Dan Callahan: Going for Gold AND Silver

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Dan Callahan discuss:

  • Running a business, not just practicing law.
  • Starting a PI law firm and the changing industry.
  • Preparation without delays in litigation and marketing.
  • Outside the box thinking.
  • Additional work around existing clients and relationships.

Key Takeaways:

  • There is always going to be growing pains, no matter how you do it – you just have to do it.
  • Your name has to come to mind. Get your name out there however you can – writing, speaking, press conferences, press releases, etc.
  • Lawyers spend a lot of time marketing to get a new client, and not enough time to secure the relationship with an existing client – you really need to communicate often and thoroughly with your existing clients about the status of their matters, because they then will refer you to their friends and colleagues.
  • Have referral fee agreements with other attorneys that you trust who practice areas of law that you don’t specialize in.

“You can’t hide under a rock. You got to let people know where you are.” —  Dan Callahan

Connect with Dan Callahan:  

Website: https://callahanconsulting.com/

Website: https://www.callahan-law.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/callahandaniel/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dancallahanconsulting/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dancallahanconsulting/

Thank you to our Sponsors!

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Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: The Ambitious Attorney: Your Guide to Doubling or Even Tripling Your Book of Business and more!

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Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.




lawyer, attorneys, people, business, verdict, client, big, case, trial, dan, callahan, firm, building, practice, jury, steve, successful law practice, preparing, orange county, good


Stephanie Vaughn Jones, Narrator, Dan Callahan, Steve Fretzin, Jordan Ostroff


Dan Callahan  [00:00]

So there’s silver right there you go for the gold, but don’t forget the silver.


Narrator  [00:08]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer, coach, Steve Fretzin will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time, greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.


Steve Fretzin  [00:30]

Hey, everybody, welcome to be that lawyer. I am Steve Fretzin Your host and I’m so happy that you’re with me today. You know, I’m not joking around when I say Bring on the best guests. Other people can say that, but I really I really believe it. So you’re gonna be hearing from Dan in a minute. And he’s amazing. Just a quick Hey, Dan, how you doing?


Dan Callahan  [00:47]

Pretty good, Steve. Thanks. So good, terrible.


Steve Fretzin  [00:51]

Oh, terrible. I just got a $2,200 Plumbing bill for them to basically unclog a drain so I’m trying to live with that right now and it’s cutting into me but you know, we move on right we move past these things right.


Dan Callahan  [01:04]

There you go. Yeah, choice.


Steve Fretzin  [01:05]

That’s why we make the big bucks right there. Yeah,


Dan Callahan  [01:07]



Steve Fretzin  [01:08]

Okay. Hey, before I get into Dan and Dan’s world this want to thank our sponsors we’ve got legalese on the marketing side, we’ve got money penny on the on the virtual reception. And of course, we’ve got practice Panther with the database management practice management system. So awesome, awesome sponsors. Dan is waiting in the wings. I’m gonna mention Dan, your quote of the show, and then I’m going to get into the weeds with you today is a Teddy Roosevelt. It’s not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds, but have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who’s actually in the arena whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood who strives wasn’t Bailey valiantly, valiantly Oh, my God, your spelling is atrocious. See, I just blamed it on you.


Dan Callahan  [01:57]

I noticed that Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [02:00]

Anyway, that’s a Teddy Roosevelt. So why did you submit that quote, and welcome to the show, man.


Dan Callahan  [02:05]

Thank you. Nice to be here. One of my secretaries gave me that quote, framed. And it’s it stands out for the the individual who’s in the battle who tries and maybe you’ll win a lot of times, you might lose once or twice. But that’s the man that deserves the credit for taking the chance as opposed to the critic who’s afraid to take a chance. They’re just criticizes for the background. Right?


Steve Fretzin  [02:29]

Yeah, the critic who never did it, but likes to talk about other people. Right, right. That’s


Dan Callahan  [02:34]

a Teddy Roosevelt quote.


Steve Fretzin  [02:35]

It’s beautiful, beautiful. Well, welcome to the show. Dan Callahan is the founder of Callahan and Blaine. He’s also the CEO of Callahan consulting LLC. And you’ve got just an unbelievable record of killing it in court and building a great very successful law practice. So do my audience a salad. Let’s let’s get your Reader’s Digest of your background.


Dan Callahan  [02:58]

All right, well, I went to UC Davis, I graduated from law school there. I started with a big law firm in Hawaii for a couple years just learning the ropes of litigation. Then a big law firm in Newport Beach for a couple years before I opened up my own practice. On St. Patrick’s Day in 1984. I had a business practice business litigation, construction banking, and I kept doing that, but I really, I hit my first ball out of the park was 57 million for insurance, bad faith against farmers. And that set nationwide precedent getting insurance coverage under a general liability policy for patent infringement. I went around the nation telling people how to do it. They’d wake up in the morning, they don’t know how to do it, but that son of a bitch does in the cases all throughout the US. But that was more of a summary judgment practice. I wanted more of a trial focus. So I went in tried cases I was recruited to try a case ad for another really good lawyer had a mistrial. I came in on 17 days notice, try the case to a jury had a unanimous jury verdict. And that was my first jury trial. After that I’ve had subsequent ones I had one for it was a $2 million breach of contract case. And then seven weeks into a three month trial. I amended the complaint to conform to proof because I’d already elicited the evidence I needed. I added two more causes of action. The jury came back and they gave me the 2 million on the breach contract 300,000 on a fraud with a million and a half and periods and the last two cause of action. The jury gave me $180 million in punitive damages on the third cause and $50 million on the fourth cause for a total of 934. That’s the largest jury verdict in Orange County history. By far. I’ve moved into Pei prep Just and I settled one case, and I was told by whichever entity that was a records, these settlements and judgments that I had the highest personal injury settlement in the history of the United States. And that was $50 million. And when they told me that, they also told me oh, by the way, that one you have for 28 million, that’s third highest. Yeah. I don’t know where the rank today because yeah, 1007. Okay, pretty power up there.


Steve Fretzin  [05:30]

So I was going to ask you how you became successful, but I think I just heard it when it’s a big cases. So let me ask you that we’re gonna get to more of the success in a minute, I want to I want to hear about the negative, the challenges, the frustrations, what happened along this journey of winning these cases, and building up the now you know, very successful PR firm that you run, what are some of the things that that really sidetracked you were that really, you know, were difficult for you along


Dan Callahan  [05:57]

the way? Well, I didn’t really have a mentor when I went out and open up my own office. I had previous a debate firm on how to present facts in court, but not really, how do you run a business? So I took a number of CTE courses. And I learned really, by myself how to do it. So but then I still just practiced business litigation, construction, banking, all hourly work. Then one of my attorneys wanted me to represent a relative of his on a personal injury case. And I said, Well, you know, I don’t really do PII. But he persuaded me to do it. We settled for 3 million bucks, either, huh? There we go. Good. Okay. I had a white hat on I was doing something good. Yeah. transitioned in. This is where the problem comes in. I was going to transition into PII, well, one, not knowing a good PII case, or a bad cat PII case or how to vet them, I brought in just a bunch turns out, you really have to do more work on the front end to make sure your client is being honest with you. All the details, right? So also, if you just transition into pi, you’re probably not going to get paid for a year or two, most of the cases once you’ve filed it, so where is the money coming from? So I maintained my business litigation, banking, real estate construction cases. And I then just brought in alongside it, the PII cases. So maybe the hourly work, kept the doors open. Okay. Yeah, we’re brought into big receipts. So So here’s the lesson, then, that you should really have either a big bank role to help you with starting the pie and getting the pie going, because of that gap, or just having other other legal offerings


Steve Fretzin  [07:48]

while you’re doing the pie to make sure it’s balanced out.


Dan Callahan  [07:52]

Yeah, most people don’t do it the way I do it, however, I recommend the way I do it, okay, is to have the hourly work, especially if you’ve, you’re used to doing hourly work, if you’re used to doing timesheets, if you come from a big firm, where that’s required, then you have that which will keep the doors open, and then the big pops will come in on the personal injury cases. Yeah. Okay.


Steve Fretzin  [08:16]

And then how about like building your because as you get more successful as a, as a, you know, running this, this, you know, multi purpose shop? Um, was it difficult to like, find the right people to hire and bring in build a team where there’s some growing pains in that.


Dan Callahan  [08:32]

There’s always growing pains no matter what you do? Yeah. You just have to do it. Right. Yeah. Like Teddy Roosevelt’s quote. You just got to get in there and do it. You know, you


Steve Fretzin  [08:42]

can’t you can’t be a snowflake, you got to you got to have some thick skin. And you got to toughen up and kind of bear through the tough times. And


Dan Callahan  [08:49]

right. You do. And you really have to work. I mean, this is not a game here. You just really got to be all in. So I was all in 24/7. Yeah, if I was out somewhere, I’m always thinking about business referrals. If I made a CB course, I’ve made a couple of people buy the coffee, pass out business cards, I use of always, if I’m at a party, people ask me, what do you do I tell them what I do. And they kind of put themselves into the shoes of the client, and they wish they could have been that client. And then you get referrals. You know, you asked earlier, how did I really generate the business? Well, when I went out on my own, I would go into all the CTB courses, to meet people. But I also saw there’s a new magazine came out. So the Orange County Business Journal, so I contacted them. I wrote a weekly article for them. So there’s my name Dan Callahan every week, so people are getting exposed to my name. And then if I do win a case, I do a press release. It’s out there. You know, you can’t hide under a rock. You got to let people know where you are. Yeah. And the best way to win is to be prepared. So the One thing my life is all about is preparation. You know, if you’re not preparing, then you’re preparing to fail. Right?


Steve Fretzin  [10:08]

So So what are some things that you would that you prepare for to be successful in business to be successful as a lawyer,


Dan Callahan  [10:15]

by example, I can think of anything that may help me, I noted down, and I tried to do everything in preparation for a trial. So what I do by example, is when I take over a file, I usually a junior associate has worked it up for him and gives me the depositions I should read before going to trial. And I read those depots, I dictate memos of trial thoughts, so I can’t lose them. And they go into a finder. I also dictate trial assignments to other people and get me this, get me there. And then I will wind up preparing after reading on the Depo. As I prepare my own examinations and cross examinations, I link those exams to the documents, I have referred over several times, every witness that I’m going to be calling, or cross examining, I already have their examinations done before trial ever starts. Okay? Because you see, if you put something off, well, then maybe something else comes up, and now you’re in a jam, and you can’t get done, or you can’t get your best work done. So I just don’t believe in delay, I believe in preparation. And it may be that I just hate to lose.


Steve Fretzin  [11:24]

I’m getting that feeling. I don’t I don’t, I’m picking up on something. But you know, what’s the point, but how about on the marketing side, because it’s not just about, you know, the prep for court and the prep for, you know, the deposition, all that there’s also the, you know, you mentioned about, you know, getting ahead on the articles about press releases about and you’ve been a very aggressive marketer from what I can see. I mean, I’ve seen so I saw some videos that were, you know, outrageous, not bad, outrageous, like I’ve seen with, you know, people slamming hammers into things and all that. But it was pretty, like funny, cute, you know, but like, you know, entertaining, but But you put yourself out there in some ways that other lawyers probably wouldn’t.


Dan Callahan  [12:05]

Right? Well, so the marketing, what I recommend people do is they can write an article, get it published somewhere, just keep doing that, because your name has to be named has to come to mind when somebody says, I need a lawyer wonder who I should call. And you want your name to be coming up first. Yeah. So you do that you also do speeches, right? So I have put together seminars on trial practice, and I get the best trial lawyers in Southern California. And lo and behold, I put myself on one of the panels, so who have not had that happen. So whoever’s there in charge. Thanks for it. Well, this guy is good. This guy’s good. Oh, he must be right. Yeah. That’s before I had any of these really huge verdicts and settlements. Okay. I got myself out there out there. Out there. Yeah. You mentioned some funny videos. Yeah. That now with Callaghan consulting. Okay. And Callaghan consulting, I must have about 15 or 20 of these videos. For the first one minute is like a spoof on the Magnum PI. Magnum P.


Steve Fretzin  [13:15]

Yeah. That was it for those under 40. You don’t even know what that is. But Magnum P, I was like this awesome. 80s TV show with Tom Selleck running around in sports cars and smoking cigars and helicopters. It was awesome,


Dan Callahan  [13:27]

right? So I have that kind of allegiance. It’s really interesting. I’m doing that for Kelly and consulting. If anybody wants to go ahead and look at those just so good at Kelly and consulting.com. And you’ll see him in the first one or two minutes of me doing something like jumping out of a plane, you know, riding on top of a train. Then there’s five minutes of law, you talking about some subject of law? Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [13:54]

And now you’ve seen some changes being in the industry for a while, you know, marketing, business development, with automation with technology. You’ve seen some changes, what have you seen as kind of the biggest change that you that you’ve had to deal with in in the way that lawyers build and market law practices? And how did you adjust to that or adapt to that?


Dan Callahan  [14:14]

Well, initially, when I was practicing, there’s kind of a taboo about advertising, right? You have your name on the side of a building, you know, you can do a press release, but you don’t really do an ad in a magazine, let alone radio or TV, right billboard or billboards, which is huge words or bust. You know, my signs. Yeah. But now it’s more the public is more open to that. So I regularly put an ad in a couple of different journals. The Orange County Business Journal is the one I mentioned before I do that, and also the local bar magazine. So other lawyers can pick about me I need I get a lot of referrals from other lawyers, right, but if they can’t remember my name, they’re unlikely to call me up. So I think it’s important to have your name front and center at all times with your clients as well and with your clients, here’s something people should really pay attention to. They spend a lot of time marketing to get a new client, and not enough time to secure the relationship with an existing client. Now, so you really need to communicate often and thoroughly with your existing clients about the status of their matters, because they then will refer you to their friends and colleagues. And you grow your business by referrals, not just referrals from another lawyer, but referrals from your own clients. In fact, your own client may have another case, and rather give it to somebody else because he’s unhappy with your communication skills. He gives it to you.


Steve Fretzin  [15:53]

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Jordan Ostroff  [16:29]

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Steve Fretzin  [16:52]

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Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [16:56]

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Steve Fretzin  [17:09]

I did not know that. That’s a lot of business going away right there. Let’s cut to the chase. What are you prepared to do for my listeners?


Stephanie Vaughn Jones  [17:16]

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Steve Fretzin  [17:29]

Very cool. Thanks, Dan. I’ll take it a step further. I mean, in some of my listeners have heard me say this before, but when I interview attorneys all over the country to understand kind of where they are and where they want to go with their law practices. And I’m asking all these questions. And sure enough, it’s like I find a huge pile of money that’s just sitting in front of them, because they’re out networking, or they may be doing presentations and things like that. But they’re not leveraging and harnessing the work they’ve already put into their existing clients to their existing network. They’re not leveraging their cross marketing opportunities when they’ve got a client that does, you know, m&a work, probably has a ton of litigation probably has a ton of IP, all this stuff. And they’re not thinking about it from a more global perspective. So I’m big into low hanging fruit and in trying to figure out where we can get business in the least amount of time, least amount of effort, and it’s usually around existing relationships and clients.


Dan Callahan  [18:26]

He they could not agree with you more. That’s very important. And while you’re talking, I thought of another thing that people can do. So I have my own specialties, which are business litigation, personal injury, and insurance, bad faith. Well, there’s a lot that’s outside of that. So I have a list of attorneys that I have agreements with referral fee agreements. And if something comes in, and I don’t do it, read it and say I don’t do it, I can direct them over to one of the attorneys I have on my list who has that as a specialty, and receive a referral fee. Write the referral fee, it could be 10% from it’s an hourly matter, it could be as much as 25 or a third of the fee if it’s a contingency matter. So there’s silver right there you go for the gold, but don’t forget the silver.


Steve Fretzin  [19:17]

I like that I think could be the that could be the quote of the show. And that I could do but Dan Callahan right under it. Are you better than Teddy? And so what I’m trying to tell you, yeah, so okay, we can change it just saying Just saying. Um, so I do want to ask you, though, because you’ve gotten such, as you mentioned earlier, such massive verdicts Is that all you need to have to be successful in getting business is like do those sort of speak for themselves? Do you have to share that information? How does how does winning big verdicts get in promote and develop more business?


Dan Callahan  [19:53]

Well, you got to get the word out. You can’t just live underneath the rock.


Steve Fretzin  [19:56]

Okay, so you get a big verdict and then it just kind of goes away and no one hears about it, that’s probably not good. Not good. Okay. But some attorneys are feel like I’m not embarrassed but like, they don’t want to like, the I don’t know what the the issue is they put me in some instances, they don’t want to, you know, promote a when maybe the client wouldn’t appreciate it if they got to talk to the client at a time to say, Is this okay? But maybe it’s you know, but how do you kind of play that out in a way that’s classy and also good from a marketing


Dan Callahan  [20:25]

perspective? I think if you have a when your client is very happy, your client is not object to the word going out. Yeah. And usually you send it to publications by press release, to people that would be interested in that particular result. In that particular case. You also can do press conferences, when I won the Nerea case for $50 million. I did a press conference. And that was great. So while did on television, and it was just it was perfect. And then, well, here’s something for you. I just thought, Okay, so remember that night or $34 million verdict


Steve Fretzin  [21:02]

I brings about the jury


Dan Callahan  [21:05]

at about 3pm in the afternoon. And I talked to the judge the judge, let’s not read the verdict today. But let’s talk about us opportunity to talk about settlement. I will read it in the morning. Also, we had four alternates, and they didn’t know their officers you till you pick their name out of the hat. So let’s let them come on back and be part of the reading of the verdict. He agreed. What I did, I did not want the news to come out at three o’clock in the afternoon that has some reporter just throw something together. And there it is. Because then it’s yesterday’s news, you know, you’re right about it. So in that what I did, I went back to my office, I put out a press release. Big verdict coming in in the morning, the courtroom was packed with reporters. And when they announced it, they stopped trading on both Technicolor stock and Flextronics stock, both publicly traded companies. But now all these reporters were in the courtroom, they had all day to write really good stories, I had all the time in the world to give them the information. So it’s really a well publicized results. Not just something somebody threw against the wall, right?


Steve Fretzin  [22:19]

Alright, so that day happens. There’s news everywhere. It’s a crazy, you know, the amount of amount of press. Now, it’s a week later, a month later a year later? How are you leveraging that when even today you’re talking about it on my show? You know, you’ve got it up on your website? Or what else are you doing to make sure that doesn’t fizzle out? Because that’s a big, that’s a big deal. Well, I


Dan Callahan  [22:42]

have an ad, couple newspapers, our primary mag, and it will say, you know, achieve the highest jury verdict in Orange County history, achieve the highest personal injury settlement United States history, and we’ll say, obtain the highest insurance, bad faith judgment, Orange County history, obtained the highest employment, litigation, judgment in Orange County history. So they’re all there. Every time they see my ad, they’re also going to see all these victories. So it’s,


Steve Fretzin  [23:14]

I got I got an interesting question for you. I’m coming up with stuff as you’re talking. So the lawyers that refer you, are they thinking about the big verdict and how you’re going to help their client and they might get the fee share and all that? Or are they are they referring you for that? Because of those big verdicts? are they referring you because of the relationship you’ve developed with them? And they like you and know that you’re a good successful attorney? Or is it a mix?


Dan Callahan  [23:40]

It’s a mix, and I would say about 20% comes from attorneys that know me. Okay. Right. And then, let’s say 75 80%, comes from attorneys. I don’t know, but they know me. Yeah. Okay, then they can think Well, I can refer this case to Dan Callahan. And the likelihood is he’s going to do pretty well on it. Because the insurance companies are afraid of him, he’s likely to get a good settlement. And his referral fee is going to be higher if he goes through me versus somebody else. Right, right. Yeah. And ultimately,


Steve Fretzin  [24:16]

is it the winds that build the practice where people want to come and work at your firm and that you’re getting all these referrals and stuff? Or do you feel like it’s a lot of the of the of the hard work and sweat that you put in building building up to that point, or is it a combination?


Dan Callahan  [24:30]

It’s hard work and sweat? Anybody in my office? I outwork everybody. Yeah. And one thing I need to know is I’m in trial, I’m preparing. And I’ll go ahead and call my paralegal at 930 and he’s not there. But at 930 in the evening, what Where did he go? unwritten rule? Nobody leaves before I leave. Oh, okay. Yeah. And I, you know, work until 10am. it’d be able to get some sleep and come back and do it again the next day. Right? I work hard. Yeah. And that’s what it’s all about. Nobody hands you anything? Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [25:10]

The people, the people, but to people that your firm Dan firms, they know going into the job interview or going into the taking the job that they can’t have the same level of balance that they’re going to get at a mid market, you know, business firm where they’re, they’re leaving at five o’clock.


Dan Callahan  [25:25]

That’s true, but this is only during times of trial


Steve Fretzin  [25:29]

during times of trial. Okay. Okay. So it’s not all it’s not all hands on deck every minute. It’s though, when there’s a big thing coming up. Okay.


Dan Callahan  [25:35]

Yeah, if I’m preparing for trial, and I need to get this all together, in trial, and I come back, they have to be there for me. Nope. I, I had this one case, it was an employment case, we represented Rico electronics. And when they’re being sued, one of the plaintiffs said he was discriminated against based on national origin. He said he suffered emotional distress. And he said, he felt like he was in a white room with no doors or windows. I know. I know that. That’s, that’s out of The Twilight Zone. So I have an e to the video store and got all the jackets, all the videos. And were there it was, I felt like I was in a white room and no doors or windows. So then I go back over the weekend. I go back on Monday. So I remember correctly, where we left off on Friday. You said you belly suffered emotional distress, and the jury can see I got the jacket in my hand. And you said it felt like you were in a white room with no doors or windows. That’s right. Are you a big Twilight Zone fan? And is right here on the jacket? What? The jury went crazy. Oh my god, it kind of blew him up. Yeah, yeah, if I had to prepare for another examination, if I hadn’t done all my preparation in advance, I wouldn’t have been able to spin off on that little jaunt. Right? It’s different. Right? So you really don’t know what’s going to come up. So you don’t put things off till tomorrow. You get it done now. Yeah. It also gives you time if you do something you do your first draft, you’re not happy with it. Again, time to redo it. You know, amend it, whatever the case may be. So I guess you’re starting to get preparation is what it’s all about. For me. Yeah. And


Steve Fretzin  [27:22]

I don’t think you’re you’re much for procrastination is kind of what I’m picking up on. It could be Yeah, Natalie. Alright, so we’re gonna wrap up with we’re gonna wrap up if that’s okay, with a couple of just like, additional tips that you would advise attorneys on, especially ones that are maybe, you know, a couple years out coming up in the world. And then we’ll we’ll conclude with with your game changing book, but kind of two or three, just quick tips of like, you know, Hey, everybody, this is what you really got to do these days.


Dan Callahan  [27:49]

Well, of course, I won’t beat a dead horse and tell you more about preparation. You have to actually think outside the box. You can’t go marching through the CCP and just do it that way. You’ve got to take a look at something. For example. I had this one case Ramco versus diamond walnut. And my client was from Arizona who wanted to get a mechanic’s lien in California. And he calls me and says he’s not getting paid. How do I get a mechanic’s lien? So did you serve your 20? day notice before you sent the product, but 20 day notice? Okay, well, how about this? Can you go there? These are 55 gallon drums of urethane foam. Who would go on a roof? Can you go there, pick up the drums, put them in your truck, drive around the block, then drop off again and then serve a 20 day notice? And he said no and other locked up? All right. So I thought about it that when he told me that he was selling it to MidState who could not pay their bills when do so I remember the UCC has a provision that you can demand the return the possession of those goods from somebody who bought them on credit, while insolvent. If you do you take in constructive possession of the goods. So I got constructive possession of the goods. I then send it to a notice and I released constructor possession, but they never left the warehouse. Right? Well, I’m gonna well not that this crazy. eyes don’t pay do not pay MidState Well, they did. And then they want to pay in me too. So they had to pay twice. You know, I could give you all kinds of stories about what you do outside the box. Yeah.


Steve Fretzin  [29:32]

So now it sounds like you’re doing a lot of stuff outside the box. And, and I appreciate it so much. But so let’s talk about your game changing book. It’s good to great which is sort of a famous, how do I build my business, you know, in making it better than the average book. So talk about that book and kind of how that you know that benefited you. And once you kind of thought about it.


Dan Callahan  [29:55]

There’s only one one real point that hit me pretty hard in that work. And that is when you have people in your office and they’re working. But they’re not really doing a quality job, you have to make a very tough decision to get them off the bus. And that’s the language in the book. So I had a meeting with my senior attorneys, and I made them all, gave them all a copy of the book, read the book, come back to me with your ideas. And the ideas are, there’s a couple of people that just did not have the mindset that I have, or my senior attorneys have about getting it all done getting it done, right. So you just have to ask them to move on, they can find another firm, that works better for them, maybe that’ll even be an eye opener for them to adjust their behavior. Yeah, but that’s a tip I got from that book.


Steve Fretzin  [30:49]

And there’s a big a big, obviously, an issue right now going on with, you know, quiet quitting. And, and the newer generations younger generations coming up, they’re looking for more and more balance, more and more they want to, you know, win the game before it’s played and sort of, you know, feeling of entitlement. And I don’t want to go down a whole rabbit hole. But it sounds like that’s not going to play in some firms in yours on the list.


Dan Callahan  [31:15]

Yeah, probably not. Because I believe in results. i My job is to do my best job for my client. And if I feel I’m not doing it, I can’t run away from myself, I will always kick myself in the butt. I have to do everything I can. And it’s just the way I’m the way I am. You have to do everything.


Steve Fretzin  [31:36]

But you have to have the team around you that’s built like you so that you can, you know, work this in a way that you’re gonna get results in, you’re gonna be happy. You gotta have the right people on the bus is what you’re,


Dan Callahan  [31:47]

yeah, you’re right. You’re right. Okay, right now, the people that I have here, we have 28 attorneys, and 60% of them had been with maybe you 75%. And with me longer than 10 years. Yeah. Several had been with me over 20 years. Yeah. And so they like it here. It’s a good experience for them. And they’re better lawyers for it. Nice. If people want


Steve Fretzin  [32:13]

to get in touch with you to learn more about Callahan consulting, or to you know, just understand what you’re doing, what’s the best way for them to find you? Well, Callahan


Dan Callahan  [32:23]

consulting.com and my email is Dan at Callahan. consulting.com, I would tell him consulting does two things. One, it consults with attorneys, and advises them on strategy and whatnot. And the other is, if a client needs to find a lawyer in Philadelphia, who specializes in one area of the law, so I can go ahead and I can vet, the attorneys in the community that specialize in that area. And I will go ahead and give two or three names to the client. And then I will get on the phone with the client and call those lawyers after having vetted them already, then the client will decide if he wants to retain one of those attorneys. And if so which one? Yeah. So that’s a services Kellyanne consulting provides.


Steve Fretzin  [33:12]

Yeah, that’s beautiful. So you’re not only helping lawyers, but you’re you’re making sure that you’re, you know, connecting lawyers around the country to accomplish whatever they need to accomplish.


Dan Callahan  [33:22]

Right. I’ve been practicing law firm for over 40 years, right. And I have met a lot of really good lawyers. And I know of a lot of really good lawyers in various communities. So I can rely on that. But also you just look at the normal sources, and then follow up on it.


Steve Fretzin  [33:40]

Well, Dan, thanks so much, man. This was fantastic. So much information, so much knowledge, experience, success. I really just appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your wisdom. And, you know, I hope to have you back sometime soon. And maybe we can continue the dialogue.


Dan Callahan  [33:55]

Steve, love to do it. Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate the opportunity. Yeah,


Steve Fretzin  [34:00]

absolutely. And hey, thank you everybody for spending some time with Dan and I today. You know, listen, if you can’t get a couple of good ideas and takeaways from this show, then forget it. Go listen to something else now. But if you liked the show, give us a nice thumbs up or a five stars on whatever you know platform you’re on. But you know again, it’s all about helping you be that lawyer someone who’s competent, organized in a skilled Rainmaker. Take care everybody be safe and be well we’ll talk again real soon.


Narrator  [34:30]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website fretzin.com. For additional information, and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes