getting there. Yeah, so
Steve Fretzin [32:46]
let’s talk about kind of wrapping things up with Game Changing book you the referral of a lifetime that’s been around for a long time. Why is that your your game changing book?
Mitch Beinhaker [32:56]
I love I mean, I have a lot of books that I like, but I’m I love the referral. So about 15 years ago, maybe more. I can’t to this day, remember who preferred it to me. Could be a handful of people that I guess, but it opened my eyes to. And I like books that are parables like that. But it opened my eyes to the simple concept of putting a system in place that keeps you top of mind. Because at the end of the day, when it comes to marketing for the local person, not for Coke and Pepsi and IBM and all these Microsoft, right? We build our personal brand, but it’s a little bit different. You just want to think and get people to think of you more than they think of other people they got plenty time think of themselves they’re too busy all that everything. But when something comes up, and there’s a legal issue or an opportunity to something you want to you want them to say oh yeah, I just heard from Mitch yesterday and that the whole story made so much sense to me now it’s been obviously updated with emails in those days we were sending letters and you know doing it manually. But yeah, I tell young people that if you’re starting a practice or you’re in sales or you’re getting going get that book yeah you know I also love Mike McCalla wits his books I love Bob Burns books and all that kind of stuff but read referral of a lifetime. It’s a it’s a great it’s a great great book in it and you know, what is it goes through the test of time? Yeah, survives the test
Steve Fretzin [34:23]
survives the test of time. And yeah, I mean, anything like that, that’s going to help people figure out and I wrote a book on networking, too called the attorneys networking handbook. And it’s, it’s so critical to have a system or a process or both whatever to maneuver through networking, because it can for many attorneys be just a huge time suck. And if it isn’t done right, you’re just going to find yourself in unlimited number of zoom meetings or coffee meetings and all this stuff that don’t really lead anywhere.
Mitch Beinhaker [34:52]
Oh, yeah, no, because just connecting with people isn’t enough. You want to stay in touch with them right in touch with them as them seeing your name and an ease They’ll not even opening it all the time. That’s fine. But you know, when’s the last time you heard from Mitch? I just heard from Friday. There’s a podcast episode that came out. And I had fallen off that wagon. I won’t blame that, right. It’s funny. I had a client call me a business client. He says, you know, we’re getting along. My wife’s pregnant is that we need you to refer us to an estate planning attorney. And I was like, and he goes, No, why I go, I am an estate planning attorney. Because you are. Now that was my fault. Not his fault. Yeah. So I’ve rebuilt our whole system. We had fallen off stained him. We were so busy, like you said, new business coming in the door that rebuilt it never dropped that since then. I always remember that story. And he’s a good client still is. And I did handle it. There you go.
Steve Fretzin [35:42]
Mitch, awesome, man. And people want to get in touch with you or they want to check out your podcast. What are the digits?
Mitch Beinhaker [35:48]
So buying hacker law.com? Is the website niche of buying hacker law? by nicola.com? Is my email is it again? Well, we find me on LinkedIn as well. podcast has a page on LinkedIn and Facebook. There is no website right now for the podcast, but it’s a page on my branded site, which has been rebuilt anyway. Just search on any of the directories for the accidental entrepreneur. You might get more than one but you’ll at least get mine on his books out there podcast. But I’ve been doing this but we have about 250 Okay, again,
Steve Fretzin [36:21]
I’m catching up with you. I’ve got about 215 Doing two are you doing one a week?
Mitch Beinhaker [36:27]
I’m doing hosting them or recording them? No posting. But uh, yeah, put out one every Friday. One every Friday. Okay, yeah, I’m gonna catch every record like three. Yeah, I just edited the 236. And I have another. Okay. And are 15 in Canada. Okay. Oh, that’s
Steve Fretzin [36:45]
nice. Well, that’s why one of the reasons I moved to two week is I was like, Hey, nice to interview you. You’ll be you know, this is September, you’ll be out in you know, January,
Mitch Beinhaker [36:54]
right, right now mid November. Right. Right. During during the pandemic, when I had no clients that weren’t doing anything. I was I was releasing so many episodes. I was interviewing so many people. Yeah, I was twice a week and you were still waiting. 90.
Steve Fretzin [37:06]
Oh, okay. Wow. Yeah. That’s crazy. Crazy. Yeah. Okay, well, good for you, man. This is great stuff. And I appreciate you coming on the show, sharing your wisdom talking to my attorney audience about your story and, you know, your experiences with automation technology. I think it’s really helpful.
Mitch Beinhaker [37:21]
Mo is available then. But he wants to, you know, pick my brain. Okay. I always love to help calm. It’s
Steve Fretzin [37:27]
very cool. Very cool. And we’ll have all your digits in the show notes. And hey, everybody, thank you for spending some time with Mitch and I today. Hopefully you got a couple of good takeaways, some good pieces of wisdom that you can use and think about just a couple off the top, you know, is just making sure that you’re not spinning your wheels wasting time on things that can be automated, you know, that could be you know, employees that you don’t need or it could be things like having a remarkable tool to just keep track of your notes and make sure that you’re you know, staying organized with stuff. But whatever it is, it’s all about helping you be that lawyer somebody who’s confident organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Thank you, Mitch, we’ll talk again soon.
Mitch Beinhaker [38:01]
Thank you. Yeah,
Steve Fretzin [38:02]
thank you, everybody. We’ll talk again soon be safe be well.
Narrator [38:10]
Thanks for listening to be that lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website fretzin.com. For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes